Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
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weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Just ordered a pack of lateral flow tests to have at home because there's been several times recently where I have had enough doubt that I may have been exposed through my work to want to do a test, but not had any symptoms or enough certainty to self isolate. Now I'll just do a test a couple of times a week to be on the safe side.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I would imagine plenty of events where low prevalence and tests combine allows enough wiggle room for them to get away with it at this stage.
I do not believe the lateral flow tests are good enough to cope with situations where there are a large number of infections in the community before the event. But I try to tailor my concerns to match the levels of infection in the community, so my current stance is very similar to the stance I took last June, when I advised people not to spend too much time sitting around waiting for another wave imminently. If circumstances force my stance to change again in future then I expect the deteriorating situation to be obvious in many ways to many people, but now is not that time.
Obviously I would be happier if I could be more concrete about my sense of the future, because unlike last time (the time between the first and second waves) I have much less sense of how inevitable another wave is. And even that first time I didnt want to develop too firm a sense of the future, I prefer to wait and see. I also dont know to quite what extent things like vaccination & improved infection control in institutions including hospitals and care homes will make to various feedback loops of infection between those settings and the wider community. It could be that such things were quite a large amplifier of broader community infections, and if vaccines permanently change that landscape then all bets are off in terms of what level of pandemic potential I think is still there, lurking.
I'm repeating myself quite a lot about this these days. I hope not to do so so much in May and June.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
I think this was the point. At that age unless you have a dodgy immune system, nothing much is going to happen. If you have a dodgy immune system your not going to a sweaty club. I think it’s more about community transmission. There is going to be some push back on vaccinations for the under 30’s.
Lateral flow tests while imperfect work quite well if your asymptomatic with high viral load. They are also very cheap compared to PCR tests, so you can do loads. If you test positive you can get a pcr test.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
I like it that we’re are in such odd times, a headline stating we can hug again is a headline.
www.theguardian.com
People in England urged to be patient amid reports hugging may soon be allowed
Vaccine rollout and reduction in cases means family and friends could could be allowed to hug in a fortnight
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Weirder still that i wouldn't have found it weird if reading it. Had to be pointed out by your good self. It has been a totally fucking bizarre time.I like it that we’re are in such odd times, a headline stating we can hug again is a headline.
People in England urged to be patient amid reports hugging may soon be allowed
Vaccine rollout and reduction in cases means family and friends could could be allowed to hug in a fortnight
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
Do you mean if you have a dodgy immune system you won't go to clubs at the moment? Or in general? Not sure either is true.
Also as long covid is showing unfortunately young people are not invulnerable.
Fingers crossed things go okay. I can't wait to get back into a club, but the pictures of a rammed venue didn't seem that appealing though I would have felt that before covid tbf.
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Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Hey, it’s a personal risk, if you know you are immunocompromised and you go to a squat rave in an abandoned warehouse with no toilets. There might be consequences. I always reminded of the healthy guy in trainspotting.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
I fear you could be right.
OTHO reports coming out from both India & Brazil are suggesting more than 50% of hospital admissions are now the under 40s*, thanks to their new variants, and early studies are suggesting the vaccines will be efficient in preventing severe illness from these variants, so hopefully that message will be pushed.
* And, this doesn't appear to be down to older people having the jabs, as both countries are well behind the UK on vaccination.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Oh am I going to have to keep going on about this?
Firstly please provide links to articles about this so I now which stories people are referring to.
Secondly a small percentage of a very large number can still add up to a large number, and this certainly applies to younger people being hospitalised. There is the sense that all the way through this pandemic people seem to have been tempted to underestimate how many younger people require hospital treatment, creating a larger gap between their perceptions and the possible reality on the ground when they finally hear shocking stories about younger people in hospital in large numbers.
Then there are issues relating to hospitals under strain and that when supply cannot meet demand across the age ranges, younger people may be more likely to manage to get admitted than older people.
Perceptions, jobs and behaviours also means younger people have perhaps been less able to hide from the virus much, including at key moments of explosive growth.
And then we have various reasons why the media would seek to focus on this aspect. See for example this CNN article about the Kent variant maybe affecting the young more in the USA. More young people are getting hospitalized as a 'stickier,' more infectious coronavirus strain becomes dominant
None of this means I dont believe any of these variants are having a notable effect on the young, It just means I am having a lot of trouble evaluating the extent to which this is actually the case. So if I moan at people casually mentioning this stuff, I'm not really meaning to moan at them, I'm moaning about a lack of quality info I can actually use to develop some kind of well-grounded opinion on this.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
It's the verified nurse talking about wards full of children again.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Already done, probably on the worldwide thread.
Not solely a Covid-19 issue this but still a problem. Closing roads (midday onwards or similar?) would give more space to businesses but stealing pavements is shitty behaviour. While I have sympathy for hospitality businesses trying to reopen and re-employ people the planning is the usual fucking mess.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yup, I've seen quite a few examples of this around the place.
Working with a woman from India at the moment. She is a doctor and her husband is a brain surgeon. They moved to the UK at the start of March 2020 
and have seen nothing but their home and Luton 
poor fuckers.
Her mother died in India just before the situation there went mental and after the funeral was worried she could not get back to the UK. Due to her residency status she was able to fly back. Obviously has to quarantine for ten days which is not ideal but of course she wanted to be home to her husband.
She flew back on a half full BA flight with 100% mask wearing and (the all Indian passengers) was served Indian food. Said it was as safe as possible with testing and space.
Now is in a quarantine hotel costing £200 per night so £2000.
In a small room and alcohol is not allowed. She does not drink much but worth mentioning.
Allowed 'outside' fresh air' time twice a day (24 hours) for 10 minute's only accompanied by a security guard.
She asked if it would be possible to have some Indian food instead of the pizza/pasta/burger options on the bar menu but was told that she could order that for delivery as they can't provide that. P
The staff are hardly answering any calls (she needed some sanitary products) and when they did it took over 12 hours to arrange and she was charged a 'premium' price for said products to be left outside her door.
When she 'booked up' this she was told that transport back to the airport was part of the package. Has since been told that she has to arrange her own transport/taxi.
I am all for restrictions on international travel but this is a bad way to treat people for £200 a night. We left travel open for a long time and shared our variant around the world. We are still allowing the rich to fly anywhere they want (even Farage the cunt) and Disgraced Prime Minister Johnson was a cunt hair away from flying over to India himself for his money train.
This is just profit from misery isn't it...
Cunts
and have seen nothing but their home and Luton poor fuckers.Her mother died in India just before the situation there went mental and after the funeral was worried she could not get back to the UK. Due to her residency status she was able to fly back. Obviously has to quarantine for ten days which is not ideal but of course she wanted to be home to her husband.
She flew back on a half full BA flight with 100% mask wearing and (the all Indian passengers) was served Indian food. Said it was as safe as possible with testing and space.
Now is in a quarantine hotel costing £200 per night so £2000.
In a small room and alcohol is not allowed. She does not drink much but worth mentioning.
Allowed 'outside' fresh air' time twice a day (24 hours) for 10 minute's only accompanied by a security guard.
She asked if it would be possible to have some Indian food instead of the pizza/pasta/burger options on the bar menu but was told that she could order that for delivery as they can't provide that. P
The staff are hardly answering any calls (she needed some sanitary products) and when they did it took over 12 hours to arrange and she was charged a 'premium' price for said products to be left outside her door.
When she 'booked up' this she was told that transport back to the airport was part of the package. Has since been told that she has to arrange her own transport/taxi.
I am all for restrictions on international travel but this is a bad way to treat people for £200 a night. We left travel open for a long time and shared our variant around the world. We are still allowing the rich to fly anywhere they want (even Farage the cunt) and Disgraced Prime Minister Johnson was a cunt hair away from flying over to India himself for his money train.
This is just profit from misery isn't it...
Cunts
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
This is what happens when an asset-stripping mentality finds itself in charge of a situation where people have no choices. They can't help but go straight for the maximum exploitation optionWorking with a woman from India at the moment. She is a doctor and her husband is a brain surgeon. They moved to the UK at the start of March 2020
Her mother died in India just before the situation there went mental and after the funeral was worried she could not get back to the UK. Due to her residency status she was able to fly back. Obviously has to quarantine for ten days which is not ideal but of course she wanted to be home to her husband.
She flew back on a half full BA flight with 100% mask wearing and (the all Indian passengers) was served Indian food. Said it was as safe as possible with testing and space.
Now is in a quarantine hotel costing £200 per night so £2000.
In a small room and alcohol is not allowed. She does not drink much but worth mentioning.
Allowed 'outside' fresh air' time twice a day (24 hours) for 10 minute's only accompanied by a security guard.
She asked if it would be possible to have some Indian food instead of the pizza/pasta/burger options on the bar menu but was told that she could order that for delivery as they can't provide that. P
The staff are hardly answering any calls (she needed some sanitary products) and when they did it took over 12 hours to arrange and she was charged a 'premium' price for said products to be left outside her door.
When she 'booked up' this she was told that transport back to the airport was part of the package. Has since been told that she has to arrange her own transport/taxi.
I am all for restrictions on international travel but this is a bad way to treat people for £200 a night. We left travel open for a long time and shared our variant around the world. We are still allowing the rich to fly anywhere they want (even Farage the cunt) and Disgraced Prime Minister Johnson was a cunt hair away from flying over to India himself for his money train.
This is just profit from misery isn't it...
Cunts
These people really, really do need to find themselves looking between their feet to admire the glories of a streetlamp light fitting...
elbows
Well-Known Member
I remember being very unhappy with Manchesters night time economy adviser last year when they were resisting local lockdown at a crucial moment. Some of the Burnham arguments at the time about funding lockdown properly were fair enough, but they went beyond that into dangerous, shitty priorities and pandemic ignorance. Now I see they popped up as being involved in this case, which I'm glad they lost.
Hospitality bosses lose court battle over indoor opening
The High Court has ruled in favour of the government in a battle over indoor reopening dates in England.
www.bbc.co.uk
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
elbows, I was out & only briefly scrolling on the phone yesterday, now I am on the laptop I've found the article I linked to a few days ago concerning more under 40's being admitted to hospital in Brazil & India.
There's been loads of reports with comments from specific medics or hospital managers, but this one grabbed my attention, because it quotes data from a study by the Brazilian Intensive Medicine Association, amongst others, and data collected by Covid19India.org.
It does ask the questions if it could be down to more younger people being accepted for the limited beds available, as their chances of survival is higher, and/or just a reflection of vast numbers. However, they also found deaths amongst those aged 20-39 had increased by 2.7 times compared to the first wave, whereas the general population that increase was only 1.15 times higher.
It concludes that although there's no hard facts confirming it's down to the new variants, rather than other factors, such as young people being out & about more, they certainly may have a part to play, which should be of public concern.
www.telegraph.co.uk
There's been loads of reports with comments from specific medics or hospital managers, but this one grabbed my attention, because it quotes data from a study by the Brazilian Intensive Medicine Association, amongst others, and data collected by Covid19India.org.
It does ask the questions if it could be down to more younger people being accepted for the limited beds available, as their chances of survival is higher, and/or just a reflection of vast numbers. However, they also found deaths amongst those aged 20-39 had increased by 2.7 times compared to the first wave, whereas the general population that increase was only 1.15 times higher.
It concludes that although there's no hard facts confirming it's down to the new variants, rather than other factors, such as young people being out & about more, they certainly may have a part to play, which should be of public concern.
Mystery shrouds growth in Covid cases in young people
Younger people seem to be harder hit by recent Covid-19 waves around the world. But is it due to sheer numbers or new variants?
www.telegraph.co.uk
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Just to add to the above post, there's further information published in the BMJ.
www.bmj.com
And, from the Fiocruz website -
agencia.fiocruz.br
Covid-19: Brazil’s spiralling crisis is increasingly affecting young people
Brazil continues to break records for all the wrong reasons as it faces its deadliest episode of the pandemic yet, amid an escalating political crisis. More than 3780 covid-19 deaths were recorded on 30 March, six days after the country recorded its 300 000th life lost to the illness. At least...
And, from the Fiocruz website -
Observatório Covid-19 Fiocruz alerta para rejuvenescimento da pandemia no Brasil
Ao analisar as faixas etárias de 30 a 39, de 40 a 49, e de 50 a 59 anos entre a Semana Epidemiológica 1 de 2021 e a 10 (7 a 13/3), os pesquisadores observaram aumento de casos de 565,08%, 626% e 525,93% – o que sugere um deslocamento da pandemia
agencia.fiocruz.br
I remember being very unhappy with Manchesters night time economy adviser last year when they were resisting local lockdown at a crucial moment. Some of the Burnham arguments at the time about funding lockdown properly were fair enough, but they went beyond that into dangerous, shitty priorities and pandemic ignorance. Now I see they popped up as being involved in this case, which I'm glad they lost.
Hospitality bosses lose court battle over indoor opening
The High Court has ruled in favour of the government in a battle over indoor reopening dates in England.www.bbc.co.uk
I do have a lot of sympathy for the hospitality industry but this was daft. I certainly doubt the motivations of the head punch taverns and doubt he understands or gives a shit about the science.
elbows said:Hospitality bosses lose court battle over indoor opening
The High Court has ruled in favour of the government in a battle over indoor reopening dates in England.www.bbc.co.uk
I agree.
Punch Taverns : Up there with the very worst and most manager-exploiting 'pub-cos' in the UK
Enterprise Inns : Also shitty in very similar ways
Wetherspoons : Equally dreadful, but different
The worst of a shit bunchWetherspoons : Equally dreadful, but different
William of Walworth said:Wetherspoons : Equally dreadful, but different
People in the trade that I know (eg my brewer mate the weekend just gone), will argue that Punch and Enterprise are easily as bad, and in some specific instances worse -- there's a legitimate (but quite technical and beer-supply related) discussion to be had there.
But yes, Wetherspoons achieve top shite rankings by their size as much as lots of other things!
<edited -- double post>
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Let's face it - this isn't about individual pubcos being aberrant. It's baked into the system, and there is essentially no other way for them to operate in that market without being exploitative arses. Which is not to excuse them, but we should remember that the whole pubco framework was set up specifically to enable enormous companies to do a little end run around competition and monopolies legislation.People in the trade that I know (eg my brewer mate the weekend just gone), will argue that Punch and Enterprise are easily as bad, and in some specific instances worse -- there's a legitimate (but quite technical and beer-supply related) discussion to be had there.
But yes, Wetherspoons achieve top shite rankings by their size as much as lots of other things!
elbows
Well-Known Member
Thanks for taking the time to find more detailed info cupid_stunt
Lots of what is said there seems reasonable. And consistent with a general impression about various strains packing a bigger punch. I think the 'Kent variant' showed certain signs of that too, but its a question of to exactly what extent, and as I always say I dont think everyone had the right impression about how badly some younger people could be affected by the original strains in the first place.
I suppose from a narrower UK perspective, the realities of those variants on that front must also be combined with whether these other variants have enough of a transmission advantage over the Kent strain that they could become the dominant strain here one day. And whether they are better at escaping natural or vaccine-based immunity. Only time will tell on that.
Lots of what is said there seems reasonable. And consistent with a general impression about various strains packing a bigger punch. I think the 'Kent variant' showed certain signs of that too, but its a question of to exactly what extent, and as I always say I dont think everyone had the right impression about how badly some younger people could be affected by the original strains in the first place.
I suppose from a narrower UK perspective, the realities of those variants on that front must also be combined with whether these other variants have enough of a transmission advantage over the Kent strain that they could become the dominant strain here one day. And whether they are better at escaping natural or vaccine-based immunity. Only time will tell on that.
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Working with a woman from India at the moment. She is a doctor and her husband is a brain surgeon. They moved to the UK at the start of March 2020
Her mother died in India just before the situation there went mental and after the funeral was worried she could not get back to the UK. Due to her residency status she was able to fly back. Obviously has to quarantine for ten days which is not ideal but of course she wanted to be home to her husband.
She flew back on a half full BA flight with 100% mask wearing and (the all Indian passengers) was served Indian food. Said it was as safe as possible with testing and space.
Now is in a quarantine hotel costing £200 per night so £2000.
In a small room and alcohol is not allowed. She does not drink much but worth mentioning.
Allowed 'outside' fresh air' time twice a day (24 hours) for 10 minute's only accompanied by a security guard.
She asked if it would be possible to have some Indian food instead of the pizza/pasta/burger options on the bar menu but was told that she could order that for delivery as they can't provide that. P
The staff are hardly answering any calls (she needed some sanitary products) and when they did it took over 12 hours to arrange and she was charged a 'premium' price for said products to be left outside her door.
When she 'booked up' this she was told that transport back to the airport was part of the package. Has since been told that she has to arrange her own transport/taxi.
I am all for restrictions on international travel but this is a bad way to treat people for £200 a night. We left travel open for a long time and shared our variant around the world. We are still allowing the rich to fly anywhere they want (even Farage the cunt) and Disgraced Prime Minister Johnson was a cunt hair away from flying over to India himself for his money train.
This is just profit from misery isn't it...
Cunts
This ^ was her whole lunch today.
No outside time allowed today as the security guard was not available.
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