Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Surely the vacinne is going to really start to show in say may, June. Surely?

Surely? Gulp.

I'm unsure we will notice the current groups as most of the people eligible for vaccines so far were all at home in fear of their lives. My Mum was. If you don't leave the house you're not going to catch anything. My mum and her friends will notice as they can now see each other again. Can't easily count people not getting sick so will not effect the numbers in any meaningful way.

The 16-65 vulnerable group is the one I think we will notice having a measurable effect.
 
Somewhere fairly inner city, the area is quite densely populated.
I do get quite defensive about people saying stuff like this. 'Inner city' covers a massive area. I live in the inner city but I wouldn't say what I see here is representative of other inner city areas, because I don't know. It all contributes to the sense that the problem is these other people, who aren't like us.
 
Honestly it's like we are all in prison. Freedom is hardly the option of popping to fucking sainsburys it? Whrn all a human being can do is go for a day out at Lidl it might as well be prison.
agreeing with the post above and I did post a link to an article about the prisonners current situation:
mostly 22.5 hours locked in a cell since this started.
Some of them doubled up in a single cell.
We still have the option of going for a walk around the block/to the park if we need/want to, they don't.
And loads of staff having to go in isolation exarcerbating the problems.
 
agreeing with the post above and I did post a link to an article about the prisonners current situation:
mostly 22.5 hours locked in a cell since this started.
Some of them doubled up in a single cell.
We still have the option of going for a walk around the block/to the park if we need/want to, they don't.
And loads of staff having to go in isolation exarcerbating the problems.
yes, i know. fair point. just feeling trapped mentally. of course it is not the same.
 
Not for resuscitation! :eek:

People with learning disabilities have been given do not resuscitate orders during the second wave of the pandemic, in spite of widespread condemnation of the practice last year and an urgent investigation by the care watchdog

NHS figures released last week show that in the five weeks since the third lockdown began, Covid-19 accounted for 65% of deaths of people with learning disabilities. Figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the rate for the general population was 39%, although the two statistics are drawn from different measurements

 

People with learning disabilities have been given do not resuscitate orders during the second wave of the pandemic, in spite of widespread condemnation of the practice last year and an urgent investigation by the care watchdog.

Mencap said it had received reports in January from people with learning disabilities that they had been told they would not be resuscitated if they were taken ill with Covid-19.
 
I was saying that the other day. We can't talk about the pandemic ending in this country without it becoming under control everywhere else too otherwise it's just going to be a cycle of lockdowns, mutations, reinfections. Isn't it?

My initial concern on the international front involves the protection of those who are vulnerable to death from this pandemic.

But yes, in terms of controlling things it would be better if the virus can be tackled well everywhere.

However, even if things are still a mess globally, there are ways the vaccine-based approach can utterly change the nature fo the game even when there is stuff with consequences happening on the mutations front. If they get the surveillance and the timing of vaccine updates and boosters right, then it is well possible the UK will be able to pursue the sort of approach that was always the instinct of the public health and political establishment. If they can keep the parameters within their comfort zone then they wont feel the need to respond to the pandemic in the ways we've had to accept over the last year, it will be far more like their version of business as usual. Business as usual still means some people left vulnerable to dying from this disease, but a big chunk of their sense of 'balance' is a crude numbers game and they wont care about 'manageable' levels of hospitalisation and death, not unless its still high enough to dampen economic confidence/activity significantly.
 
Not for the majority of those who are spreading the disease. The younger key workers. People who probably won't be vaccinated until later in the year.

This is where levels of natural immunity start to come into the equation again. We know that the total herd immunity approach was attractive to them but the numbers did not come anywhere close to adding up, cannot pursue that policy in totality without hospital demand exceeding capacity many times over. But that doesnt stop a lesser version of the same phenomenon from being part of the mix. ie the idea that a fair percentage of those whose occupation or other circumstances means they've been on the front lines of exposure in the pandemic waves experiecned so far. From the viruses point of view there are likely many less susceptible candidates in that population than there were at the start, and even if this is not enough to make enough of a difference to push things below key tipping points, it still contributes to some degree. eg it would change the modelling of what could happen next.

Recently I have heard about, but not properly looked into, the idea that cases, hsopitalisation etc are falling faster than the authorities had hoped/expected. I am pleased about that but am always waiting to make sure it continues at impressive pace rather than the decline starting to slow or levels getting stuck at some still high rate.

Assuming such rates continue to fall substantially, then the next thing I will want to see is what happens once schools have been reopened for a while. Because it does seem possible to me that spread in schools, involving settings that were mostly shut in the first lockdown but not in the November national measures period, and thus 'fresh' populations exposed, may have contributed significantly to the explosion in cases then seen in December, even though the new variant aspect alone got most of the attention. This could even explain why cases are now falling more rapidly than expected, if school spread was responsible for a part of what was instead attributed to the new variant in general.

Anyway, point is that I dont feel like I can form an opinion on when the right time for other stuff to reopen should be until we have lived with the schools reopen for a bit. And I dont have an opinion of what will happen with infections when schools are open, things could go wrong but it is also reasonable to anticipate that the virus has lost a vast amount of momentum due to a combination of factors, and that even if more things go wrong in future, it would still take quite a long time for the virus to start to regain momentum.
 
Because you first heard about this back in December when the article was written?
Incidentally, I had wondered how they are going to get round the quarantine rules for full football teams arriving in the UK. For example, Real Sociedad play Man United at Old Trafford on the 25th Feb (and for that matter United go out to Spain for the first leg and return, this week I think). Probably class such things as 'flying bubbles' or some such and the risk will be relatively small. But it certainly doesn't add to any feeling of us all being in it together.

Edit: I might add I'm happier to see football matches taking place, at least domestically, as there is something positive watching football in lockdown. The idea that entrepreneurs need to attend meetings in person is bullshit and just about as socially useful as social media influencers getting 2 weeks in the sun.
 
Last edited:
It does feel like quite a few things point towards schools being a significant factor in spread.

I need to go on about tipping points in that and other contexts too. Spread in setting such as schools and healthcare facilities is of course related to the overall levels of infection present in the community, seeding infections, and the number of susceptible people who mix in those settings. We should probably expect post-wave natural immunity and vaccinations to impact on these things and increase the chances that tipping points are much harder to reach in future. The exact extent of the wiggle room bought is of course yet to be determined, but despite my cautious outlook I will not be at all surprised if this is a game-changing year that we dont have to wait all that long to see for ourselves. And then it will be a question of vigilance to ensure we dont sleepwalk into another disaster if the virus adapts to escape all the immunity it is facing.
 
Its return of the orthodoxy vs rise of the escape mutants, basically. The orthodox approach has now got to demonstrate why it got to be the longstanding orthodox approach in the first place. Genomic surveillance at scale increases the chances it will succeed, but only if those with power heed all findings that stem from such data and act appropriately. Although they may have wiggle room to get away with acting inappropriately at times too.
 
Presumably it will be of some interest to watch what happens in Italy and Spain in the next few months, compared to the UK? Because their populations have also experienced a high level of exposure to the virus, but they will not have a vaccination effect kicking in until somewhat later. And that might tell us a bit about how much our rapidly dropping rates (if that continues) have to do with vaccination, 'natural' immunity or both. I realise there'll be a whole load of confounding factors that will mean nothing is entirely clear.
 
Incidentally, I had wondered how they are going to get round the quarantine rules for full football teams arriving in the UK. For example, Real Sociedad play Man United at Old Trafford on the 25th Feb (and for that matter United go out to Spain for the first leg and return, this week I think). Probably class such things as 'flying bubbles' or some such and the risk will be relatively small. But it certainly doesn't add to any feeling of us all being in it together.

Edit: I might add I'm happier to see football matches taking place, at least domestically, as there is something positive watching football in lockdown. The idea that entrepreneurs need to attend meetings in person is bullshit and just about as socially useful as social media influencers getting 2 weeks in the sun.
Apparently, United play in Turnin as a neutral venue against Real this week, but the point still stands.
 
Rumours on Twitter that gov wants to go for full school re-opening on 8 March (no idea what they're based on); much as I'd love kids at school, it seems to me that the absolute most that might be advisable would be primary schools open.

BIB - newspaper reports this morning.
 
I see - looks from papers more like the plan is primaries, and then secondaries a bit later, but really, who knows?

Not impressed they're still talking dates, they haven't learned a fucking thing about not doing things for the sake of raising morale, but I guess I always knew they'd stick to simplistic and risky rather than delayed gratification for a better long-term outlook.
 
Things continue to move in the right direction, today's reported figures -

First dose vaccinations now just over 14.5m

New cases - 13,308, overall a drop of 27.3% in the last week.

New deaths - 621, which is down 207 on last Saturday's 828, that brings the 7-day average down to around 689 a day, a drop of 26.1% in the last week.

Today's update -

First dose vaccinations now just over 15m

New cases - 10,972, overall a drop of 28.1% in the last week.

New deaths - 258, which is down 115 on last Sunday's 373, that brings the 7-day average down to around 672 a day, a drop of 25.1% in the last week.
 
Not impressed they're still talking dates, they haven't learned a fucking thing about not doing things for the sake of raising morale, but I guess I always knew they'd stick to simplistic and risky rather than delayed gratification for a better long-term outlook.

The only date mentioned by the government, so far, is the 8th March for some form of schools reopening, everything else is just noise created by the media to generate stories.

Johnson is not due to to set out the 'roadmap' until a week on Monday, a week is a long time when it comes to covid, so....

zzzzz1.jpg
 
Back
Top Bottom