Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[chilango]

Monday's briefing:

 

[little_legs]

How to mismanage a crisis.

Special Report: In shielding its hospitals from COVID-19, Britain left many of the weakest exposed

On a doorstep in the suburbs of north London, three-year-old Ayse picked up a tissue to wipe away her grandmother's tears - tears for one more victim of the virus.

www.reuters.com

The gerontricide party doesn't even care if they die comfortably.

RCGP calls on Home Secretary to 'urgently relax' rules on controlled medication for patients at the end of life during COVID-19

 

[little_legs]

Also, it's 10 years ago today the British people placed butchers in charge of their lives. Congrats.

 

[elbows]

How to mismanage a crisis.

Special Report: In shielding its hospitals from COVID-19, Britain left many of the weakest exposed

On a doorstep in the suburbs of north London, three-year-old Ayse picked up a tissue to wipe away her grandmother's tears - tears for one more victim of the virus.

www.reuters.com

So much of importance is discussed in that article that I feel a bit bad for zooming in on the following aspect, but I will do so anyway because I havent heard enough about it (and probably missed articles about it at the time) and its long been one of my concerns relating to the 'protect the NHS' approach, and people dying needlessly at home because they werent admitted.

London’s ambulance service also issued new guidance.

Ambulance crews assess patients using a standard scoring system of vital signs. According to the Royal College of Physicians, a professional body for doctors, a patient who scores five or more on a 20-point scale should be provided with clinical care and monitored each hour. A patient scoring five would normally be taken to hospital.

But in early March, London’s ambulance service raised the bar for COVID-19 patients to seven.

“I have never seen a score of seven being used before,” said one NHS paramedic interviewed by Reuters. The medic spoke on condition of anonymity.

On April 10, the required score was lowered to five. In a statement, the London Ambulance Service told Reuters its previous guidance was one of several assessments used and clinical judgment was the deciding factor. Asked if the guidance reflected the national approach, the NHS did not respond.

Possible evidence of restrictions on admissions came in a study of 17,000 patients admitted for COVID-19 to 166 NHS hospitals between February 6 and April 1. The study showed that one-third of these patients died, a high fatality rate.

Calum Semple, the lead author and professor of outbreak medicine at Liverpool University, said, in an interview with Reuters, this indicated, among other things, that England set a “high bar” for hospital admission. “Essentially, only those who are pretty sick get in.” But, he said, there was no data yet on whether that high bar ultimately made people in Britain with COVID-19 worse off. The NHS didn’t comment.

 

[zahir]

'We have had zero information': GPs in the dark over Covid-19 tests

Local authorities and GPs yet to receive detailed data and patient records from Deloitte tests

www.theguardian.com

The results of hundreds of thousands of coronavirus tests carried out at privately run drive-through centres in England have not yet been shared with GPs or local authorities, who complain they have “no idea” where local disease clusters are.

GPs told the Guardian they had been “totally left out of the conversation” after the government said it was still “working on a technical solution” to get Covid-19 test results into individual GP records in England, having promised to do so weeks ago.

When the government began its pillar two testing scheme in late March it promised GPs that results would be linked to the medical records of patients in England.

But Nick Mann, a GP at the Well Street surgery in Hackney, London, is one of many doctors to complain this has not happened. “As a GP I’m absolutely fuming, not only with the way it’s been mishandled but with the unreliable information we are getting,” he said. “This government has developed a completely parallel system in order to bypass the NHS, and it’s failing.”

Dominic Harrison, director of public health at Blackburn with Darwen council in Lancashire, said: “The Deloitte screening programme has now been running for a number of weeks and we have seen no data from that. So I have no idea whether 10, 100 or 1,000 Blackburn with Darwen residents have tested positive.

“I certainly hope they sort that out very very quickly because it is critical information for us in developing the strategy for case finding and contract tracing once the lockdown is lifted..”

 

[elbows]

No pressures on the government for any of their most obvious failings are relieved at all by what has happened to Ferguson.

I forgot about timing and one days front pages when I said that. Partly because I am out of tune with the daily death announcements-based news, because those numbers lag so badly and are out of tune with other sources, so I was not really thinking about the 'most deaths in Europe' stuff. For example if I add the last ONS numbers by date of death for England and Wales to the same numbers for Scotland and Northern Ireland, I get a total of over 32,000 deaths that happened by April 24th. Which makes it hard for me to take figures that havent reached that level 12 days later too seriously. I still have to use them to look at trends in a vaguely timely way, and its not like the ONS data I used for April 24th was actually available then, that version of the data only came out on Tuesday and the Scottish numbers on Wednesday. But all the same, once you see what sort of totals are actually reached on what dates, it makes it hard to treat seriously the headlines based on daily numbers as if the total deaths they state have only just been reached in reality.

 

[scifisam]

Can anyone clarify how the NHS app is supposed to work? Does it really depend on only the first part of your postcode? That'd be pointless for me, given what a huge number of people, and two hospitals, the first part of my postcode covers.

Having to have the phone on and unlocked would mean that any phone thief would have access to everything on your phone.

It's supposed to use bluetooth, but even when I have bluetooth switched on, I only allow known devices to access my phone. Otherwise when I'm out in public I get sent random dick pics. No way am I ever going to open up my bluetooth to unknown devices.

I have tried googling but I'm getting contradictory information.

 

[oryx]

Otherwise when I'm out in public I get sent random dick pics. No way am I ever going to open up my bluetooth to unknown devices.

neither am I having read that.

UK coronavirus tracking app - discussion

I think this is worth a thread of its own - even more so since The Register published their damning critique Britain is sleepwalking into another coronavirus disaster by failing to listen to global consensus and expert analysis with the release of the NHS COVID-19 contact-tracking app. At the...

www.urban75.net

There's a thread on the app, if that's any help?

 

[frogwoman]

Something that's bothering me a lot about COVID-19. In many other events involving needless death of large numbers of people like a terrorist attack or a natural disaster or something you'd have minutes silences ordered by the govt, flags at half mast, memorials announced etc. There doesn't seem to be anything like that with this unless I've missed it. There aren't many details about most of the people who died and I guess it's because there are just so many but it seems really sad and wrong

 

[killer b]

aye, it's totally shit

They're all always total shit. Basically Matt from the Telegraph with a joint and a spraycan.

 

[Raheem]

I heard it mentioned in passing on the news that, having got the app to a stage where it is 'ready to go', they have realised that it will only work on iPhones while the phone is active, because iPhones will only receive and not send Bluetooth if the screen is not alive.

So, it's possibly a useless app.

 

[little_legs]

Something that's bothering me a lot about COVID-19. In many other events involving needless death of large numbers of people like a terrorist attack or a natural disaster or something you'd have minutes silences ordered by the govt, flags at half mast, memorials announced etc. There doesn't seem to be anything like that with this unless I've missed it. There aren't many details about most of the people who died and I guess it's because there are just so many but it seems really sad and wrong

It does not help that the BBC and the rest of the press is failing to cover the pandemic as an emergency. The BBC is basically back to the wartime rules coverage. You go on the BBC's website and what you see is stories like 'I am 23, I hadn't realised Covid-19 can affect me too' or 'Corona virus: I get dressed up every day but have nowhere to go', etc. The general approach seems to be let's not dwell on the daily death rate and government's blunders, instead let's do a bit of public-health messaging and tell the public what is being done about testing. What you get after weeks of this sort of coverage is masses of people desensitized to the horror of covid-19, similar to when soldiers are dying in some distant conflict and you can't quite associate yourself with their deaths because no one talks about their deaths nor the reasons and causes of their deaths.

Life right now feels like two parallel running high speed trains. On one train everyone is dying and on the other people are just longing to arrive somewhere alive. There is a strange sense of cruelty and coldness about people waiting for others to stop dying so they can arrive somewhere to resume their normal lives.

 

[planetgeli]

So the plane from Turkey finally arrives. What a fucking circus.

I presume this was a political stunt a bit like those repatriation flights for asylum seekers where they’d spend a fortune chartering a jet, invite the media along to get it on the front page so it would look like they were doing something. Meanwhile British-made stuff is being exported for lack of orders. Clowns.

Now if only the gowns on board had been of usable quality.

Coronavirus PPE: Gowns ordered from Turkey fail to meet safety standards

More than 2,000 gowns ordered by the UK do not meet British safety standards, the government confirms.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[bimble]

‘ unlimited rambles’ to be announced apparently. Don’t know how much use that is if you live in the middle of a narrow pavemented urban area. Stay home save lives to be ditched in favour of the utterly vague ‘stay safe’.
If this is right then no imminent reopening of shops or outdoor cafes/ beer gardens. I wouldn’t be surprised if garden centres and golf are re opened though.

Picnics and sunbathing on cards as PM expected to allow more time outside

Restrictions to be eased from Monday and ‘Stay Home, Save Lives’ slogan is to be ditched

www.theguardian.com

 

[kabbes]

Rambles are already unlimited as you don’t go more than once. Although various people have tossed around the idea of limiting outdoor activity to an hour, it’s never actually been policy.

 

[cupid_stunt]

How to mismanage a crisis.

Special Report: In shielding its hospitals from COVID-19, Britain left many of the weakest exposed

On a doorstep in the suburbs of north London, three-year-old Ayse picked up a tissue to wipe away her grandmother's tears - tears for one more victim of the virus.

www.reuters.com

Good article and very much in line with what a local care home owner here told us in a Zoom meeting on Wednesday morning, whilst Worthing is still a fairly low risk area, in the bottom 11% of council areas according to the ONS, some local care homes have got cases, these are mainly bigger ones, and most had taken back residents from hospital that weren't showing symptoms, but were not tested. It is suspected they could have brought it onto these homes, but of course they can't say for sure, as it could have been a member of staff. And, of course, PPE has been a problem too.

Her home remains clear of it, it's a fairly small home, she banned visitors about 10 days before being told too, managing video calls instead. She has managed to source enough PPE, including face shields from a local company that has switched their production line to make them, and maintains a 10 day supply of all PPE. All her staff have been supplied with thermometers to check the temperature of themselves & others in their households before starting every shift.

She even stopped the District Nurses coming in to do routine treatments & injections, as both her & her manager are qualified nurses anyway, that caused things to kick off a bit, but she wouldn't back down & finally got the CQC to agree to it.

Luckily she has had no residents in hospital during this period, she was contacted by the hospital in early April asking if she could take any new residents being discharged, she had two spare rooms, but would only take these new residents if they were tested, so that was the end of that conversation.

 

[planetgeli]

Rambles are already unlimited

Not in Wales (I can't speak for England, funny country that place over there).

exercise should be limited to a reasonable period only once a day

COVID-19 alert levels | Sub-topic | GOV.WALES

The restrictions during our gradual move out of lockdown.

gov.wales

 

[cupid_stunt]

I wouldn’t be surprised if garden centres and golf are re opened though.

There's certainly logic in allowing garden centres to re-open, following the social distancing measures used by supermarkets & the DIY sheds.

I know someone that runs the bars & catering at some local sports clubs, he was saying on Wednesday that the golf club is expecting to be allowed to re-open the courses, with various restrictions on the number of players, but they don't expect to be able to open the club house, with the exception of the toilets.

 

[kabbes]

Not in Wales (I can't speak for England, funny country that place over there).

COVID-19 alert levels | Sub-topic | GOV.WALES

The restrictions during our gradual move out of lockdown.

gov.wales

A limit that comprises the idea of “just be reasonable, lads” isn’t really a limit.

 

[bimble]

ffs.

 

[chilango]

So that's all we get in return for going back to work whilst the Pandemic continues?

 

[bimble]

Rambles are already unlimited as you don’t go more than once. Although various people have tossed around the idea of limiting outdoor activity to an hour, it’s never actually been policy.

I thought you were supposed to ramble once a day and close to home , and maybe those are both changing? Looks like national trust likely to reopen its sites (which will be very inconvenient as I’ve gotten used to having the whole place to myself)

 

[purenarcotic]

Something that's bothering me a lot about COVID-19. In many other events involving needless death of large numbers of people like a terrorist attack or a natural disaster or something you'd have minutes silences ordered by the govt, flags at half mast, memorials announced etc. There doesn't seem to be anything like that with this unless I've missed it. There aren't many details about most of the people who died and I guess it's because there are just so many but it seems really sad and wrong

Ive seen loads of pieces on the BBC / ITV about the people who have died (and tbh I hate it; wheeling out newly bereaved people to make them cry on the telly and ask stupid questions like ‘how do you feel?’) , and there was that silence for the NHS workers who died the other week.

 

[Cid]

Not in Wales (I can't speak for England, funny country that place over there).

COVID-19 alert levels | Sub-topic | GOV.WALES

The restrictions during our gradual move out of lockdown.

gov.wales

As with England there's no definition of what a 'reasonable period' is.

 

[weltweit]

As with England there's no definition of what a 'reasonable period' is.

I was sure I recollect an hour for exercise .. is that wrong?

 

[Cid]

I was sure I recollect an hour for exercise .. is that wrong?

I think that came from a er... Gove? speech early on. It wasn't particularly specific, and doesn't carry any real authority.

 

[planetgeli]

As with England there's no definition of what a 'reasonable period' is.

England doesn't use the word 'reasonable'. It says this, which, if anything, is actually more definitive.

You may leave your home to exercise once a day and combine this with walking your dog. When doing this you should minimise the time you are out

National lockdown: Stay at Home

Coronavirus cases are rising rapidly across the country. Find out what you can and cannot do.

www.gov.uk

Which doesn't logically extend to 'unlimited' does it?

 

[Cid]

This is the UK guidance:

17. Is there any time restriction on being outdoors for the purpose of exercise?
There is no limit on how long you can exercise for, but you should spend as short a time away from your home as possible. Stay local if you can and act responsibly at all times. Once you have undertaken exercise, you should go home immediately. Do not linger in public places. For example, after having gone for a run or a cycle, you should not sit down or rest away from your home, unless necessary for health reasons.

 

[frogwoman]

Ive seen loads of pieces on the BBC / ITV about the people who have died (and tbh I hate it; wheeling out newly bereaved people to make them cry on the telly and ask stupid questions like ‘how do you feel?’) , and there was that silence for the NHS workers who died the other week.

Yeah I agree, I just find it weird that there's not more made of it 'officially' etc

 

[Cid]

England doesn't use the word 'reasonable'. It says this, which, if anything, is actually more definitive.

National lockdown: Stay at Home

Coronavirus cases are rising rapidly across the country. Find out what you can and cannot do.

www.gov.uk

Which doesn't logically extend to 'unlimited' does it?

Yeah, I mean we are arguing over semantics here, but there is a lot of latitude in how you interpret the advice. It certainly doesn't stop you going on an 8 hour hike, provided that 8 hour hike is out your door and could be considered reasonable.