Cameron launches "Big Society"

[Proper Tidy]

No Cuban statistics are internationally verified. Most Cubans are either too bored or resigned to care.

Lol. That's a bare faced fucking lie. The stats on, for example, child mortality, are verified and internationally accepted.

Cuba is politically repressive, and the people are clearly hungry for a degree of change - but this feast or famine bollocks which paints Cuba out to be a Caribbean Albania is bollocks. Quite why Cuba's critics persist in ignoring the extremely high standards of health and education is beyond me.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I'm sure our COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE man from the beeb knows better than the UN folks tasked with doing these stats across the board. Ex-ambassador. Lol. You went away for half an hour and came back with the whining of someone who used to be there. Well done.

I was having my dinner, an ad-hominem attack, is that all you have?

 

[DotCommunist]

Yes, I sure played the man not the ball here. You ejit.

 

[sleaterkinney]

And the report of an ambassador got under freedom of information can be dismissed why?

 

[DotCommunist]

what, other than vested interest? I am at a loss.

 

[sleaterkinney]

If that's good enough for you...

 

[Proper Tidy]

And the report of an ambassador got under freedom of information can be dismissed why?

Because it is bollocks. The ambassador was lying.

 

[DotCommunist]

you know, when I make an arse of myself I generally don't carry on. That is just me though.

 

[sleaterkinney]

you know, when I make an arse of myself I generally don't carry on. That is just me though.

I'm not so sure about that.

 

[DotCommunist]

Yes dear, you had it handed to on a silver fucking platter and have had nothing to come back with. On your way, jogger.

 

[dennisr]

a lot of people never think twice and just reckon there owed a living.

Yep Edie - I've read reams of bollocks and name calling in newspapers run by fuckers who have never paid a penny of tax. The difference between you and me is I'm not dumb enough to believe it.

Edie - you are welcome to keep wasting your time trying to point the finger at the wrong 'problem' for as long as you like while paying for the bankers bonuses - the biggest parasites on the planet. But the least you can do for the rest of us, the folk held down by the inanity of fuckwits like you is to fuck off back to daytime/soap TV and wanking threads and stick with em - rather than wasting peoples time. Fairy nuff?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Urg. Entitlement. You should be admiring the older generation for not wanting to be a burden. They've got the right attitude, not like it is now where a lot of people never think twice and just reckon there owed a living.

You've got no fucking clue.
The elderly have entitlements, entitlements they've paid for since they left school. Their receiving what they're entitled to isn't a "burden", it's a quid pro quo. They fulfilled their side of the social contract by supporting the state, they have an absolute contractual right to expect the state to return the favour.

I mean no offense, cos he's a lovely bloke, but look at DotCom. He's obviously a well clever young bloke in his twenties, good education and fit and all the rest, could probably do pretty much whatever he wanted. Yet he don't want, so he has what seems like pretty long times on the dole. He obviously thinks he's entitled to do that.

You pay in to protect those who fall through the net and genuinely need help. You pay for the NHS so that there aren't people who are dying for lack of a doctor, and in case you become seriously ill. If you don't NEED the help, or your don't NEED hospital treatment that doesn't mean your 'entitled' to your 'share' of the money you paid in. That's just not how it's meant to work

I don't think anyone has raised people demanding "their share of the money" from the NHS.

You're flailing.

Again.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If I had a totalitarian state I'd make sure the stats were good too.

Even the independent figures from the various UN organs such as the W.H.O.?

 

[DotCommunist]

s he's a lovely bloke, but look at DotCom. He's obviously a well clever young bloke in his twenties, good education and fit and all the rest, could probably do pretty much whatever he wanted. Yet he don't want, so he has what seems like pretty long times on the dole. He obviously thinks he's entitled to do that.

missed this. Excuse fucking me but I make every effort to get work, so don't you dare use me as an example. And I AM entitled, I've done my fair share of work when and if it is there. Not only that mine are all ex military as far as I can trace them so they got mugged off twice.

I declare umbrage.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yep Edie - I've read reams of bollocks and name calling in newspapers run by fuckers who have never paid a penny of tax. The difference between you and me is I'm not dumb enough to believe it.

Well, the problem with the way the media and the neo-lib politics they shill for represent these issues is that they use the principle of "the big lie". In case Edie is wondering what "the big lie" is, it's an approach to propaganda that was coined by Adolf Hitler, who said that one can easily get away with telling a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.", especially when the lie has a kernel of truth. This is pretty much how the pols and the media are trying to sell this "big society" schtick: By telling a big lie that includes a kernel of truth about peoples' desire for a more community-centred approach to life.

 

[ViolentPanda]

missed this. Excuse fucking me but I make every effort to get work, so don't you dare use me as an example. And I AM entitled, I've done my fair share of work when and if it is there. Not only that mine are all ex military as far as I can trace them so they got mugged off twice.

Yes, but you're dastardly enough not to take shit when they try to hand it to you, and many of those who share the views Edie is expressing believe that you really should take any old shit the state tries to hand you, and be grateful for it.

I declare umbrage.

And so you should.

 

[DownwardDog]

circumstances and tech weren't up to it. Still, the cuban literacy and lack of child malnutrition look pretty good compared to the US nieghbour, richest nation in the world. Oh how silent the CIA wannabes are on that front.

This isn't a ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougoandlivethere response but have you ever considered going to Cuba for a visit, DC? You obviously think it's got some instructive value for us; aren't you ever tempted to go and have a look for yourself? Fuck knows, it's cheap enough.

 

[_angel_]

Urg. Entitlement. You should be admiring the older generation for not wanting to be a burden. They've got the right attitude, not like it is now where a lot of people never think twice and just reckon there owed a living. I mean no offense, cos he's a lovely bloke, but look at DotCom. He's obviously a well clever young bloke in his twenties, good education and fit and all the rest, could probably do pretty much whatever he wanted. Yet he don't want, so he has what seems like pretty long times on the dole. He obviously thinks he's entitled to do that.

No state pension then? Compulsory euthanasia?
Anyone talking about people as 'burdens' makes me shudder.

 

[_angel_]

missed this. Excuse fucking me but I make every effort to get work, so don't you dare use me as an example. And I AM entitled, I've done my fair share of work when and if it is there. Not only that mine are all ex military as far as I can trace them so they got mugged off twice.

I declare umbrage.

Come on DotC the economic situation has nothing to do with not being able to look for a job, it's all down to your own personal will.

 

[_angel_]

Yes, but you're dastardly enough not to take shit when they try to hand it to you, and many of those who share the views Edie is expressing believe that you really should take any old shit the state tries to hand you, and be grateful for it.

And so you should.

Why would you pay into a private insurance scheme that turned around and called you a 'burden' and 'scrounger' when you needed the service you had paid into-- then one that refused to pay out under the terms you signed up for, demeaned you for doing so (while also asking you to come and work for nothing for them) but kept taking your money??
Why is it ok for a state to do that?

 

[rekil]

missed this. Excuse fucking me but I make every effort to get work, so don't you dare use me as an example. And I AM entitled, I've done my fair share of work when and if it is there. Not only that mine are all ex military as far as I can trace them so they got mugged off twice.

I declare umbrage.

You heard the woman. Off you fuck.

 

[dennisr]

Why would you pay into a private insurance scheme that turned around and called you a 'burden' and 'scrounger' when you needed the service you had paid into-- then one that refused to pay out under the terms you signed up for, demeaned you for doing so (while also asking you to come and work for nothing for them) but kept taking your money??
Why is it ok for a state to do that?

As someone was pointing out on another thread - the "debt" the government talks about is, to a great extent "owed" to big pension schemes and suchlike. Ultimately, one could argue this "debt" (the one working people like you and me are being told we have to pay - given the money pissed up the wall by the government to bail out the banking systems cock-up) is literally owed to all those pensioners who have paid out of their earnings. It is not just an entitlement - as payback for money put in - its a debt owed to those people.

Edie does not do irony - she does do 'bring and buys' though - if you can believe her.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why would you pay into a private insurance scheme that turned around and called you a 'burden' and 'scrounger' when you needed the service you had paid into-- then one that refused to pay out under the terms you signed up for, demeaned you for doing so (while also asking you to come and work for nothing for them) but kept taking your money??
Why is it ok for a state to do that?

It isn't, but unfortunately decades of welfare being misrepresented as a "hand out" from government (which it isn't) rather than (as is the reality) the fruits of a near-universal pooled risk insurance scheme (and one that still runs a surplus and has massive reserves) lead people like Edie to spout a lot of the arrant crap that they do.
As for the state, they will always get away with shit like this as long as there are people, small-minded bitter people, begrudgers, who are prepared to buy the government line.

 

[Edie]

Come on DotC the economic situation has nothing to do with not being able to look for a job, it's all down to your own personal will.

Get to fuck, economic situation. He's a well clever lad, he could train to do almost anything he wanted, not just take jobs here and there. Specially a young man in his twenties, no kids. It's not like he's been working in one trade all his life and would need to retrain or loose skills he'd built up, or that he's got kids like you have that need a Mum (Dad) to bring them up. I just honestly think it's a shame he aint out there DOING something really useful for himself and society. Improving himself lol

Yeah take umbrage DotCom, I suck cocks for a fiver anyway. You don't give a shit what my opinion is, but I think you're wasting your talents.

Oh and I never said burden, ViolentPanda used to term to describe how the older generation see claiming benefits they feel they can do without. Anyone that needs help, go ahead and claim cos that's what it's there for. But don't claim cos you think you've paid into some saving account that means the money is rightfully yours. I hope never to claim, and the money I pay in goes to someone who is more unlucky (ill or just can't find work). But if I do get poorly, like if my husband's arthritis gets so bad he can't work and for whatever reason I can't either, then I'd claim.

 

[treelover]

Edie, Urbans very own 'ragged trousered philanthropist'

 

[Streathamite]

Get to fuck, economic situation. He's a well clever lad, he could train to do almost anything he wanted, not just take jobs here and there. Specially a young man in his twenties, no kids. It's not like he's been working in one trade all his life and would need to retrain or loose skills he'd built up, or that he's got kids like you have that need a Mum (Dad) to bring them up. I just honestly think it's a shame he aint out there DOING something really useful for himself and society. Improving himself lol

I am a professional recruiter. I interact with the job market every day (or part of it), and I have to say in my professional opinion that you are talking just about the biggest load of bollocks imaginable, given the current state of the job market, especially if you have very specialised skills. I have people on my books with goldplated CVs who've been out of work for 18 months. That's how hard it is, and it may yet get worse.
And that ignores a rather important wider question; if the global capitalist economy falls so far short of providing people with appropriate and fulfilling work, isn't that a rather damning indictment of said system? Why should DC, or anyone else, overcompensate for the failure of the system, and of those who are meant to guide it?

 

[Edie]

I am a professional recruiter. I interact with the job market every day (or part of it), and I have to say in my professional opinion that you are talking just about the biggest load of bollocks imaginable, given the current state of the job market, especially if you have very specialised skills. I have people on my books with goldplated CVs who've been out of work for 18 months. That's how hard it is, and it may yet get worse.
And that ignores a rather important wider question; if the global capitalist economy falls so far short of providing people with appropriate and fulfilling work, isn't that a rather damning indictment of said system? Why should DC, or anyone else, overcompensate for the failure of the system, and of those who are meant to guide it?

Work isn't appropriate or fulfilling all the fucking time. It's what you do to put food on the table and contribute to society. Great if it can be both them things, but fact is for most people it can't. It's a very priviledged position to go, ah, no fuck it that just aint fulfilling enough for me.

 

[frogwoman]

I think you may be missing the point here.

 

[DotCommunist]

Look edie, I don't want to moan at you over this cos I think you're not at heart a bad person. You've swallowed the myth of individualism hook line and sinker though. I'm over educated for a job market that isn't there. You know I want a job that pays me enough and nothing more than that right? I don't define through career or earning loads of money. That isn't what life is for.

 

[Pickman's model]

missed this. Excuse fucking me but I make every effort to get work, so don't you dare use me as an example. And I AM entitled, I've done my fair share of work when and if it is there. Not only that mine are all ex military as far as I can trace them so they got mugged off twice.

I declare umbrage.

in any case i am pleased to pay for people like dc.