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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Does anyone have any idea what's going to happen now? Neither case numbers and certainly not hospitalizations having reached anywhere near peak yet, I imagine, and the lockdown still so much looser than March..?
What is the plan, if indeed there is one? Nightingales occasionally being mentioned but the staffing question never answered.
I am beyond terrified now for myself and friends who might be in need of any kind of hospital care.
I would be utterly unsurprised to learn that there was nothing worthy of the name "plan", tbh.

As far as Nightingale hospitals are concerned, I'm slightly surprised that they haven't transferred some specialist staff to those so that they use them for known covid cases and keep general hospitals as free of covid as possible.

I'm sure there would be some logistical problems with this, but to continue trying to run normal hospital business and covid stuff in the same buildings while these other places are standing empty doesn't make sense to me.
 
The return of clap for carers (this time clap for heroes) leaves me with very mixed feelings because in addition to the reasons to have mixed feelings about it last time, this time I am also sickened by the way the pandemic is treated so differently when it affects regions in the south. Was there nobody worth clapping for when the North was suffering a huge amount of death and hospital strain months ago?

I'm no big fan of it, and even less so if it's now for "heroes" but surely anyone could have started doing it in the North of England, when things were bad there, if they'd wanted to? I don't think anyone needs permission from anyone in any particular part of the country.
 
I don't see lockdown in London working as this morning I shared an absolutely packed tube with construction workers going to build luxary flats in Vauxhall. How the fuck are they keyworkers. Many not wearing masks. Easily enough to keep covid ticking over for a few weeks.

That is CRAZY. We're about to go into a circuit breaker lockdown in the Isle of Man and pretty much everything is shutting down including all construction work and nurseries as well as schools. We also have to wear masks the whole time we're outside our home
 
That is CRAZY. We're about to go into a circuit breaker lockdown in the Isle of Man and pretty much everything is shutting down including all construction work and nurseries as well as schools. We also have to wear masks the whole time we're outside our home

How many cases are there on the IoM?

I thought it was all under control there.
 
I'm no big fan of it, and even less so if it's now for "heroes" but surely anyone could have started doing it in the North of England, when things were bad there, if they'd wanted to? I don't think anyone needs permission from anyone in any particular part of the country.

Sure, if it were a purely spontaneous grassroots thing.

Thats not been the case with this though. Its an idea that was copied from elesewhere and then promoted and used via mainstream channels of various sorts.

That fact it is being promoted again now tells me not just stuff about the political geography of the country, but also various ways in which the 'november national measures' were not intended to strongly resemble the original lockdown.

Schools and primary aged children are probably part of the equation, an obvious difference between November and this time/the first time.
 
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I don't see lockdown in London working as this morning I shared an absolutely packed tube with construction workers going to build luxary flats in Vauxhall. How the fuck are they keyworkers. Many not wearing masks. Easily enough to keep covid ticking over for a few weeks.
Rightly or wrongly construction workers are specifically excluded from lockdown, so them going to work doesn't indicate others are also going to carry on going in. Has anyone been keeping an eye on traffic levels? They barely changed in lockdown 2 and I'm hoping it will be different this time.
 
Rightly or wrongly construction workers are specifically excluded from lockdown, so them going to work doesn't indicate others are also going to carry on going in. Has anyone been keeping an eye on traffic levels? They barely changed in lockdown 2 and I'm hoping it will be different this time.

Wrongly, unless they're building hospitals.
 
Rightly or wrongly construction workers are specifically excluded from lockdown, so them going to work doesn't indicate others are also going to carry on going in. Has anyone been keeping an eye on traffic levels? They barely changed in lockdown 2 and I'm hoping it will be different this time.
Traffic where I am is definitely way down.
 
That is CRAZY. We're about to go into a circuit breaker lockdown in the Isle of Man and pretty much everything is shutting down including all construction work and nurseries as well as schools. We also have to wear masks the whole time we're outside our home

So crazy. :( And yes please, masks outside the home, at all times. Surely now is the time to do it? If this variant really is believed to be 50+% more transmissible, how can it be okay at current rates to even go for a walk with someone not from your household without a mask. Walking and chatting for an hour may then well be enough. Let alone people working without masks together in indoor environments when it's not customer facing work. :(
I also think that a lot of people have gotten used to certain things, like hanging around outside drinking with friends and thinking it's fine, because they haven't got covid from it. But with infection rates this high, the picture completely changes - because of course every activity is covid-safe as long as there is noone involved with actual covid! (I know this is actually not supposed to happen anymore under the new rules, but just trying to illustrate what I think might be a mindset).
I really fear that even this supposed "hard" lockdown (reported in some continental European media as a "curfew") is too little, too late. Again. :(
 
Does anyone have any idea what's going to happen now? Neither case numbers and certainly not hospitalizations having reached anywhere near peak yet, I imagine, and the lockdown still so much looser than March..?
What is the plan, if indeed there is one? Nightingales occasionally being mentioned but the staffing question never answered.
I am beyond terrified now for myself and friends who might be in need of any kind of hospital care.

Public data doesnt give me much ability to predict the future.

It is possible to see which way the deaths will go in the next few weeks by looking at positive case & hospital admissions data. But beyond that, so far in this pandemic, byt the time data is published there is not very much timing difference between hospital admissions and positive case data, to the extent that it has not been a worthwhile exercise to try to use one to predict the other. So I wont have a better idea of when hospitalisations will peak than anyone else, no matter how hard I study data and past correlations. So I cannot predict hospitalisation peaks before they happen. Number of people in hospital does lag behind number of hospital admissions, so I can use one to come up with expectations about the other.

The authorities likely have a modest data advantage compared to what & when I can see publicly. They have a significant modelling advantage.

I should start looking at mobility data again, since that can offer clues of various sorts.

In terms of plans, a lot of it will be of the disaster and emergency response sort, and a lot of that stuff is stuff I dont want to go on about constantly unless we actually reach that point. And plenty of public comms related stuff, and probably some moments where they will take the opportunity to tighten up on certain things.

In terms of people having gloomy expectations in terms of how strong lockdown is and how well it will work, I would not want to put people off from examining the large holes and failures there, but I recommend looking at things from several other angles too. Behaviours that are incompatible with halting pandemic spread stick out like a sore thumb, but should not detract from thoughts about all the areas where behaviours have massively changed. Some very large brakes have been slammed on by shuting schools, joining the brakes applied with hospitality & retail got shuttered. And the authorities probably know that in order to bring things back down to a level they can cope with better, they dont need to close every single door in the face of this virus, as long as they close most of the largest doors. If they leave some stuff going in a way that allows infection to carry on spreading within that sector, they may still manage to get their overall numbers to come to where they need them to be, and then later they can zoom in and start to tackle some of these areas. That is not the approach I would have taken, far from it, Im just suggesting that even in acute moments of danger where they have run out of wiggle room to avoid some of the biggest brakes being applied, they can still hope to get away with not engaging every single smaller brake at the same time. And I'd have to anticipate them being that slack, because a regime that wasnt sloppy like that would have been more likely to do the right things long ago to prevent us getting anywhere near this level of doom in the first place.
 
Rightly or wrongly construction workers are specifically excluded from lockdown, so them going to work doesn't indicate others are also going to carry on going in. Has anyone been keeping an eye on traffic levels? They barely changed in lockdown 2 and I'm hoping it will be different this time.
Lots of people are specifically excluded from lockdown by the instruction that those who can't do their work from home should still go to work.

There's also an interesting difference between the list of "critical workers," whose children can still attend school and those who are still expected to work.

I'm still working, even though my job is definitely not "critical", because the government has essentially made a decision to have only a partial lockdown which doesn't apply equally to everyone.
 
Traffic here isn't as quiet as it was in the first lockdown and there are more people around but then with more shops and businesses open there is going to be.

Mind you Thames Valley Police were stopping cars crossing over Maidenhead Bridge yesterday to ask why they were leaving Maidenhead. The answer "'Cos it' s shit" was not deemed acceptable :D

 
And as frogwoman (as I recall) pointed out last year, Professor Gupta estimated that 50% of the population had already been infected by March and the epidemic could already have been on the way out. Which suggests nobody should take what she says seriously.

I was just thinking that Gupta and pals had gone strangely quiet in recent months.

I mean really, if you're an academic who is putting yourself forward as a person with important ideas about very important public health issues and those ideas are subsequently proven to be a steaming pile of shit you should really come out and say so. You may have fucked up being a famous scientist but it's not too late to be a famous role model for how to own your mistakes with a modicum of class and dignity.
 
We already have more hospitals than there are doctors, nurses and other medical staff for, so there's not even much point building any more of them ATM.

We already have far more luxury flats than homeless yuppies but they keep getting built for some reason.
 
Traffic in Sheffield doesn’t seem anything like lockdown 1. I wasn’t around at rush hour mind you... it does seem substantially down, but not as significantly. I notice other stuff too... What counts as essential retail is wider than ld1. Tool/diy stuff is mostly open as normal from what I can tell... this was not the case last time (iirc short period of closure, or closure to public, then most on click and collect). More widely I think it’s less likely that light manufacturing firms will go for full furlough, as some did last time.

And my local estate agents are continuing to clump together in their office.

Still hopeful, let’s see.
 
Went the local park for a walk and there were quite a few groups of young mums with school age kids, all walking and playing together. Kinda defeats the object of the schools being shut.
 
no, quite the opposite.

Well I guess it was just a fool's hope on my part that she'd have the decency to go away.

I've been avoiding BBC coverage wherever possible. They had noted epidemiologist Toby Young on yesterday as well apparently.
 
Is she at least getting a proper grilling these days?
I happened upon that interview yesterday and she seemed to be kind of rambling and not really being challenged on many specifics (except the issue of NHS getting overwhelmed which she got around by saying it wasn't in her area of expertise so didn't want to comment).
 
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