Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Orang Utan]

Is omnishambles in the OED yet? Cos it definitely should be this year

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I don't see how you can coordinate the 10% thing without controls on who turns up and when (which they're not going to get). Once you've got a crowd at the station of people looking to get to work you're fucked. You can limit the number of people getting on but that crowd is still somewhere and they're not able to social distance. There's no point limiting the actual travellers if you've got a massive crowd on the platform/behind the barriers/in front of the station gates.

 

[elbows]

I've been mostly waiting for more detail before commenting, and it sounds like the 50 page document is out. I dont have time to look yet, but from what the BBC have said it sounds like the face covering advice is indeed in there.

 

[Sue]

I don't see how you can coordinate the 10% thing without controls on who turns up and when (which they're not going to get). Once you've got a crowd at the station of people looking to get to work you're fucked. You can limit the number of people getting on but that crowd is still somewhere and they're not able to social distance. There's no point limiting the actual travellers if you've got a massive crowd on the platform/behind the barriers/in front of the station gates.

And good luck with people changing from one tube line to another.

 

[elbows]

Oh apparently its 60 pages.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

 

[jakethesnake]

This short piece is spot on I think

 

[LDC]

Oh apparently its 60 pages.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884171/FINAL_6.6637_CO_HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

Some light reading. Bang goes my afternoon.

 

[clicker]

I don't see how you can coordinate the 10% thing without controls on who turns up and when (which they're not going to get). Once you've got a crowd at the station of people looking to get to work you're fucked. You can limit the number of people getting on but that crowd is still somewhere and they're not able to social distance. There's no point limiting the actual travellers if you've got a massive crowd on the platform/behind the barriers/in front of the station gates.

The 60 page doc specifies now that social distancing won't be possible on public transport. So you make a mask out of an old t shirt and launch yourself down the Northern Line. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[belboid]

I've been mostly waiting for more detail before commenting, and it sounds like the 50 page document is out. I dont have time to look yet, but from what the BBC have said it sounds like the face covering advice is indeed in there.

yup, face covering, not masks, which are for proper people only!

"the Government is now advising that people should aim to wear a face-covering in enclosed spaces where social distancing is not always possible and they come into contact with others that they do not normally meet, for example on public transport or in some shops."

Clear as shit then

 

[prunus]

It occurs to me that the messaging behind 'stay alert' (eg Stay alert by staying at home as much as possible,, by limiting contact with other people, etc etc (as per No.10 twitter)) pretty much makes sense in the context of a follow on message from the single 'stay home' if you reframe it as 'don't drop your guard'. 'Stay alert' and 'don't drop your guard' are similar in meaning - I wonder if what we're seeing is the result of a marketing-speak brainstorm on the message 'don't drop your guard' warping it to 'stay alert' (with its continuity of the 'stay...' message - possibly via 'stay on your guard'), without proper consideration that it in fact breaks the sense when linked with eg stay at home as much as possible. If the committee (and I'm sure it was) responsible for this decided that 'stay alert' == 'don't drop your guard' (which it does in some semantic settings) they might not have noticed that the identity doesn't carry through to all settings - this can happen all too easily in 'brainstorming' sessions - things get 'set' early on that drive the direction of thinking and don't get properly examined in the light of the eventual results.

Just an idea. Try it though - put 'don't drop your guard' in place of 'stay alert' in all the official communiques, I think it works.

 

[elbows]

I'm just giving it an initial partial skim at the moment.

Those in the clinically extremely vulnerable cohort will continue to be advised to shield themselves for some time yet, and the Government recognises the difficulties this brings for those affected. Over the coming weeks, the Government will continue to introduce more support and assistance for these individuals so that they have the help they need as they stay shielded. And the Government will bring in further measures to support those providing the shield - for example, continuing to prioritise care workers for testing and protective equipment.

Thats from page 22.

 

[Sprocket.]

So pleased I am being shielded by these geniuses.

 

[elbows]

SAGE advise that the risk of infection outside is significantly lower than inside, so the Government is updating the rules so that, as well as exercise, people can now also spend time outdoors subject to: not meeting up with any more than one person from outside your household; continued compliance with social distancing guidelines to remain two metres (6ft) away from people outside your household; good hand hygiene, particularly with respect to shared surfaces; and those responsible for public places being able to put appropriate measures in place to follow the new COVID-19 Secure guidance.

People may drive to outdoor open spaces irrespective of distance, so long as they respect social distancing guidance while they are there, because this does not involve contact with people outside your household.

When travelling to outdoor spaces, it is important that people respect the rules in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and do not travel to different parts of the UK where it would be inconsistent with guidance or regulations issued by the relevant devolved administration.

From page 27.

 

[planetgeli]

Is omnishambles in the OED yet? Cos it definitely should be this year

I think with the move from 'stay home' to 'stay alert' it could be argued we are moving into the world of metashambles.

 

[maomao]

There's an ice cream van in my street

 

[elbows]

Second, the Government will require all international arrivals not on a short list of exemptions to self-isolate in their accommodation for fourteen days on arrival into the UK. Where international travellers are unable to demonstrate where they would self-isolate, they will be required to do so in accommodation arranged by the Government. The Government is working closely with the devolved administrations to coordinate implementation across the UK.

These international travel measures will not come into force on 13 May but will be introduced as soon as possible. Further details, and guidance, will be set out shortly, and the measures and list of exemptions will be kept under regular review.

From page 29. I will stop with the mini quoting frenzy for now, might do a little bit more later.

 

[elbows]

There's an ice cream van in my street

I started to hear the local one round here (midlands town) last week. Including during the 8pm Thursday clap.

 

[Cid]

elbows have you seen any updates on community/serology tests? I mean from the POV of establishing spread through the population.

 

[platinumsage]

There's an ice cream van in my street

Neither food delivery nor food takeway businesses have ever been asked to close.

 

[maomao]

Neither food delivery nor food takeway businesses have ever been asked to close.

It hasn't been in at least two months. Not even when it was 23 degrees. Now there's half a dozen people queueing on the coldest day of the month so far.

 

[SpookyFrank]

elbows have you seen any updates on community/serology tests? I mean from the POV of establishing spread through the population.

I haven't found anything and I have been keeping an eye out. Last I heard they were moving to the community testing phase having got their testing protocol sorted, but that requires a cohort of randomly selected test subjects (16-20,000 was the number they were giving) and that those test subjects be tested at intervals over an extended period of time. Then everything needs to be analysed properly. It's not a quick process.

I'd actually rather get some solid information a month from now than some hints of this that or the other tomorrow. Particularly if policy is going to hinge on these results, which it absolutely should.

 

[editor]

Nice'n'cosy does it

Healthcare firm advised by Owen Paterson won £133m coronavirus testing contract unopposed

Randox Laboratories hired as part of Matt Hancock’s promise to carry out 100,000 tests a day

www.theguardian.com

 

[kebabking]

The new plan/guidance says that junior schools will (hopefully) start to go back from 1st June, for Y6, Y1 and reception, with phased introduction of the other years after that - however it states that this is down to headteachers discretion based on staffing and facilities available. Chris Mason, BBC news political correspondent, says that he's been told that if parents of those kids are uncomfortable with kids going back before September they will not be fined for non-attendance.

 

[SpookyFrank]

From page 27.

Coppers throughout the land will be pissed off that they can no longer spend all day 'guarding' the nation's beauty spots and still get paid.

 

[elbows]

elbows have you seen any updates on community/serology tests? I mean from the POV of establishing spread through the population.

I skipped quite a lot of daily press conferences in the last few weeks, and thats where occasional references to this sort of thing were sometimes made.

I'm pretty sure they started a version or two of this stuff some weeks ago now. Mostly of the 'survey' type, and also cohort studies. So not really intended to give individuals their results, but to monitor the situation in different places and circumstances over time. I dont know what format, if any, they will choose to share that data with the public in. The fact that in weeks gone by the likes of Vallance have sometimes given very vague estimates of the proportion of the public already infected so far (single digits or low teens) suggests they've had data on this front for some time, and whats likely changed in more recent weeks is a greater quality and quantity of such data. If any of it is public, I havent found it yet, but I havent really been looking as I found it increasingly hard to keep up with everything and needed a bit of a break. And some of the survey stuff they started doing recently is to have more timely ways to estimate R, but I presume these will also include the swab tests for current infections, as serology would be too laggy to help with estimates of R very recently.

Large serology study test results have really been the big, cruel tease for me during this pandemic, since at different points people from orgs like the WHO and from the UK government (eg John Newton and others going on about Porton Down) made it sound like I would get to see some numbers within weeks. But all I've mostly heard since is more 'soon' or silence or vague stuff. Still, as time has gone on some of the gaps globally have slowly started to be filled, there have been studies from specific locations in various countries, mostly tending to point in the same direction, with results mostly on the low end of things and nowhere even vaguely close to the high levels that some shits wanted to see to justify their anti-lockdown, pro herd-immunity stances. But I need to be careful that this picture so far does not set in my mind as some kind of absolute truth, I'm always eager for data that may change the understanding of reality.

Perhaps 2hats could say something more about this?

 

[baldrick]

The new plan/guidance says that junior schools will (hopefully) start to go back from 1st June, for Y6, Y1 and reception, with phased introduction of the other years after that - however it states that this is down to headteachers discretion based on staffing and facilities available. Chris Mason, BBC news political correspondent, says that he's been told that if parents of those kids are uncomfortable with kids going back before September they will not be fined for non-attendance.

I expect a lot of parents will not send their kids in to school if they can possibly avoid it tbh. I don't see what has changed in terms of reduced danger since schools have closed. The govt say it's ok - why? The only reason is childcare for people who can't work from home. Social distancing is IMPOSSIBLE in primary school.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Fines are being increased from £60 to £100, doubling with every ticket to a maximum of £3200.

 

[little_legs]

Coppers throughout the land will be pissed off that they can no longer spend all day 'guarding' the nation's beauty spots and still get paid.

Just gonna stay alert for our new robot dog overlords here.

 

[Spandex]

Coppers throughout the land will be pissed off that they can no longer spend all day 'guarding' the nation's beauty spots and still get paid.

I saw a great bit of policing while out on my walk yesterday. A bloke was sat on a bench really obviously smoking a big, smelly skunk spliff. A police officer is walking along and sees him. She walks r e a l l y slowly round in front of him to give him a chance to notice her. He doesn't. She carrys on walking towards him even slower. You could see on her face she didn't want to deal with him and just wanted him to notice her. He still didn't. She slowed to a comically slow walk towards him. Finally he looks up, nearly jumps out of his skin, stubs his spliff out, nods and waves at her and goes on his way

 

[Cid]

Just gonna stay alert for our new robot dog overlords here.

The mechanical Hound slept but did not sleep, lived but did not live in its gently humming, gently vibrating, softly illuminated kennel back in a dark corner of the fire house. The dim light of one in the morning, the moonlight from the open sky framed through the great window, touched here and there on the brass and copper and the steel of the faintly trembling beast. Light flickered on bits of ruby glass and on sensitive capillary hairs in the nylon-brushed nostrils of the creature that quivered gently, its eight legs spidered under it on rubber padded paws.
Nights when things got dull, which was every night, the men slid down the brass poles, and set the ticking combinations of the olfactory system of the hound and let loose rats in the fire house areaway. Three seconds later the game was done, the rat caught half across the areaway, gripped in gentle paws while a four-inch hollow steel needle plunged down from the proboscis of the hound to inject massive jolts of morphine or procaine.