Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Why? If the political will was there these things would be achievable.
2hats
Dust.
The signals of primary, secondary and tertiary COVID-19 related deaths are clear to see in the data.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not a lie. It won't happen cos cunts. But it's not a lie.Those z scores don’t look good, I agree. The cause will be multi factorial, and clearly some of the factors contributing to the variation will have been modifiable by Government decisions.
And ftr I don’t doubt that the right-wing position on the economy-mortality sliding scale tilts towards the ‘herd-immunity and back at work’ end. I’m just not convinced the far left ‘absolutely everyone stay at home until there’s no covid or a vaccine’ stance is any more sensible.
The idea that anything whatsoever can be funded by scrapping trident or taxing billionaires is a comforting lie (and useful in an argument n all).
fwiw I don't think everyone stay home till there's no covid at all. But not forcing people back to work before you've got it under control (and the UK still doesn't really have it under control) is rather sensible, no? Some kind of planning, perhaps, for the return to work? 'Go to work but don't use public transport if possible, and best of British!' doesn't really constitute a plan.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Are people actually saying that though? I think it's ok for stuff to open again provided it's safe but I'm not convinced that for many workplaces it will be, and the government help has been woefully inadequate so far so I don't blame people for going back.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I don't blame people for going back to work at all. And in effect, my guess is that this won't actually change very much. But this is all about reducing the furlough money. And they've left people to work out how to cope with that for themselves.
That’s interesting with respect to the PPE debate:
- Healthcare workers, including those with jobs such as doctors and nurses, were not found to have higher rates of death involving COVID-19 when compared with the rate among those whose death involved COVID-19 of the same age and sex in the general population.
It’s also an argument for the safe use of public transport if adequate protection was available maybe?
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Richard Burge, Chief Executive of the London Chamber of Commerce, on Sky News has said their members have been advised not to re-open, as there's not enough guidelines, and also what's the point in re-opening if there's no business to do.
That's embarrassing for the government.
That's embarrassing for the government.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Given they'll all inevitably contain pinch-points where people won't be able to keep 2m apart, and touch-points which are hotspots for transmission, I don't think any workplaces will be 'safe' whilst the virus is circulating; rather, some will be more or less risky. That risk can be mitigated to some extent, but, ultimately it comes down to an appetite to accept that risk. This government is willing to accept the risk to workers' lives, to protect the interests of those it truly represents i.e. the owners of capital. The idea that we need to do this for 'the economy' is bullshit; we are the economy - all value had been created by workers. If we can't generate more at present, then how about we user some if that which is stored in wealth?!
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Not all healthcare workers will be treating Covid patients.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That will be replicated across the country, no doubt. And the government is banking on that being the case. They want everybody else to lead.
Athos
Well-Known Member
The fact that they're 'only' dying at the same rate as others the government has failed to protect is hardly something positive.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
A lot of manufacturers continued in the lockdown. Many doubled their shifts with the same workforce spread over the extra hours which halved the numbers at work at any one point in time. This allowed them to achieve social distancing.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
All entirely predictable. Businesses, especially retailers, will be able to do the maths of vastly reduced footfall + risk of PR disaster + normal running costs = bad idea to reopen. Even if they can get their staff to show up.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Guy I play football with is seemingly off to play cricket this morning. Am I being stupid or is that... really stupid?
He also took a photo of himself sitting at the wheel of his mate's car, with his mate in the passenger seat.
I just...
He also took a photo of himself sitting at the wheel of his mate's car, with his mate in the passenger seat.
I just...
little_legs
Поехали!
I don't think that is the far left stance tbh. I think if the infection rate was low enough for contact tracing etc to be effective (and a contact tracing system actually up and running), if there was sufficient PPE available, if if was possible to travel to and from work safely, there'd be a lot less opposition. As it is, reopening now, loosening restrictions now, makes the suspicion many people have had all along - that the government policy remains herd immunity, with the controls being used only to make sure the NHS isn't overwhelmed - look like it's true.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I bet not everyone was 2m apart all the time, and I'm certain they were touching surfaces without cleaning in between e.g. door handles.
Maybe not for you
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Boris Johnson is going to become the legal precedent for the existence of a level of stupidity that constitutes a crime in itself.
Guy I play football with is seemingly off to play cricket this morning. Am I being stupid or is that... really stupid?
He also took a photo of himself sitting at the wheel of his mate's car, with his mate in the passenger seat.
I just...
Yep. Stupid... Him, I mean.
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clicker
nanook rubs it....
He appears to have watched an online tutorial in 'how to speech'...not one 'er', clenched fists, combed barnet and he even remembered (rather lately) to drop his tone level to insinuate personal concern.
However, subject wise it was embarrassing. It didn't need to happen yesterday and shouldn't have until it had some actual content. If clarity is on the agenda today, he should have held fire on the speech. It should have been live and it should have been followed by a Press q and a.
However, subject wise it was embarrassing. It didn't need to happen yesterday and shouldn't have until it had some actual content. If clarity is on the agenda today, he should have held fire on the speech. It should have been live and it should have been followed by a Press q and a.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Not for anyone; a positive would be no avoidable deaths.
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
No briefing today apparently. He's doing a Q&A with the public instead (looks like straightforward questions directed to Number 10 today, so presumably just cherry picked ones, too). Not clear whether this will be the new thing.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Wow. That's way busier than I would have imagined.
That's where we have an information vacuum. How many people caught c19 pre-lockdown on busy public transport. How do we avoid that happening again? How many are catching it now? How dangerous are different kinds of transport - buses/trains/tube? Which mitigation methods are the most effective? These are the kinds of things we need to understand before we return to this kind of picture.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Full-on democratic avoidance. That's the kind of thing a dictatorship does.
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
Yeah, I'm just speechless - but not, iykwim. You keep thinking you can't get any angrier...
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Why?<snip>
The idea that anything whatsoever can be funded by scrapping trident or taxing billionaires is a comforting lie (and useful in an argument n all
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