Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[elbows]

He's under pressure from some backbenchers to press ahead with ending legal guidelines on 21 June and (so far) is likely to do so, in spite of everything pointing to this being an unwise move in the face of the Indian variant.

He would like to go ahead with it but that doesnt mean I think its likely he will actually be able to do so, because I dont know what case numbers and hospitalisations will look like by then. And it wont do him much good if he does just manage to squeeze in that last unlocking step if he has to reverse it very quickly afterwards, so I'm really not sure timing is on his side this time.

 

[Yossarian]

Other countries may have had responses almost as shitty as Britain's, but not many of them resulted in the spawning of a new COVID variant that caused case numbers to get out of control in many other countries, Johnson shares some of the blame for those deaths as well.

 

[elbows]

When it comes to total death comparisons, dont forget that a measure some in the media etc go by is looking at UK deaths compared to 'other major western economies with fairly large populations'.

Whichever way I look at it we are still up there in terms of countries who did especially badly, but thats in part because there was the usual puffed up sense of UK brilliance that makes some judges think we were supposed to be in a really good position to manage this sort of pandemic well. But as everyone who has listened to me whittering on since the start of this pandemic knows, I always expected us to do especially badly on a lot of the fronts that matter.

 

[oryx]

I've just remembered another couple of huge failings in Covid strategy by this government - the track and trace fiasco and the failure to adequately ensure that those required to isolate are financially compensated for not being able to work, where this applies.

With the first one, Johnson's government awarded the head job to a crony who had a poor track record . With the second, it's easily within the government's gift to remedy this, and they haven't.

And yet Johnson is riding high in the polls and has an 81 seat majority.

 

[elbows]

Yes and if we try to list every pandemic there will be a much longer list than the on we've come up with this evening.

I suppose my reason for bringing it up is wondering if any potential failures this time round are likely to be received differently to the ones of the past. There is probably a certain political psychology at work in terms of forgiving leaders who are trying to 'get a nation through tough times that are partly beyond their control' but I wonder what the limits of that are.

Another way of looking at the same thing I'm on about but from a different angle would be to ask how many large waves and associated restrictions and crushed expectations people will actually put up with before they start responding differently to how they did the first few times round that loop. I dont know the answer.

 

[oryx]

Yes and if we try to list every pandemic there will be a much longer list than the on we've come up with this evening.

I suppose my reason for bringing it up is wondering if any potential failures this time round are likely to be received differently to the ones of the past. There is probably a certain political psychology at work in terms of forgiving leaders who are trying to 'get a nation through tough times that are partly beyond their control' but I wonder what the limits of that are.

Another way of looking at the same thing I'm on about but from a different angle would be to ask how many large waves and associated restrictions and crushed expectations people will actually put up with before they start responding differently to how they did the first few times round that loop. I dont know the answer.

It's an interesting, if worrying one.

I see the forgiving leaders thing as definitely playing a part, and my take on it would be incredulity at that level of forgiveness in the face of some of the blatant fuck-ups mentioned above. (Also, piss poor opposition but I may be over-politicising this thread when there are other threads about that!).

 

[BigMoaner]

who is that man with the sad face that the gov sent out to defend them?

He needs to be pointing at a pot hole.

 

[BigMoaner]

Heard Johnson on the radio "we should be on for 21st June but we will know more in a few days"
He's lining things up for the you turn, isn't he? What a fucking shambles.
I'll be amazed if it all goes to plan.

If we lockdown and it's a long and brutal one, i honestly fear we will never get fully on top of this. Indian today, God knows what tomorrow. Vacinne good but only for some covid types. Its like a pot slowly reaching boiling point.

 

[BigMoaner]

Nothing like having a prime minister that has a long and sordid history of lying (even to those he loves, the cheating bastard). Nothing like not being able to trust a single word he speaks during a global pandemic when so much is at risk.

 

[David Clapson]

Johnson is completely safe. A 3rd wave could only unseat him if there was a Tory MP rebellion and massive public support for the leader of the opposition. Neither will happen. The Tories would never jeopardise their majority. The public prefer the Tories to Labour. We've seen ample proof of that with the recent elections and polling of voting intentions. If the death rate shoots up most people won't want a change of PM. Johnson has already said we'll have a 3rd wave and more deaths next winter. If that happens there won't be much public enthusiasm for getting rid of him. People will think that he learned lessons in the 1st wave and that by the time the 3rd wave comes around he'll be dealing with it more or less as well as anyone else would.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Worldometers has the UK in position 17 on deaths per million, of course some countries are well under reporting, including the likes of Russia & India, excess deaths in the UK is actually a few thousand less than covid deaths reported.

This certainly illustrates how bad the second wave has been in eastern Europe, with very little media attention in the UK.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 129,471,257 Cases and 2,828,154 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[Petcha]

I've just seen on GMB that flights from India havent stopped at all. There's 5 coming into Heathrow today alone. I thought they'd banned them? wtf?

 

[cupid_stunt]

I've just seen on GMB that flights from India havent stopped at all. There's 5 coming into Heathrow today alone. I thought they'd banned them? wtf?

No, they haven't been banned, India was added to the 'red list', which means they have to take a test before flying, and book & pay for a quarantine hotel package, including 2 more tests.

 

[Petcha]

No, they haven't been banned, India was added to the 'red list', which means they have to take a test before flying, and book & pay for a quarantine hotel package, including 2 more tests.

Ok, so why dont they just stop them altogether like countries have?

 

[BigMoaner]

Ok, so why dont they just stop them altogether like countries have?

Because that makes rational sense.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Ok, so why dont they just stop them altogether like countries have?

Only British or Irish residents are allowed to travel, with a negative test result, not sure it would be right to prevent them from coming home.

Most countries do the same, banning travel except for their own people, I know Australia introduced a total ban on flights from India, but that didn't go down well, so they have now started repatriation flights.

 

[bimble]

I get that some people need to be allowed to get home and so on but yeah this is odd:

'While the UK government has banned direct flights from 11 other Red List countries that have direct flights to the UK, including Brazil and South Africa, it did not adopt a similar policy when India was placed the list.'

So those other red list countries you just have to route via someone else's airport first?

LBC reveals over 100 flights from India landed in UK since country placed on 'red list'

One hundred and ten direct flights from India have landed in the UK in the three and a half weeks since the country was placed on the travel Red List amid rising concerns about Covid-19 variants, LBC can reveal.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[Artaxerxes]

The UK figures are dire and were shameful but thankfully (- I am not actually thankful for massive amounts of death) everyone in Europe seems to have cocked up the second wave in a massive way and those figures are now no longer quite so shameful.

Governments have constantly attempted to put economy ahead of deaths and people have died and if there was any justice a solid wave of revolutions and voting out would follow.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I get that some people need to be allowed to get home and so on but yeah this is odd:

'While the UK government has banned direct flights from 11 other Red List countries that have direct flights to the UK, including Brazil and South Africa, it did not adopt a similar policy when India was placed the list.'

So those other red list countries you just have to route via someone else's airport first?

LBC reveals over 100 flights from India landed in UK since country placed on 'red list'

One hundred and ten direct flights from India have landed in the UK in the three and a half weeks since the country was placed on the travel Red List amid rising concerns about Covid-19 variants, LBC can reveal.

www.lbc.co.uk

If you come via another country, you still have declare where you have been, and the same rules apply, or face a massive fine and/or even imprisonment, although I have little faith in them picking up all such cases TBH.

What are the fines if I break these rules?​

Providing false or deliberately misleading information when filling out a passenger locator form is an offence punishable by imprisonment. You could be fined up to £10,000, imprisoned for up to 10 years or both if you do not provide accurate details about the countries you have visited in the 10 days before you arrived in the UK. If you break the quarantine rules, you may face a penalty of up to £10,000.
Several people have already been fined £10,000 for failing to declare they had travelled to the UK from a “red list” country, according to police.

 

[bimble]

yeah but why ban direct flights from some places on red list & not india? I don't think its the most important thing but seems to me the vaccine-fuelled boost of 'didnt they do well' support that the gov got will suffer as a result of so obviously cocking this up.

 

[William of Walworth]

With (understandable) talk of Johnson doing a U-turn over June 21st, do people think he'll just postpone the planned easing of restrictions for a few weeks?

Or toughen restrictions to the point of another big lockdown?

The latter seems somewhat less likely to me, because although vaccinations should not bear the whole burden, the programme is surely having a good effect?

Also, I don't (yet) think that there'll automatically be a major third wave (not lin the summer anyway -- winter quite possibly?), but I could easily end up being proved completely wrong about that

 

[Petcha]

yeah but why ban direct flights from some places on red list & not india? I don't think its the most important thing but seems to me the vaccine-fuelled boost of 'didnt they do well' support that the gov got will suffer as a result of so obviously cocking this up.

I think it's hugely important. The virus initially came into the country by air travel, and so has this variant. I cant believe they're still allowing anyone in from India. It's insane.

 

[cupid_stunt]

yeah but why ban direct flights from some places on red list & not india?

No idea, it could be a hang over on timings, e.g. travel from South Africa was banned in Dec., Brazil in Jan., but the quarantine hotels were only set-up in Feb.

 

[cupid_stunt]

With (understandable) talk of Johnson doing a U-turn over June 21st, do people think he'll just postpone the planned easing of restrictions for a few weeks?

Or toughen restrictions to the point of another big lockdown?

 

[Steel Icarus]

yeah but why ban direct flights from some places on red list & not india? I don't think its the most important thing but seems to me the vaccine-fuelled boost of 'didnt they do well' support that the gov got will suffer as a result of so obviously cocking this up.

Thank goodness the media and the opposition will expose this and demand answers on a wide scale

 

[Artaxerxes]

yeah but why ban direct flights from some places on red list & not india? I don't think its the most important thing but seems to me the vaccine-fuelled boost of 'didnt they do well' support that the gov got will suffer as a result of so obviously cocking this up.

"This time, the 900th time Boris lies and idiocy have been exposed, this time for sure he'll have people turn against him"

 

[strung out]

yeah but why ban direct flights from some places on red list & not india? I don't think its the most important thing but seems to me the vaccine-fuelled boost of 'didnt they do well' support that the gov got will suffer as a result of so obviously cocking this up.

Presumably because there are shit loads of British residents in India needing to get home and nowhere near as many in Brazil or South Africa.

 

[bimble]

Presumably because there are shit loads of British residents in India needing to get home and nowhere near as many in Brazil or South Africa.

yes. And loads of people have gone over there for funerals obvs.

 

[brogdale]

Presumably because there are shit loads of British residents in India needing to get home and nowhere near as many in Brazil or South Africa.

We don't have to presume anything; they've told us why India didn't get put on the red-list when Pakistan and Bangladesh did.
Johnson said it was because the South African variant had been detected in Pakistan and Hancock said that travellers arriving from both there and Bangladesh had positive test rates 3 times the level of those from India.

They just haven't been able to produce any data to support those explanations yet.

 

[teuchter]

Worldometers has the UK in position 17 on deaths per million, of course some countries are well under reporting, including the likes of Russia & India, excess deaths in the UK is actually a few thousand less than covid deaths reported.

This certainly illustrates how bad the second wave has been in eastern Europe, with very little media attention in the UK.

View attachment 269083

Coronavirus Update (Live): 129,471,257 Cases and 2,828,154 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

It's not really just a story of the UK and then Eastern Europe having done badly though.

The UK sits within a bunch of other 'western' European countries that have done similarly badly. And it's not doing loads worse than the EU average.

And we're not done with this yet of course; the UK having got ahead with vaccination might mean that in relative terms it'll be doing significantly better a few months down the line.