Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[elbows]

In terms of positive cases by age group via the main testing system in England, there is growth in the youngest ages, then a lot of age groups where things are broadly flat or with modest increases or decreases, and then in the age groups 65 and over there have been more substantial declines. Boosters probably a factor in that but perhaps not the only one, time will tell.

There are rather too many of these graphs for me to post them all so I've just focussed on the youngest ones and a few of the older ones where we first go from not much decrease to notable decreases.

These are cases by test specimen date so the most recent few days of data shown in these graphs is incomplete. And I make no claim as to whether these trends will continue.

 

[Smangus]

Got my booster today, chatted to the bloke who speared me appendage, he asked what vax I had had for the 1st 2 doses . It was AZ and the booster was Pfizer, he said that this was the best combination for effectiveness. Obvs I don't know how true this is, but I have been wondering about the effectiveness of the booster shots which seems by all accounts very good but I haven't seen any figures for it or the various permutations of shots vs efficacy. Any pointers to a resource about this anywhere at all ? Quite interested in this, or is it too early to say?

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Got my booster today, chatted to the bloke who speared me appendage, he asked what vax I had had for the 1st 2 doses . It was AZ and the booster was Pfizer, he said that this was the best combination for effectiveness. Obvs I don't know how true this is, but I have been wondering about the effectiveness of the booster shots which seems by all accounts very good but I haven't seen any figures for it or the various permutations of shots vs efficacy. Any pointers to a resource about this anywhere at all ? Quite interested in this, or is it too early to say?

I dod remember reading about some studies who pointed that mix and match provided better protection but that was a while back though.

 

[HAL9000]

Got my booster today, chatted to the bloke who speared me appendage, he asked what vax I had had for the 1st 2 doses . It was AZ and the booster was Pfizer, he said that this was the best combination for effectiveness. Obvs I don't know how true this is, but I have been wondering about the effectiveness of the booster shots which seems by all accounts very good but I haven't seen any figures for it or the various permutations of shots vs efficacy. Any pointers to a resource about this anywhere at all ? Quite interested in this, or is it too early to say?

Health Check - Mix and match Covid vaccines - BBC Sounds

New evidence on the benefits of mixing and matching doses of different Covid vaccines

www.bbc.co.uk

3 minutes 22 seconds

no number but talks about observational studies. I think it might be these results..

Mix-and-match COVID vaccines ace the effectiveness test

Combining two different COVID-19 vaccines provides protection on par with that of mRNA vaccines — including protection against the Delta variant.

www.nature.com

 

[Smangus]

Thanks!

 

[2hats]

Any pointers to a resource about this anywhere at all ?

You want the Com-COV study.

 

[Sunray]

Given that there is a 32 times likelyhood of someone in hospital for COVID-19 being unvaccinated (ONS) and there are now millions of people waiting for treatment for other conditions, is there a case for denying treatment specifically for COVID-19 for the unvaccinated?

If you don't want to at least try to do your bit with a simple jab, why are you presenting to the hospital when it all goes wrong?

I know its not going to happen but the unvaccinated aren't helping clear the 5.5 million people waiting for treatment?
Is there ever a point the majority get priority over unvaccinated COVID-19 paitents? Healthcare is a finite resource, if you get really sick you consume a ton of resources.

ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous

Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultant

www.theguardian.com

 

[IC3D]

Perhaps some kind of health insurance scheme where the premiums go up if you smoke, drink or have a poorly controlled diet and the public hospital refuses access if you do any of these, some kind of document to show you are living healthily could be rolled out too?

 

[purenarcotic]

Perhaps some kind of health insurance scheme where the premiums go up if you smoke, drink or have a poorly controlled diet and the public hospital refuses access if you do any of these, some kind of document to show you are living healthily could be rolled out too?

Is this a serious post?

 

[purenarcotic]

Given that there is a 32 times likelyhood of someone in hospital for COVID-19 (ONS) and there are now millions of people waiting for treatment for other conditions, is there a case for denying treatment for specifically for COVID-19 for the unvaccinated?

If you don't want to at least try to do your bit with a simple jab, why are you presenting to the hospital when it all goes wrong?

I know its not going to happen but the unvaccinated aren't helping clear the 5.5 million people waiting for treatment?
Is there ever a point the majority get priority over unvaccinated COVID-19 paitents? Healthcare is a finite resource, if you get really sick you consume a ton of resources.

ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous

Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultant

www.theguardian.com

Should we treat someone who falls off a motor bike because they chose the risk when they got on it? Or maybe if someone chooses to get so drunk they poison themselves we should turn them away from a busy A&E? Or maybe we could cling on to the bizarre notion that people don’t deserve to be left to die just because we might disagree with their decisions and that life has an inherent value we want to try and protect.

 

[_Russ_]

Should we treat someone who falls off a motor bike because they chose the risk when they got on it? Or maybe if someone chooses to get so drunk they poison themselves we should turn them away from a busy A&E? Or maybe we could cling on to the bizarre notion that people don’t deserve to be left to die just because we might disagree with their decisions and that life has an inherent value we want to try and protect.

There are quite a few people in here that whilst imagining they are woke would only agree with that proposal if its the right type of person under consideration, take a look at the Queen thread to see their real character

 

[purenarcotic]

There are quite a few people in here that whilst imagining they are woke would only agree with that proposal if its the right type of person under consideration, take a look at the Queen thread to see their real character

Well I’m only speaking for me. I have no interest in the Queen. She is as entitled to healthcare as anybody else. The fact she gets the best private care by virtue of who she is is an issue for me, but she retains that entitlement as much as anybody. That is the point of a universal principle, it applies to people you don’t like as much as people you do.

 

[Sunray]

Should we treat someone who falls off a motor bike because they chose the risk when they got on it? Or maybe if someone chooses to get so drunk they poison themselves we should turn them away from a busy A&E? Or maybe we could cling on to the bizarre notion that people don’t deserve to be left to die just because we might disagree with their decisions and that life has an inherent value we want to try and protect.

Clearly missing the point. Healthcare is a finite resource. When it runs out difficult choices need to be made.

As far as I am aware there is no preventative measure for motorcycle accidents. I've not woken up on the back of an out of contol m/c, plus there isn't 1000's of them presenting to A&E.

At what point does the majority that at least tried to do the right thing, get prority over people that did nothing and because they got so sick get to the front of the queue?
People need treatment for other problems and this is preventing them and its also in the majority of cases preventable.
If you don't want a vaccine, ok fine. Just don't go to A&E when you get sick, COVID-19 is out there like a common cold now, you are going to be exposed to it.
Others did get vaccinated, the unvaccinated are preventing them getting the healthcare they need.

 

[platinumsage]

Clearly missing the point. Healthcare is a finite resource. When it runs out difficult choices need to be made.

As far as I am aware there is no preventative measure for motorcycle accidents. I've not woken up on the back of an out of contol m/c, plus there isn't 1000's of them presenting to A&E.

At what point does the majority that at least tried to do the right thing, get prority over people that did nothing and because they got so sick get to the front of the queue?
People need treatment for other problems and this is preventing them and its also in the majority of cases preventable.
If you don't want a vaccine, ok fine. Just don't go to A&E when you get sick, COVID-19 is out there like a common cold now, you are going to be exposed to it.
Others did get vaccinated, the unvaccinated are preventing them getting the healthcare they need.

Kicking all the smokers and ex-smokers off respiratory wards would surely help the COVID situation.

 

[BassJunkie]

Made an appointment for my booster today - will be bang on 6 months after my last vac

Mine is also bang on 6 months after my second vaccination. That was a couple of weeks before the solstice. As this one will be.

 

[LDC]

Clearly missing the point. Healthcare is a finite resource. When it runs out difficult choices need to be made.

As far as I am aware there is no preventative measure for motorcycle accidents. I've not woken up on the back of an out of contol m/c, plus there isn't 1000's of them presenting to A&E.

At what point does the majority that at least tried to do the right thing, get prority over people that did nothing and because they got so sick get to the front of the queue?
People need treatment for other problems and this is preventing them and its also in the majority of cases preventable.
If you don't want a vaccine, ok fine. Just don't go to A&E when you get sick, COVID-19 is out there like a common cold now, you are going to be exposed to it.
Others did get vaccinated, the unvaccinated are preventing them getting the healthcare they need.

Highly dodgy road to go down tbh.

 

[_Russ_]

Well I’m only speaking for me. I have no interest in the Queen. She is as entitled to healthcare as anybody else. The fact she gets the best private care by virtue of who she is is an issue for me, but she retains that entitlement as much as anybody. That is the point of a universal principle, it applies to people you don’t like as much as people you do.

To be clear I'm not pro-everyone receiving care even if they are a complete horrible bastard who has contributed to other's deaths...but neither am I pretending to be enlightened and reasonable

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Availability of healthcare is a politically organised decision: its been made scarce but need not be scarce

Healthcare should remain everyone's entitlement

All humans do things that impact adversely on their healthcare at times

 

[StoneRoad]

<snip>Clearly missing the point. Healthcare is a finite resource. When it runs out difficult choices need to be made.

As far as I am aware there is no preventative measure for motorcycle accidents. I've not woken up on the back of an out of contol m/c, plus there isn't 1000's of them presenting to A&E.

</snip>

bib - there are several mitigations available ...
like - wearing proper gear :- helmet, gloves, boots and leathers/barbours -
plus - not driving like a dickhead & maintaining situational awareness

FYI - I've had my full M/B license since 1978, and whilst I've fallen off a couple of times in all those years, I've yet to need the NHS. Nor have I been nicked for speeding, or anything else [not counting a dodgy stop n tail lamp, and that was only advice to "get it fixed before dark !"]

 

[purenarcotic]

Clearly missing the point. Healthcare is a finite resource. When it runs out difficult choices need to be made.

As far as I am aware there is no preventative measure for motorcycle accidents. I've not woken up on the back of an out of contol m/c, plus there isn't 1000's of them presenting to A&E.

At what point does the majority that at least tried to do the right thing, get prority over people that did nothing and because they got so sick get to the front of the queue?
People need treatment for other problems and this is preventing them and its also in the majority of cases preventable.
If you don't want a vaccine, ok fine. Just don't go to A&E when you get sick, COVID-19 is out there like a common cold now, you are going to be exposed to it.
Others did get vaccinated, the unvaccinated are preventing them getting the healthcare they need.

I’m just baffled by this thinking, sorry. You could make this argument about so, so many groups of people, none of whom should be denied healthcare or treatment. The blame is with a government that both allowed an unknown virus to run completely rampant and spent years under funding and under resourcing a public healthcare system. It’s not about Bob or Sue down the road who can’t be bothered to get jabbed.

 

[purenarcotic]

bib - there are several mitigations available ...
like - wearing proper gear :- helmet, gloves, boots and leathers/barbours -
plus - not driving like a dickhead & maintaining situational awareness

FYI - I've had my full M/B license since 1978, and whilst I've fallen off a couple of times in all those years, I've yet to need the NHS. Nor have I been nicked for speeding, or anything else [not counting a dodgy stop n tail lamp, and that was only advice to "get it fixed before dark !"]

But if you did your entitlement is absolute. You could argue you could prevent the risk by not getting on it at all. It’s a stupid argument, like. But that’s where these silly ‘does someone deserve healthcare more’ take us.

 

[purenarcotic]

To be clear I'm not pro-everyone receiving care even if they are a complete horrible bastard who has contributed to other's deaths...but neither am I pretending to be enlightened and reasonable

I’m not pretending to be enlightened. If you’re a horrible cunt you still get healthcare. My heart doesn’t bleed when I hear someone punched a fascist and their jaw broke, but they still get to have their jaw fixed. The consequence of their action was having the jaw broken. It’s a bit like should people in prison be denied books or TV because they’ve committed a horrible crime, which misses the point that the denial of their liberty is already the consequence served.

 

[moochedit]

It might run out of rows

Its not limited to 65535 anymore so might be ok.

 

[elbows]

I've been finding it incredibly painful to see how long its taking to deal with this issue, and how little discussion it has generated.

Covid: Sajid Javid orders review of medical device racial bias

The health secretary responds to research suggesting oximeters work less well for darker-skinned people.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[_Russ_]

I’m not pretending to be enlightened

Wasnt directed at you, apologies if it came across as so.

 

[xenon]

Clearly missing the point. Healthcare is a finite resource. When it runs out difficult choices need to be made.

As far as I am aware there is no preventative measure for motorcycle accidents. I've not woken up on the back of an out of contol m/c, plus there isn't 1000's of them presenting to A&E.

At what point does the majority that at least tried to do the right thing, get prority over people that did nothing and because they got so sick get to the front of the queue?
People need treatment for other problems and this is preventing them and its also in the majority of cases preventable.
If you don't want a vaccine, ok fine. Just don't go to A&E when you get sick, COVID-19 is out there like a common cold now, you are going to be exposed to it.
Others did get vaccinated, the unvaccinated are preventing them getting the healthcare they need.

It's a dangerous idea to erode the principle of universal access to life saving treatment.

I don't have a problem with people being told they need to lose wait, stop smoking, stop drinking in order to get a life enhancing operation, where that stipulation is based on medical outcome likelihoods. Fining people who repeatedly turn up at A&E to get patched up, because they're pissed or been mountain biking, I think I'd be fine with too.

But where it comes to potentially life or death, systemising who gets saved based on their life choices is a very bad idea.

 

[xenon]

And you may ask why I phrased it like that, systemised. Because quite clearly all round the world, doctors have to make these heartbreaking decisions about who lives or dies, who gets the resources. Tough as that is, enshrining it in policy, something to be worked to without human oversight, is... Not going to be fun.

 

[rubbershoes]

The Taunton vaccination centre was doing both pre booked and walk-ins today.

The walk in side was swamped very quickly and they had to close that bit down. Cases are very high in the south west at the moment and maybe this had increased the demand

 

[StoneRoad]

I'm sure the local case rate does influence walk-ins - but when I was queueing up to 'register my arrival' for my booster, I was told that some of the people who turn up, even for booked appointments, still manage to forget the various bits of paper / information you are supposed to take with you ...

 

[elbows]

Nick Triggle alert. I can spot his articles before even checking who wrote them.

Covid: Can UK avoid a Europe-style return to lockdown?

Good vaccine uptake and natural immunity, coupled with public caution, has put UK in a strong position.

www.bbc.co.uk