Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[treelover]

Gove caught out lying again.

View attachment 204269

So is Gove lying?

good work by Peston, could have done more of it during the GE.

 

[treelover]

UWE Bristol's exhibition centre - (used to be HP's hard drive factory) - is being gutted and prepared to act as a hospital ...

we made HD's?

 

[treelover]

View attachment 204296

What?

"The result showed that 59% of the 1.5 million people who participated and tested positive, noticed a loss of smell and taste."

Surely just 1.5 million who participated. If they tested positive too, then testing is vastly under-reported.

lost smell but not taste, been awhile now, not back yet.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

So what is the issue with getting testing going properly? Beyond 'Johnson/the Government are shit' which is no doubt true but doesn't really explain the situation. I've read a lot about how it isn't happening but I'm not clear what the obstacles are at this point?

 

[keybored]

Doctors being stopped from speaking out.

Doctors claim they have been gagged over protective equipment shortages

Exclusive: Staff on frontline of pandemic warned not to speak out about concerns over lack of protective gear

www.independent.co.uk

This Tweet (and the account that posted it) mysteriously disappeared but it's still in Google cache for now.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8hu5kU0Xsm0J:https://twitter.com/MrBazJ/status/1244536919448596480+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-d

Spoiler: screenshot

 

[weltweit]

It sounds like a lot of SMEs are going to fold, despite the announced government assistance, they are running out of working capital and without invoicing and regular income they can't afford to furlaugh at 80% of salaries.

 

[souljacker]

This Tweet (and the account that posted it) mysteriously disappeared but it's still in Google cache for now.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8hu5kU0Xsm0J:https://twitter.com/MrBazJ/status/1244536919448596480+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-d

Spoiler: screenshot

View attachment 204360

I thought the expiry date issue was sorted a while back? We have loads of mothballed masks that are officially out of date but they were tested and found to still be effective? The date thing was raised very early on in the pandemic as far as I remember.

 

[teqniq]

So is Gove lying?

good work by Peston, could have done more of it during the GE.

It looks like lying to me.

 

[bimble]

This is long but it makes a proper attempt to explain how come Germany is so far ahead of us in testing.

Why is Germany able to test for coronavirus so much more than the UK?

It is now well known that Germany is able to test for coronavirus on a far greater scale than the rest of Europe.

reaction.life

 

[two sheds]

It looks like lying to me.

He opened his mouth you mean?

 

[Raheem]

So what is the issue with getting testing going properly? Beyond 'Johnson/the Government are shit' which is no doubt true but doesn't really explain the situation. I've read a lot about how it isn't happening but I'm not clear what the obstacles are at this point?

Don't know. But I wonder if there's a nervousness about testing NHS workers (they can't start testing and not include NHS workers) and finding that the proption who then have to be sent into self-isolation is so great that it will cause a disaster. So, just maybe, they are stalling while they work out what they can do in that eventuality.

 

[Brainaddict]

I keep feeling uneasy about this phrase 'protect the NHS'. Maybe partly because it's the Tories saying it and the hypocrisy brings up sick in my mouth, but it's more than that. I think I would rather they say 'protect other people'. That's what it really means after all. And there's something weird and weaselly about not saying that, like they assume people don't care about other people but that they do have some warm glow of nationalistic pride about the NHS. I can't help thinking it's because they don't have much genuine empathy themselves, but understand vague feelings of nationalistic pride. So they've decided to talk in that language. I find something horrible about it, but of course it's difficult to criticise because then they can say 'what, you don't want to protect the NHS?'

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I keep feeling uneasy about this phrase 'protect the NHS'. Maybe partly because it's the Tories saying it and the hypocrisy brings up sick in my mouth, but it's more than that. I think I would rather they say 'protect other people'. That's what it really means after all. And there's something weird and weaselly about not saying that, like they assume people don't care about other people but that they do have some warm glow of nationalistic pride about the NHS. I can't help thinking it's because they don't have much genuine empathy themselves, but understand vague feelings of nationalistic pride. So they've decided to talk in that language. I find something horrible about it, but of course it's difficult to criticise because then they can say 'what, you don't want to protect the NHS?'

Tbf their catchphrase does include 'save lives' as the ultimate goal.

Our local council is using 'Protect Key Workers' in place of 'Protect the NHS' btw.

 

[agricola]

I keep feeling uneasy about this phrase 'protect the NHS'. Maybe partly because it's the Tories saying it and the hypocrisy brings up sick in my mouth, but it's more than that. I think I would rather they say 'protect other people'. That's what it really means after all. And there's something weird and weaselly about not saying that, like they assume people don't care about other people but that they do have some warm glow of nationalistic pride about the NHS. I can't help thinking it's because they don't have much genuine empathy themselves, but understand vague feelings of nationalistic pride. So they've decided to talk in that language. I find something horrible about it, but of course it's difficult to criticise because then they can say 'what, you don't want to protect the NHS?'

Its a simple line and its true - we need to wherever possible prevent people getting sick with this. "Protect other people" would be less likely to work; as you say they give the impression of not giving two figs about others and a lot of people seem (at least based on that Friday a couple of weeks ago) that they'd rather have a good time than do that.

I do wish they'd make more of the wartime parallels in the advertising for this though; not in the way that they've been doing but showing what people really did during the Blitz - ie: stay safe in the shelter, not walk around / go to the pub / buy easter eggs whilst the Luftwaffe was overhead.

 

[agricola]

 

[Brainaddict]

Tbf their catchphrase does include 'save lives' as the ultimate goal.

Yeah, they just say 'protect the NHS' much more, and 'save lives' is a more abstract way of putting it I think. The choice to focus on the NHS comes through quite strongly.

And it won't help protect the NHS for people to have warm fuzzy feelings about it - they are not in any way sabotaging their own goal of having the NHS as branding on a lot of privatised services.

 

[weltweit]

Gove has so far been the only Johnson replacement - at the daily press conference - that has been in the least bit animated, the rest are pretty poor examples of public speaking imo. And Gove seems to have mislead us about reagents being in short supply, if Peston is to be believed.

I don't mind the simple slogan, though it was probably thought up by Johnson and Cummins and is therefore best when delivered by Boris.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I thought the expiry date issue was sorted a while back? We have loads of mothballed masks that are officially out of date but they were tested and found to still be effective? The date thing was raised very early on in the pandemic as far as I remember.

Yep, according to my SiS, who used to head up NHS labs, the dates are 'best before' rather than 'use by' dates, and thinks they will be absolutely fine, whilst also wondering WTF they are doing putting new date stickers over the original dates, as if that would fool anyone, and has basically caused paranoia.

 

[planetgeli]

It is about protecting the NHS, about saving healthcare as we know it because that, which we take for granted in our part of the world, is what ultimately makes and keep us 'civilised'. And of course the ultimate end of that is that it saves lives. But we can't save lives without the system to do so. Johnson saying 'protect the NHS' isn't some radical call to arms for socialist healthcare. It's just a genuine need for healthcare. The Italians, Spanish etc etc are all saying the same thing. Because the collapse of the healthcare system would be no fun for 'civilisation'.

The irony of this is 'protect the NHS' while not giving them tests (less than half of one per cent of NHS workers tested so far) and not giving them PPE. Total incompetence.

 

[Cid]

It sounds like a lot of SMEs are going to fold, despite the announced government assistance, they are running out of working capital and without invoicing and regular income they can't afford to furlaugh at 80% of salaries.

Yeah, most of the SMEs near me (joinery, car repairs, shot blasting - general light industry) are just scaling back as best they can, running on skeleton crews and taking the little work there is going. It’s pretty standard to have leasing arrangements in place for machinery etc, on top of rents that have risen over the last few years... So really not sure they have much choice. To be fair to our own landlord, he's cut our rent by 20%, which will help a bit (My workshop is 4 self employed people, but the guys upstairs are a small partnership). We're hoping to get business rates grant, but no guarantee of that, and other stuff is fairly uncertain. So we'll keep working as long as we can.

 

[weltweit]

..
So we'll keep working as long as we can.

I think that is the secret, as long as your customers are still buying, keep working and keep getting paid!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Its a simple line and its true - we need to wherever possible prevent people getting sick with this. "Protect other people" would be less likely to work; as you say they give the impression of not giving two figs about others and a lot of people seem (at least based on that Friday a couple of weeks ago) that they'd rather have a good time than do that.

I do wish they'd make more of the wartime parallels in the advertising for this though; not in the way that they've been doing but showing what people really did during the Blitz - ie: stay safe in the shelter, not walk around / go to the pub / buy easter eggs whilst the Luftwaffe was overhead.

Agree with your first bit. And I also disagree with the idea floated that making people feel fuzzy about the NHS isn't going to undermine plans to privatise it. I think, at the very least, that the govt is going to feel obliged to up health spending considerably after this. Their plans for selling it off become a whole lot more difficult to sell/get away with on the sly, surely.

I totally disagree with your second bit though. This isn't the Blitz. The danger then was to yourself, primarily, if you were out and about, not to others. The Blitz was genuinely terrifying and it took real courage to do the jobs that required staying above ground. Without seeking to downplay the brilliant work being done by key workers at the moment, this is really a whole order of magnitude less than that, and I'm not sure hyperbole is helpful.

 

[gentlegreen]

we made HD's?

Apparently - or at least that's what I was always told ... perhaps they actually assembled far east HDs in network storage solutions ...

 

[DaveCinzano]

£37.5k?!
View attachment 204251

What is that, as a job?

I’ve no idea. Receptionist I thought?

It’s a reception job at the new excel center massive coronavirus hospital isn’t it? So risk money maybe.

Isn't "helpdesk" an IT thing? I've not seen NHS reception jobs advertised as helpdesk roles before.

Yeah it’s weird. Just found the ad and it promises full ppe & sickness benefit as well. No mention of any skills required.

Well, NHS staff (excluding doctors and some senior managers and a few other exceptions, are paid according to the nationally agreed ‘Agenda for Change’ (AfC) framework. Whilst individual job specs throughout the 1.4million-strong workforce may differ, particularly across different sites, services and Trusts, they are meant to match up to national job profiles.

By way of an example: a typical Admin & Clerical job at a busy inner city hospital, in which staff perform both front desk ‘receptionist’ duties, but also back office administration duties...

Spoiler

...admitting, transferring and discharging patients from all wards across the Trust on the Patient Admission System; auditing bed movements; accurately recording cubicle occupancy and liaising with Infection Control; working with Hotel Services to ensure timely deep cleans where necessary; providing information to patients, visitors and members of the public; assisting patients with Outpatient appointments; taking delivery/ensuring proper collection of biomedical samples, urgently requested equipment from other hospitals etc; tracking outlier patients (i.e. those temporarily admitted onto ‘wrong’ wards at busy times) for bed management purposes; coordinating and booking taxis for deliveries, patient movement, staff transport and other purposes; managing Patient Transport for the 128 hours per week (76%) that the higher-paid Patient Transport team does not operate; tracing, collecting and delivering Medical Records to wards for the 118 hours per week (70%) that the much larger Medical Records team does not operate; working closely with House and Lodge Porters to ensure the smooth movement of patients and materials around sites; dealing directly with violent, angry, abusive, upset and sometimes just plain scary patients/visitors/random members of the public without safety equipment; and many, many more tasks, around the clock, for 12 hour shifts, often working alone even when the recommendation is for two or even three people to be covering the workload...

...is classified at the whopping grade of Band 2 (currently starting at £17,652, rising to £18,005 from this April). Oh, and Band 2 starting salary is exactly the same as Band 1. The role would also typically require Enhanced DBS due to contact with vulnerable and young people.

You can see NHS AfC pay scales here:

Annual pay scales 2020/21

Annual pay scales 2020/21 for staff under the NHS terms and conditions of service.

www.nhsemployers.org

You can see National Job Profiles here:

National job profiles

Find out how NHS jobs are matched to the current national job profiles and how to access them.

www.nhsemployers.org

A £37,500 starting salary would put the role towards the top of Band 6. Band 6 IM&T roles would include things like Information Analyst Specialist (Statistics/Information
Management/Public Health Intelligence), Technical Engineer and Team Leader (source). A standard IT Helpdesk Technician job would typically be Band 4 (starting salary: £21,892).

 

[existentialist]

Its a simple line and its true - we need to wherever possible prevent people getting sick with this. "Protect other people" would be less likely to work; as you say they give the impression of not giving two figs about others and a lot of people seem (at least based on that Friday a couple of weeks ago) that they'd rather have a good time than do that.

I do wish they'd make more of the wartime parallels in the advertising for this though; not in the way that they've been doing but showing what people really did during the Blitz - ie: stay safe in the shelter, not walk around / go to the pub / buy easter eggs whilst the Luftwaffe was overhead.

I know just the man for the job!

Nigel, your time has come...!

 

[weltweit]

Pretty shocking, a Welsh GP practice sent out letters to elderly and ill patients asking them to sign a DNR to free up the NHS for younger more deserving patients! wtf

Probably posted somewhere but I reckon this thread needed it.

A GP surgery has apologised after sending a letter asking patients with life-limiting illnesses to complete a "do not resuscitate" form.

A letter, from Llynfi Surgery, Maesteg, asks people to sign to ensure emergency services would not be called if their condition worsened due to coronavirus.

"We will not abandon you.. but we have to be frank and realistic," it said.

from GP surgery apology over 'do not resuscitate' form

and

GPs’ practice backs down after bid to focus resources on those more likely to survive Covid-19
..
An NHS health board has apologised after a GP surgery in Wales recommended patients with serious illnesses complete “do not resuscitate” forms in case their health deteriorated after contracting coronavirus.

Llynfi surgery, in Maesteg near Port Talbot, wrote to a “small number” of patients on Friday to ask them to complete a “DNACPR” – do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation – form to ensure emergency services would not be called if they contracted Covid-19 and their health deteriorated.

“This is a very difficult letter for the practice to write to you,” it read, noting people with illnesses such as incurable cancer, motor neurone disease and pulmonary fibrosis were at a much greater risk from the virus.

“We would therefore like to complete a DNACPR form for you which we can share … which will mean that in the event of a sudden deterioration in your condition because [of] Covid infection or disease progression the emergency services will not be called and resuscitation attempts to restart your heart or breathing will not be attempted,” it continued.

from Welsh surgery apologises over 'do not resuscitate' instruction

 

[existentialist]

Gove has so far been the only Johnson replacement - at the daily press conference - that has been in the least bit animated, the rest are pretty poor examples of public speaking imo. And Gove seems to have mislead us about reagents being in short supply, if Peston is to be believed.

I don't mind the simple slogan, though it was probably thought up by Johnson and Cummins and is therefore best when delivered by Boris.

Yes, Gove is quite a good - if blatant - liar.

 

[existentialist]

I keep feeling uneasy about this phrase 'protect the NHS'. Maybe partly because it's the Tories saying it and the hypocrisy brings up sick in my mouth, but it's more than that. I think I would rather they say 'protect other people'. That's what it really means after all. And there's something weird and weaselly about not saying that, like they assume people don't care about other people but that they do have some warm glow of nationalistic pride about the NHS. I can't help thinking it's because they don't have much genuine empathy themselves, but understand vague feelings of nationalistic pride. So they've decided to talk in that language. I find something horrible about it, but of course it's difficult to criticise because then they can say 'what, you don't want to protect the NHS?'

What really matters is that, when this is all over, we are all still saying "Protect the NHS" back to them. And meaning it.

 

[smokedout]

I do wish they'd make more of the wartime parallels in the advertising for this though; not in the way that they've been doing but showing what people really did during the Blitz - ie: stay safe in the shelter, not walk around / go to the pub / buy easter eggs whilst the Luftwaffe was overhead.

I very much doubt they are keen to remind us what people really did in the Blitz.

This was at odds with the experience of the people in the Working Class areas of London, who were now being systematically bombed day and night.

Stepney councillor Piratin, who became the post-War Communist MP for Stepney, took 50 workers and what Time magazine called ‘ill-clad children’ up to the Strand and forced his way into the Savoy on the second Saturday of the Blitz, September 14.

He invaded and occupied the Savoy’s posh shelter with his workers, stating, “If it is good enough for the rich, it is good enough for the Stepney workers and their families.”

The newspapers were full of stories the next day about the audacious occupation of the Savoy and the terrible conditions of the shelters in Stepney.

A picket was later organised at Carreras tobacco factory at St Pancras, demanding that its shelter which could hold 3,000 people be opened to the public at night. Walthamstow borough councillor Bob Smith went further, taking homeless ‘bombed out’ families to occupy empty houses.

The gates to Underground stations at the beginning of the Blitz were surrounded by barbed wire and systematically locked by the police during air raids, to stop civilians seeking refuge.

But a crowd forced their way into Liverpool Street underground station on the night of September 8 and surged down to the deep-level Central Line platforms, because public shelters in the East End were overcrowded due to intense air raids.

“The public shelter was horrible, smelly and had a mouldy slab of concrete for a roof,” said one resident. “But you couldn’t go anywhere else as the Underground station was full of barbed wire. They wouldn’t let you near it.”

Three deep-level stations on the Northern Line at Warren Street, Goodge Street and Highgate were broken open and, according to Ted Bramley, “every inch of stairs, corridors and platforms was taken by the people.”

Crowds also swept past police guarding the entrances at other Underground stations, some using crowbars to force the Tube network to open up to thousands of Londoners seeking refugee from the nightly bombing.

Herbert Morrison, the Labour Home Secretary in the Wartime Coalition, was finally forced to reconsider using the London Underground as air-raid shelters and allowed civilians in during air raids.

 

[agricola]

I totally disagree with your second bit though. This isn't the Blitz. The danger then was to yourself, primarily, if you were out and about, not to others. The Blitz was genuinely terrifying and it took real courage to do the jobs that required staying above ground. Without seeking to downplay the brilliant work being done by key workers at the moment, this is really a whole order of magnitude less than that, and I'm not sure hyperbole is helpful.

I agree it isn't, but we have so many whoppers going around saying that it is that perhaps the way to explain to them is to point out what actually happened (including smokedout 's post above).