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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Are we seeing the end of the pandemic?

Barring a terrible new variant, I feel we are. Everyone I know got it, nobody I know has it now.

I see that Pfizer has made a new Omicron vaccine. I'm all over that, because it'll give you some immunity to variants that have omicron ancenstry. That infection rate is worrysome if there is suddenly a more lethal version. Civil society could break down.
I know more people who haven't had it than who have, no body I know has it now.

Another variant is a certainty. What you said about vaccines was said, word for word almost, about delta and then there was the mass scramble for boosters and the quasi lockdown we had in the run up to Christmas.

Personally, I won't be happy until there's proper ventilation and air quality monitoring of indoor crowded spaces. It's well beyond time we did that now.
 
Are we seeing the end of the pandemic?

Barring a terrible new variant, I feel we are. Everyone I know got it, nobody I know has it now.

I see that Pfizer has made a new Omicron vaccine. I'm all over that, because it'll give you some immunity to variants that have omicron ancenstry. That infection rate is worrysome if there is suddenly a more lethal version. Civil society could break down.

In the UK the signs are that we have reached the stage where, when the Omicron wave substantially diminishes, the orthodox establishment view of the disease will become firmly reestablished.

That view has much in common with the original 'herd immunity' approach, where an endemic state is the envisaged end game.

And so we will hear the term endemic being overused and misused, although some of what is said will be fair enough. Hopefully 2022 offers the opportunity for me not to have to go on about the other possibilities every day.

Key questions involve length of immunity, future variants, and what number of daily infections an endemic state actually involves. The timing and scale of these things will determine whether the word pandemic is dropped as far as the UK is concerned. If sufficient time passes before another wave, then that period will be seen as an endemic state which still includes the possibility of future, sporadic, epidemic waves.

Take the following article for an example of how this stuff is currently being painted. Variants with particular properties and their implications are the main caveat mentioned, but those are not dwelt on at all. Nor is the level of infection that an endemic state may settle on discussed properly at all, which is a mistake I will not make. There is a graphic in the article that provides a very simple sense of the differences between endemic, epidemic and pandemic. Some contradictions between that and what the body of the article says may be spotted. There are some scenarios where these shortcomings wont end up mattering very much to the UK approach in 2022, and some which could in theory force a reevaluation and quite some divergence away from the reassuring, simplistic picture painted in the article. I do not know what will happen, I am certainly be hoping that I at least get the chance to take a very long break from having to think about this stuff. Its a bit too soon for me to fall silent on all those matters just yet, but it is my intent to do so when the opportunity arises. If everything goes as well as could possibly be expected, then there will still be long-term healthcare matters to discuss. But they wont have the same intensity as the acute pandemic phase unless they involve a large epidemic wave that bypasses a large amount of immunity.

I am certainly hoping that we can go through at least 9 months without another variant with highly significant potential coming along, but I wont be able to offer any guarantees about that. Its worth noting that the narrative was already building to this stage after the Delta wave peak, but then Omicron eventually scuppered it that time. Maybe this time will be different, and certainly there will be many who will make this assumption despite past setbacks, we are invited to forget about the failures of such talk to match the reality that we then faced. Boosters and some behavioural changes were required to cope with Omicron, and that could happen again in future.

 
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The common cold is endemic, everyone gets the all the time. This might not even work for this, depending how good the omnicron immunity pans out over the next year.
Everybody you know?, what are you a bunch of professional crowd surfers?

Yes
 

That data is based on no other pre-existing conditions listed on the death certificate. Which is far from a perfect guide, and certainly no guide at all as to how many of the other cases were actually likely to die during that time if the virus had not arrived.

It does tend to show how much of a git Delta is, and the number of deaths in the 0-64 age group during Q3 reminds me of why I moan so much about attitudes & response to the Delta wave. Although obviously those who were vaccinated are also part of that story.

2020: 9400 (0-64: 1549 / 65 and over: 7851)

2021 Q1: 6483 (0-64: 1560/ 65 and over: 4923)

2021 Q2: 346 (0-64: 153/ 65 and over: 193)

2021 Q3: 1142 (0-64: 512/ 65 and over: 630)
 
I would say that I can't believe that Johnson seems to be planning to end all the/the tiny amount of 'Plan B' restrictions in 10 days' time to try to save his sorry arse, but obviously I can totally believe it.

It's so fucking stupid as at least masks were keeping shops cinemas, theatres, museums etc lower risk at no damn cost to the government and if restrictions go barely anyone's going to wear them.
 
I would say that I can't believe that Johnson seems to be planning to end all the/the tiny amount of 'Plan B' restrictions in 10 days' time to try to save his sorry arse, but obviously I can totally believe it.

It's so fucking stupid as at least masks were keeping shops cinemas, theatres, museums etc lower risk at no damn cost to the government and if restrictions go barely anyone's going to wear them.
That's utter shit news to hear but as you say totally unsurprising
 
It's like 'Hello, we still have 100K+ cases a day it might actually help to keep things open as you are so desperate to do if we ask of people just the teensiest, weensiest, cheapest bit of mitgation!
 
There is a massive reservoir of unvaccinated people out there and clearly people are unable to modify their habits to prevent them catching and spreading it - and every new infection has the potential to come up with a new more problematic strain.
A virologist I follow Amy Rosenfeld is still pencilling-in 5 years ...

No vaccine alone is going to prevent infection and transmission - probably not even if we are "boosted" every few months ...

Given it's virulence there's only so much that can be done to avoid it on a population scale whilst society operates at some sort of normality.

And my layman's guess is that it's unlikely to evolve so far that vaccine and natural derived immunity will count for nothing. The vaccine's are evolving too.

I recently read Station 11, now that is a grim albeit fictional scenario. Don't think I coulda have read it 18 months ago...
 
Its removing whats left of the 'only so much that can be done', via a range of shit excuses and perspectives, that is the problem. How normal do some people demand things be? There seems to be no limit. I can see why people want to see reduced levels of people working from home, but people then push on and apply the same logic to masks. It sucks.
 
I think I get especially pissed off about that stuff because I start thinking about data which includes things like deprivation and ethnicity. Nice tidy stories abot the population as a whole returning to the old normal rather skates over the detail about who ends up bearing the burden.

I really do hope we end up with endemic levels that are relatively low, and ongoing improvements to vaccines and other treatments like antivirals. Otherwise I will probably struggle to leave some of these inequalities alone, and the more people justify shit the madder I will become. The sanitised, simplistic picture rarely reflects reality as I understand it to be, and is often way too close to the cold calculations of the UK establishment.
 
Is there any data for how many tests are being done at the moment?

The headline 'daily cases' seems to be going down, but wonder if the shortage of LFT's means some people have given up testing?
 
Is there any data for how many tests are being done at the moment?

The headline 'daily cases' seems to be going down, but wonder if the shortage of LFT's means some people have given up testing?
The dashboard has various figures on the testing page. If you drill down to England you'll also get some other data that isnt shown for the UK as a whole.


Changes to attitudes and rules (eg less cases where confirmatory PCR is needed, many people potentially not registering the LFT results) are a factor that has to be kept in mind when studying positive case numbers. Reinfections are also missing from the picture in most UK nations so far (Wales does count them in their main figures).

There are some ways to work around these limitations. The ONS population infection survey sidesteps many of these issues but is a little bit laggy.

And ultimately I use hospital and death stats to check that the icture of infections has truth to it. Again these require time, for example in England the daily hospitalisations are roughly flat so far, and we should epect that to start to change more in the coming week if the fall in infections was real.

I suspect there has been a real fall in cases, but its probably not as large a fall as the fall shown in daily positive test data. Its probably still a substantial fall though.
 
So, an incredibly small number, thankfully.
Just one of the million attempts to downplay all this stuff that we have seen before, and will see much more from now on. I would expect nothing less.

The numbers are small, yay, they fit under the carpet, mission fucking accomplished assholes.

Besides, the point of posting those numbers was not about the absolute numbers, it was about proportions by index of deprivation and ethnicity.
 
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<snippage>

Changes to attitudes and rules (eg less cases where confirmatory PCR is needed, many people potentially not registering the LFT results) are a factor that has to be kept in mind when studying positive case numbers. Reinfections are also missing from the picture in most UK nations so far (Wales does count them in their main figures).
Do you foresee a general degradation in stats as people get more careless?
 
Well thats not exactly how I would put it, and at some point we might expect the mass testing system to end anyway. I've always paid more attention to the data at the sharp end of things, ie hospitalisations and deaths, and the more general surveillance systems that dont require everyone to be testing. This invludes wastewater testing but as far as I know we still dont get to see much of that data for England. But thats certainly one example of what the authorities can use to keep an eye on things in the absence of mass testing, and which is not affected by attitudes, supply of tests etc.
 
<snippage> data at the sharp end of things, ie hospitalisations and deaths, and the more general surveillance systems that dont require everyone to be testing. This invludes wastewater testing but as far as I know we still dont get to see much of that data for England. But thats certainly one example of what the authorities can use to keep an eye on things in the absence of mass testing, and which is not affected by attitudes, supply of tests etc.
Am I wrong to be troubled by the BIB? Am probably needlessly troubled by the idea this could be politically suppressed when it suits TBTB.
 
Please excuse me being extra pissed off at the moment, aspects of this phase and some peoples attitudes towards the perceived future were always going to wind me up and this last week both my brother and nephew have caught it. And they both have type 1 diabetes. Thankfully data does not seem to imply a massive increased diabetic-specific risk, a lot of the correlation seen there may be coincidental, ie diabetes tracking the age profile that covid also tracks in terms of increased risk. But I still get twitchy when either of them get ill with anything, since it can mess with ability to control blood glucose levels and I have awful memories of how messed up my brother used to get on that front when he was young. He has much better control of such things in the last few decades, but illness still poses a risk and he mostly lives alone, so I do endure prolonged periods of concern that dont do my mental health any good.
 
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Am I wrong to be troubled by the BIB? Am probably needlessly troubled by the idea this could be politically suppressed when it suits TBTB.
Whats BIB?

Data suppression isnt where most of my concerns have been found so far, the establishment here often has other techniques for achieving a similar result, other ways to affect peoples perceptions and create the sort of public attitudes that are required.

There probably will come a point where I dont get enough data to feel like I have a good view of the situation, but in the event of a severe wave the reality will still become obvious, theres no suppressing that. And so far the authorities have actually needed people to continue to take things seriously really quite often, and that will be true in future if something goes badly wrong. And beyond such periods it isnt really going to be necessary for me to see daily numbers in order to have some sense of how things are going.
 
Whats BIB?

Data suppression isnt where most of my concerns have been found so far, the establishment here often has other techniques for achieving a similar result, other ways to affect peoples perceptions and create the sort of public attitudes that are required.

There probably will come a point where I dont get enough data to feel like I have a good view of the situation, but in the event of a severe wave the reality will still become obvious, theres no suppressing that. And so far the authorities have actually needed people to continue to take things seriously really quite often, and that will be true in future if something goes badly wrong. And beyond such periods it isnt really going to be necessary for me to see daily numbers in order to have some sense of how things are going.
Sorry, BIB = bit in bold.
Thanks for your insights here - much appreciated as always.
 
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