Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[Andrew Hertford]

you've declared protesters the equivalent of Nazi's.

Not me, although I did compare anarchists who brought violence to a peaceful demonstration about five years ago to Nazis. How is this relevant?

But while we’re on the subject, I wonder what JC would say?
Jeremy Corbyn: we do not support violent protest

“I am not in favour of violence on the streets or insurrection, I believe in doing things through persuasive democratic means. That is what we have a democratic political structure for. People have spent their lives fighting for democracy.”

I guess he’d get called a ‘tory cunt’ if he came on here and said that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Certain posters make a big deal about polling numbers, and use terms such as "...the electorate's obvious distrust", but don't even acknowledge that those polling numbers are in the face of a concerted and sustained "monstering" campaign, the likes of which hasn't been seen since PillKinnock. That "obvious distrust" is very obviously (to anyone capable of setting aside their own issues regarding the man) an artefact of that campaign.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not me, although I did compare anarchists who brought violence to a peaceful demonstration about five years ago to Nazis. How is this relevant?

But while we’re on the subject, I wonder what JC would say?
Jeremy Corbyn: we do not support violent protest

“I am not in favour of violence on the streets or insurrection, I believe in doing things through persuasive democratic means. That is what we have a democratic political structure for. People have spent their lives fighting for democracy.”

I guess he’d get called a ‘tory cunt’ if he came on here and said that.

Liar.
You compared the smashing of few windows to Kristallnacht, you pathetic jism-stain.

 

[irf520]

A market crash. Look what happened in Greece - the dominant party ended up with 3% of the vote

But it wasn't transformed into a socialist paradise, was it? The "left winger" who won huffed and puffed for a bit then folded up like a cheap suit and the Greeks ended up taking it up the arse harder than ever.

 

[treelover]

I think the key thing that will render media bias irrelevant is what is already happening; namely that over the last few years, fairly decent chunks of society have become engaged in some form of struggle over something that has a basic and direct impact on their lives for the first time and that is shaping peoples outlook and causing them to view society differently. I sometimes think we obsess a bit on the left about putting over an "alternative narrative" as somebody's bound to be about to say/has said. People learning things for themselves is the only thing that really renders the power of the media obsolete.

Thats what all left wing politics should be about, no need for vanguards, etc.

 

[treelover]

I've been nosing on a junior doctor's strike discussion forum, and seeing how the current clusterfuck has radicalised them is very heartening - they're all making connections about whats going on way beyond the limits of their own dispute.

Any link? Ta

 

[killer b]

It isn't an open forum sorry.

 

[existentialist]

and then, a few months later?...

The Tories; economic credibility was shot from September 1992 Black Wednesday to when 2008 happened. It didn't matter that Labour, Lib Dems had been pro ERM before, it happened on the Tories' watch. (to a significant number perhaps in 2010, it didn't matter that before the crash the Tories were arguing for less City regulation , the crash happened on Labour's watch)

The economic outlook seems sluggish at best, maybe dire. Expect similar falls in ruling party support at least.
An alternative economic plan to neo liberalism (apparently being worked on now and across Europe) would help.

I suppose one possibility is that other European governments reject the neolib experiment and start making things work with a different approach, and, as is the way of these things, we find ourselves being drawn in the same direction.

After all, we have had neoliberalism across enough of Europe and the US, with all its economic consequences, particularly at the lower-income end of the scale, for a long time. And, for all but a small percentage of the population, it isn't working. It wouldn't be surprising for there to be a growing popular (though not yet political) desire to find an alternative way.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Thats what all left wing politics should be about, no need for vanguards, etc.

But we need the revolutionary party comrade.

 

[SpackleFrog]

But it wasn't transformed into a socialist paradise, was it? The "left winger" who won huffed and puffed for a bit then folded up like a cheap suit and the Greeks ended up taking it up the arse harder than ever.

It's never a straightforward process, and it's still ongoing.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

But we need the revolutionary party comrade.

Could I interest you in our paper or even a subscription to our theoretical journal?

Comradely greetings - Louis MacNeice

 

[nino_savatte]

Savette

Why are you still misspelling my name? Can't you read?

 

[nino_savatte]

Then I don’t know what Savette was implying, but being on the receiving end it sounded that way to me. What’s striking is that instead of addressing the issues I’ve raised, he simply hurls inane schildish abuse, presumably to make up for his inability to come up with any rational counter argument…. and then goes and has a major fit of the vapours himself when I spell his name wrong.

You're such a sensitive soul, aren't you? Diddums.

But that last sentence is rather interesting and not for the reason you think.

Thanks for derailing the thread, btw. This isn't about you.

 

[killer b]

That's right, its serviette.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Reading through Labour blogs, one that caught my attention argued:

"We need a culture change. I suggest looking at:

• As a party, learn to debate reasonably, so we have disagreements not fights. Both left and right of the party seem convinced that organising is the way to shape the party, never persuasion.
• Recreate routes for working class people to get into politics. And by “working class” I mean manual workers and unskilled labourers who haven’t even gone to university.
• Give up on identity politics. We are not the arbiters of who is or is not sexist or racist. Positive discrimination makes us look utterly unconcerned with fair treatment of individuals.
• Don’t let any issue be a taboo. Immigration is the obvious issue, but we are becoming equally unable to articulate sensible thoughts on benefit spending too.
• Stop arguing over the record of the last Labour government. And in particular, don’t make future policy on the basis of continuing, or correcting, the policy of the last Labour government.
• Stop attacking the media whenever we are unable to get good coverage.

Ideally, we could have a Labour Party that wasn’t dominated by underachieving middle class people who work in the public sector (like me) arguing over history and developing grudges about things nobody in the real world cares about."

I agree with it.

 

[nino_savatte]

It depends what you mean by ‘credible alternative’, surely it means a Labour Party which appeals to enough voters to get elected (and yes that will include sometime tory voters). I reject the assumption that Labour can only get into government by either out torying the tories or by embracing Corbynism. I don't think the majority of voters want either.

I’m not ‘terrified about the prospect of Corbyn as prime minister’ at all, why would I be? Crobyn’s politics aren’t very different to mine and I would be delighted if Labour won in 2020 with him as leader. What ‘terrifies’ me more than anything is the tories winning again and being in government until 2025.

You are right about evidence and it is difficult to prove that JC won’t win Labour the next election, although given his poll ratings I suggest it would be even harder to make the case that he will. I’m afraid that 60% among Labour members isn’t going to translate into anything near the 35%-40% of voters in total needed to win even a narrow majority.

Also, along with the electorate’s obvious distrust of him over the economy, probably the biggest obstacle Labour have to winning in 2020 is Corbyn’s opposition to nuclear weapons. Unfortunately the British people are wedded to the idea of an independent deterrent and imo they’ll never vote to scrap it. There’s also the question of his age, he’ll have turned 71 by the next election and 76 by the end of his first term. It shouldn’t matter, but who can honestly say that it won’t to a significant number of voters?

The issue for me is still how to defeat the tories in 2020 and unless anyone can convince me otherwise, I can’t see Labour having a cat-in-hells with JC.

You're either confused or you're trolling. The question is: which is it? \

But this is a biscuit-taker and a half:

Unfortunately the British people are wedded to the idea of an independent deterrent and imo they’ll never vote to scrap it.

Where's your evidence?

There’s also the question of his age, he’ll have turned 71 by the next election and 76 by the end of his first term.

Gladstone was 82 when he was last elected as PM. So what?

 

[treelover]

Gladstone was 82 when he was last elected as PM. So what?

Another age, before TV, 24 hour news, social media, the infantilisation of modern society, etc.

 

[nino_savatte]

Another age, before TV, 24 hour news, social media, the infantilisation of modern society, etc.

Which tells us what exactly? That some people are more concerned with appearances? I once had a Twitter exchange with someone who said more or less the same thing: "he's too old" she opined, "he won't appeal to young people". Well, guess what? Corbyn does appeal to young people.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

You're such a sensitive soul, aren't you? Diddums.

But that last sentence is rather interesting and not for the reason you think.

Thanks for derailing the thread, btw. This isn't about you.

I haven't derailed it, all my posts have been about Jeremy Corbyn.

It's you who keeps talking about me.

 

[nino_savatte]

I haven't derailed it, all my posts have been about Jeremy Corbyn.

It's you who keeps talking about me.

Nonsense.

 

[existentialist]

Reading through Labour blogs, one that caught my attention argued:

"We need a culture change. I suggest looking at:

• As a party, learn to debate reasonably, so we have disagreements not fights. Both left and right of the party seem convinced that organising is the way to shape the party, never persuasion.
• Recreate routes for working class people to get into politics. And by “working class” I mean manual workers and unskilled labourers who haven’t even gone to university.
• Give up on identity politics. We are not the arbiters of who is or is not sexist or racist. Positive discrimination makes us look utterly unconcerned with fair treatment of individuals.
• Don’t let any issue be a taboo. Immigration is the obvious issue, but we are becoming equally unable to articulate sensible thoughts on benefit spending too.
• Stop arguing over the record of the last Labour government. And in particular, don’t make future policy on the basis of continuing, or correcting, the policy of the last Labour government.
• Stop attacking the media whenever we are unable to get good coverage.

Ideally, we could have a Labour Party that wasn’t dominated by underachieving middle class people who work in the public sector (like me) arguing over history and developing grudges about things nobody in the real world cares about."

I agree with it.

It looks bloody suss to me . Link?

 

[stethoscope]

It looks bloody suss to me . Link?

Appears to come from here:
Changing The Culture Of The Party | @oldandrewuk

 

[existentialist]

Appears to come from here:
Changing The Culture Of The Party | @oldandrewuk

OK, so written by what comes across like an unreconstructed Blairite with a pretty blatant policy of taking digs at Corbyn and his support. Discountable, I think.

 

[Tankus]

Isn't he dead yet ?

 

[MarkyMarrk]

It looks bloody suss to me . Link?

What do you mean?

 

[two sheds]

Mass executions coming up according to the Inde. Possibly by beheading possibly all at once by machine gun, they don't specify:

Corbyn critics ‘fear bloodbath’ after constituency boundary changes

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Mass executions coming up according to the Inde. Possibly by beheading possibly all at once by machine gun, they don't specify:

Corbyn critics ‘fear bloodbath’ after constituency boundary changes

They really don't care about winning elections.

 

[killer b]

Indeed, their constant whining, sniping and criticism of the leadership does make the party appear more divided, and less attractive to voters.

 

[Nylock]

Well, they had to come out as Tory plants sooner or later....

 

[two sheds]

Indeed, their constant whining, sniping and criticism of the leadership does make the party appear more divided, and less attractive to voters.

Yep and they'd be the first to demand that MPs behave honourably and unite behind the leader if a Blairite was in charge.