Cid
Proper break this time
Support bubble: A single person household may have support from another household.
Childcare bubble: One household allowed to provide childcare for another. Limited to childcare, should not be social.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
Support bubble: A single person household may have support from another household.
Childcare bubble: One household allowed to provide childcare for another. Limited to childcare, should not be social.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I didn’t realise people were still doing support bubbles. This must be why I’m still seeing a lot of people in the street. Aren’t we supposed to stay in unless we go to the shops or get some exercise?
Thora
Differently Ethical
You can go out with your household or support bubble though, or exercise with 1 other person from another household.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
That's why getting rid of them with any tighter restrictions makes sense tbh.
Cid
Proper break this time
Yes but these are exceptions you're going to specifically look up if you're in that kind of situation. The basic rule is not that hard to grasp.
I think there have been so many changes and different rules in different places, that many people have completely lost track (I know I have but then I'm basically staying at home and not seeing anyone so...). Some people are swinging the lead but I'm not sure how you deal with that tbh.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I see Starmers schools flip-flopping did not escape the attention of Marr:
(from the 10:49 entry of https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55605009 )
(from the 10:49 entry of https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55605009 )
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I think support bubbles have been abused (and admit have been guilty of it myself). Ended up feeling torn between two single friends both with mental health needs and agreeing a bubble with both of them (with both of their consent). That then got very difficult when further rules started being broken without getting the consent of everyone in the bubble. No it's not ok to meet someone off Grindr without asking everyone even if they have claimed to self isolate in advance. No it's not ok to go and have dinner round your ex's. No it's not ok to suddenly bring another 'safe' single friend into this ever expanding porous bubble. I'd love it to be scrapped or tightened up as it would make it a lot easier to completely pop the bubble without interpersonal grief.
Thora
Differently Ethical
A friend of mine is in this situation - she lives alone but was in a support bubble with a friend who has a lodger, but now the lodger has a boyfriend so lodger says he is her support bubble... My friend isn’t sure if lodger’s boyfriend lives with anyone else so does that mean she can no longer be in this support bubble?
Or family A has a baby so form a support bubble with family B, and family B are in a childcare bubble with family C, and family C are in a support bubble with person D who lives alone... so they think why not just all socialise as one big bubble since all connected anyway?
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I know it's all been said and dragged over before, but the other day I did find myself once again thinking just how utterly ludicrous the government's piss-poor communication throughout all this is.
We have smart, talented people who know how to communicate science effectively, but instead we've got this utterly garbled mess. I guess that's in part reflective of the garbled mess that is the government's ever-changing strategies and policies, only so much you can do to turn something that doesn't make sense into something that does, but still, I feel confident in also saying it is for a lack of trying (and ability).
Cid
Proper break this time
Afaik a lodger makes a household more than one person, but yes it is stupid that that isn't more clear.
The latter example is more simple: Childcare bubbles are explicitly not for socialising.
Cid
Proper break this time
A lot of this is rules lawyering... The principle that should always be returned to is minimising contact. Support bubbles are if you need support. Childcare bubbles are strictly for childcare. There are always going to be difficult exceptions and edge cases... But understanding that part should lead to erring on the side of more conservative interpretations... Whereas often the opposite is true.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There is some twisted comflation of things going on here that require some careful unpicking:
www.theguardian.com
I dont think Im in the right mood to carefully unpick it right now so I'll just say that the likes of Whitty have consistently spoken of their expectations that it would become endemic. They even used that stuff, and the threat of future waves, to justify their original shitty 'act late and weak and just press the curve down a bit otherwise it will bounce back later just when we dont want it to, in winter'. And the government paid lip service to the idea of suppression, but nobody seriously thought they were pursuing a zero covid approach at any stage. So I find the idea that we are in the current mess because they thought they could totally suppress the virus to be a sick joke.
There are aspects of the article which I wouldnt be so damning of, and the need for a long term approach and for people to have realistic expectations about the future is important. But there are some untested preconcieved ideas and some disgusting distortions in whats being said by some of those people. Whichever side these people are on, there are signs of the usual problem with narrow, orthodox thinking and a lack of genuine ambition.
Plan for the future now or Covid will last for years, UK scientists warn
Experts condemn UK’s ‘short-term’ response and urge ministers to rethink their approach
I dont think Im in the right mood to carefully unpick it right now so I'll just say that the likes of Whitty have consistently spoken of their expectations that it would become endemic. They even used that stuff, and the threat of future waves, to justify their original shitty 'act late and weak and just press the curve down a bit otherwise it will bounce back later just when we dont want it to, in winter'. And the government paid lip service to the idea of suppression, but nobody seriously thought they were pursuing a zero covid approach at any stage. So I find the idea that we are in the current mess because they thought they could totally suppress the virus to be a sick joke.
There are aspects of the article which I wouldnt be so damning of, and the need for a long term approach and for people to have realistic expectations about the future is important. But there are some untested preconcieved ideas and some disgusting distortions in whats being said by some of those people. Whichever side these people are on, there are signs of the usual problem with narrow, orthodox thinking and a lack of genuine ambition.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Not sure if it’s against the rules but I am doing my sister’s recycling for her as the binmen haven’t come in ages and we have massive recycling bins in our block. Won’t be going inside, just picking the bags up and sticking them in the car. Will just wave at my sister and kids at the door.
Can’t really see the harm in it?
Can’t really see the harm in it?
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
I'd say more important is the govt putting more restrictions on companies and workers and supporting their restrictions with test and trace and decent sick pay etc.
sure that would be great, but let's be realistic. we've seen what these guys are prepared to do.
Cid
Proper break this time
There is some twisted comflation of things going on here that require some careful unpicking:
Plan for the future now or Covid will last for years, UK scientists warn
Experts condemn UK’s ‘short-term’ response and urge ministers to rethink their approach
I dont think Im in the right mood to carefully unpick it right now so I'll just say that the likes of Whitty have consistently spoken of their expectations that it would become endemic. They even used that stuff, and the threat of future waves, to justify their original shitty 'act late and weak and just press the curve down a bit otherwise it will bounce back later just when we dont want it to, in winter'. And the government paid lip service to the idea of suppression, but nobody seriously thought they were pursuing a zero covid approach at any stage. So I find the idea that we are in the current mess because they thought they could totally suppress the virus to be a sick joke.
There are aspects of the article which I wouldnt be so damning of, and the need for a long term approach and for people to have realistic expectations about the future is important. But there are some untested preconcieved ideas and some disgusting distortions in whats being said by some of those people. Whichever side these people are on, there are signs of the usual problem with narrow, orthodox thinking and a lack of genuine ambition.
Yeah, that is a weird article... But hard to unpick a bunch of selected quotes.
Yeah, saw a clothes shop open that had displays of Haribo in the window. I wondered if they were trying to get round things by pretending they were selling food or some other absolute bollocks. (They've big windows so you can see in and couldn't see in passing how else they could be open as apart from that, it looked like their usual stock.)
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
It should still be said though! And keep being said!
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
Technically you and your dad could be in a support bubble with your sister cause she's a single mum. Unless she has another support bubble.
I don't think bins are a problem.
magneze
🎧
Somehow Argos is open around here.
elbows
Well-Known Member
The quotes make more sense when pre-pandemic orthodox wisdom is taken into account, and when the history of certain people that were quoted is taken into account.
I cant do the full subject justice right now, but in terms of orthodox approach and lack of ambition, such things are also present in the very first posts I made about this pandemic. When I spoke about how if the new virus could transmit very effectively between people, humanity would not stop it or even really try to. It is a source of regret that I've spend much of the pandemic commentating on what was happening and what might happen next, instead of what should happen next. I attempted to compensate for this later by picking at various aspects of the orthodox approach, but my ideas were still limited.
As for specific people that were quoted, Woolhouse is the obvious one to pick on. Pandemic cunt. May occasionally come out with something sensible I agree with, but for sure an example of how much horror a particular narrow view can impose. He saw lockdown as something that caused more harm than good, eg in this quote from August:
Lockdown was a “monumental mistake on a global scale”, claims UK scientist – TheLiberal.ie – Our News, Your Views
One of the UK government’s top scientific advisers on infectious diseases has said that the Covid-19…
theliberal.ie
That sort of thing alone is enough for me to view him as a dangerous shithead in this pandemic. And the shitty nature of his stance is made worse when exploring what he actually did on a personal level compared to the approach he would have the rest of us take. This article is from last April:
Scottish Govt coronavirus advisor slammed for moving to island holiday home
Professor Mark Woolhouse, who sits on Nicola Sturgeon's Covid-19 taskforce, has angered residents on a tiny Hebridean island.
Cid
Proper break this time
This is the sort of practical exception (I don't think it even is an exception really) that really is going to be fine... It's something that needs to be done, and doesn't actually result in any contact. Well, wash hands.
Again, what it is critical to avoid is any unnecessary indoor contact. The added layers of caution and uncertainty mean that outdoor social contact is also limited...
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