Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[elbows]

Not sure its even that simple. Clinical criteria for Covid-19 involves certain symptoms, but confirmed cases require the person to meet the laboratory criterion, and that only means a positive test result. So I dont really see how anybody testing positive for Covid-19 would be considered to be anything other than a Covid-19 case.

However when it comes to descriptions of vaccine effectiveness, they are careful to use 'protection against symptomatic disease' as one of the categories (as opposed to another category which is protection against infection and transmission). And its the protection against symptomatic disease estimates that get much of the focus and tend to arrive much earlier than other estimates.

 

[bimble]

It doesn't say "prevent infection" there. That text says "preventing COVID-19". These are two different, distinct states: you can get infected, you might then go on to develop the disease COVID-19.

If you test positive does that mean you have the disease though not just the infection?

 

[andysays]

Plus preventing isnt the same as claiming to prevent all.

Seatbelts reduce road deaths, they prevent some deaths, they dont prevent all road deaths.

And very few people would seriously suggest that because most people now wear seat belts, no other measures are needed and drivers should be able to drive at whatever speed they fancy.

 

[redsquirrel]

From BBC feed - no new measures

Boris Johnson has just been speaking after this afternoon's cabinet meeting.

He says ministers agree the current situation is "extremely difficult".

"The arguments either way are finely balanced," he says noting that cases of Omicron are "surging and hospitalisations are rising quite steeply in London".

He says that the government will keep data under "constant review" and that "we will have to reserve the possibility of taking further action to protect the public and our NHS".

"We won't hesitate to take action," he says. urging the public to exercise caution and get vaccinated.

"It could not be more urgent," he adds.

Asked what kind of measures the government will take he replies: "We're looking at all kinds of things... we will rule nothing out."

 

[cupid_stunt]

Not sure its even that simple. Clinical criteria for Covid-19 involves certain symptoms, but confirmed cases require the person to meet the laboratory criterion, and that only means a positive test result. So I dont really see how anybody testing positive for Covid-19 would be considered to be anything other than a Covid-19 case.

Lots of asymptomatic cases are picked-up by LFTs in particular, and are counted as cases.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

From BBC feed - no new measures

We won't hesitate. However we will wait for a bit before not hesitating.

 

[Wilf]

From BBC feed - no new measures

The famous Chuckle Brothers sketch with horses and stable doors.

 

[cupid_stunt]

We won't hesitate. Waffle, waffle & more waffle [translation, we are hesitating]

 

[clicker]

Do escape mutants get cleverer each time, as in they have higher transmission rates etc...what happens if the next escape mutant occurs really soon? Also what if it happens while we're still trying to get people boosted? Won't it just catch up and we'll always be playing catch up with vaccines?

Short version = how does it end?

 

[platinumsage]

Seems like they haven’t agreed on any measures yet, just not to have any yet:

 

[Wilf]

We won't hesitate. However we will wait for a bit before not hesitating.

WE shall not hesitate to not attend Cobra meetings.

 

[LDC]

If you test positive does that mean you have the disease though not just the infection?

Mean/matter to who? Like daily figures and stats, or you yourself?

Sorry for simple link Germs: Protect against bacteria, viruses and infection

Understanding infection vs. disease​

There's a difference between infection and disease. Infection, often the first step, occurs when bacteria, viruses or other microbes that cause disease enter your body and begin to multiply. Disease occurs when the cells in your body are damaged — as a result of the infection — and signs and symptoms of an illness appear.

In response to infection, your immune system springs into action. An army of white blood cells, antibodies and other mechanisms goes to work to rid your body of whatever is causing the infection. For instance, in fighting off the common cold, your body might react with fever, coughing and sneezing.

 

[planetgeli]

Do escape mutants get cleverer each time,

No. Not necessarily. We aren't doomed and I believe the average length of a pandemic is 3-4 years.

 

[redsquirrel]

Is any UK political party calling for a lockdown before Xmas?

Labour's position (if you can call it that) appears to be further restrictions post-Xmas
SNP is requesting people reduced contacts but I've not seen a call for a lockdown.
No idea about the LDs - empty as usual EDIT: turns out they are calling for a better shielding policy for the clinically extremely vulnerable but have nothing else

Lots of stuff about Johnson but this is a failure of politicians in general

 

[bimble]

Mean/matter to who? Like daily figures and stats, or you yourself?

Sorry for simple link Germs: Protect against bacteria, viruses and infection

Understanding infection vs. disease​

There's a difference between infection and disease. Infection, often the first step, occurs when bacteria, viruses or other microbes that cause disease enter your body and begin to multiply. Disease occurs when the cells in your body are damaged — as a result of the infection — and signs and symptoms of an illness appear.

In response to infection, your immune system springs into action. An army of white blood cells, antibodies and other mechanisms goes to work to rid your body of whatever is causing the infection. For instance, in fighting off the common cold, your body might react with fever, coughing and sneezing.

i was asking whether testing +tive means you have the disease (or do tests pick up just infection?) because of this post:

It doesn't say "prevent infection" there. That text says "preventing COVID-19". These are two different, distinct states: you can get infected, you might then go on to develop the disease COVID-19.

tbh i don't think it necessarily matters much. i know i'm less likely to get seriously ill now i'm all jabbed up but certainly don't feel like i'm in any significant way protected from catching or spreading the virus.

 

[elbows]

I always tend to look at positive cases by specimen date rather than reporting date.

For December 15th the number of positives by specimen date for the UK has now reached 102,297.

 

[2hats]

i was asking whether testing +tive means you have the disease (or do tests pick up just infection?)

Antigen and PCR tests indicate infection and that is all. PCR doesn't necessarily translate to 'can transmit infectious virus' (that depends on viral load which isn't necessarily the same as copies of viral RNA measured by PCR; it will vary with immunocompetence, vaccination status and antigenic exposure history). Disease is measured through evaluation and diagnosis of symptoms.

 

[Yossarian]

I always tend to look at positive cases by specimen date rather than reporting date.

For December 15th the number of positives by specimen date for the UK has now reached 102,297.

Are they still excluding reinfections from the dashboard figures?

 

[oryx]

From BBC feed - no new measures

Translated: 'we're a bunch of populist libertarian loons who don't want to stand accused of cancelling Christmas'.

 

[SpookyFrank]

So they're doing nothing then.

Merry christmas, to everyone who lives that long.

 

[elbows]

Are they still excluding reinfections from the dashboard figures?

The case definition remains as this:

Cases definition

COVID-19 cases are identified by taking specimens from people and testing them for the SARS-CoV-2 virus. If the test is positive this is referred to as a case. Some positive rapid lateral flow test results are confirmed with lab-based polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests taken within 72 hours. If the PCR test results are negative, these are no longer reported as confirmed cases. If a person has more than one positive test, they are only counted as one case for all nations with the exception of Wales. Cases data includes all positive lab-confirmed polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test results plus, in England, positive rapid lateral flow tests that are not followed by a negative PCR test taken within 72 hours.

Wales is the exception, where they use this method:

Confirmed cases for Wales are calculated using six-week episode periods, with individuals who are tested multiple times in that period only being counted once. Any tests that occur more than six weeks after the initial test will trigger a new testing period.

 

[redsquirrel]

Translated: 'we're a bunch of populist libertarian loons who don't want to stand accused of cancelling Christmas'.

As truly terrible as that is I'm not sure if it is not slightly better than Labours "We know mitigation measures are needed to deal with Omicron, but we are too cowardly to implement a policy a that will save lives in case we are accused of cancelling Xmas, so we will do a performative gesture after people from different ages groups have traveled around the country and mixed".

 

[andysays]

So they're doing nothing then.

Merry christmas, to everyone who lives that long.

 

[bimble]

“We will not hesitate to act” lol.

 

[LDC]

i was asking whether testing +tive means you have the disease (or do tests pick up just infection?) because of this post:

tbh i don't think it necessarily matters much. i know i'm less likely to get seriously ill now i'm all jabbed up but certainly don't feel like i'm in any significant way protected from catching or spreading the virus.

Thought that post explained it - the difference between testing positive for the virus, and having the disease?

You could have the virus asymptomatically and never develop the disease for example. As someone has mentioned you can 'have' HIV and not AIDS. And now you can also 'have' HIV asymtomatically and also not pass it on or develop AIDS or any symptoms, so it is a bit more complicated.

(Although it could get quite meta and brain hurting talking about cellular damage or some more complex thing about what disease is and isn't. kabbes mentioned something about this on another post, and I would bet lots of our understanding about this will change in the next 50 years or so.)

 

[SpookyFrank]

You could almost feel sorry for Johnson trying to get some basic level of sanity past his cabinet of fuckwits. At least until you remember that he appointed them all in the first place, precisely because they were all too inept to ever challenge him.

 

[bimble]

Thought that post explained it - the difference between testing positive for the virus, and having the disease?

You could have the virus asymptomatically and never develop the disease for example.

Ok. I’m sad that all these double & triple jabbed people are feeling unwell right now, had hoped to feel much better protected against infection & against being a vector than I do. It’s disappointing is all. My little Xmas day plans are screwed cos of everyone else isolating with covid despite being vaccinated : (

 

[weepiper]

My colleague told me today about a mutual friend (whose house he had been planning to go to for Christmas dinner) who has tested positive. No symptoms, picked up on a routine lateral flow test, confirmed today by PCR. He's triple vaccinated and has been very cautious throughout because his wife has had two goes with cancer in the last year or two and is high risk

 

[Sue]

Ok. I’m sad that all these double & triple jabbed people are feeling unwell right now, had hoped to feel much better protected against infection & against being a vector than I do. It’s disappointing is all.

Disappointing to have pretty good protection against getting seriously ill or dying when there's a pandemic happening that's killed more than five million people worldwide? Tough crowd .

 

[elbows]

Wibble.