Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
It’s just classic whataboutism, one of two arguments peddled by the slaughterhouse enthusiasts on this thread. The other is just to flat out deny reality.
Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?
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It’s just classic whataboutism, one of two arguments peddled by the slaughterhouse enthusiasts on this thread. The other is just to flat out deny reality.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I've mentioned several times how reforming agriculture comprises various virtuous circles. Better food, higher welfare for animals and workers, better sustainability, food security, increased biodiversity, reduced environmental degradation, reduced waste, and reduced dependence on fossil fuels all portentially go together.
Still doesn't add up to 'we must move away from meat cos global warming'. That's a silly slogan that isn't really true and doesn't even begin to touch on the real problems with farming. It also doesn't touch on the real problem causing global warming.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
do you supplement choline? or are meat free sources sufficient and practical?
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hiraethified
What evidence is there of vegetarians and vegans suffering from catastrophic chorine deficiencies?
*auto-correct typo fixed
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hiraethified
Oh go on. Stick up your lazy stereotyped bullshit if it makes you feel good, and I'll give you a list of vegan athletes who are stronger than you'll ever be. And then you'll look like an idiot.
I’m not sure you’ve entirely understood the role of choline (not chlorine) in the brain, there. Nor what the obvious joke is. But sure, if that makes you feel good.
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hiraethified
No, I insist. Let's hear your obvious joke. I'm sure it's not relying on lazy and ignorant stereotypes and certainly peppered with some hilarity about mental health. No need to be coy now!
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hiraethified
Wow. You really do go this low. Quite shameful.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
No idea, I didn't claim there was. Can you answer my question? We know that a diet that restricts optimal sources of Choline will have less choline
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hiraethified
Like just about everyone else, I don't knowingly supplement chorine because I've never seen any hard evidence suggesting that I need to, which is why I find it strange that you're asking me.
So, I'll ask again: what evidence have you seen that suggests that vegetarians and vegans are at risk from suffering catastrophic chorine deficiencies? If you know of no such evidence, then what is the point of the question?
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My BIL once went to the doctor with fatigue and got ordered to start eating chicken and fish.
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hiraethified
That's great to hear. Did you hear about the millions of people being advised to eat less meat too?
I’d try to avoid supplementing chlorine if I were you.
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hiraethified
Good job I've already made it clear I have no interest in doing so. I'm going to put you on ignore for a while because you're, frankly, a waste of space and time.
Seems a bit harsh. He was joking that you said chlorine, which is toxic. Rather than choline, which was what was being discussed.
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hiraethified
It's really not for you to decide or comment on who I decide to put on ignore. In fact, it's none of your business.
It was an auto-correct typo, which I've now fixed.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
A vegan diet is definitionally restrictive.
Choline is most present in foods vegans don't eat
Ergo, vegans need to take care of Choline. Just as they do with some other nutrients.
I don't know what you eat, whether or how you supplement. Neither am I offering a judhement on the diet or the choice to supplement. Nor am I making a claim that vegans cannot source Choline from food. I am simply asking how, for the reason I gave: it's most present in meat
You’re welcome.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
iron deficiency?
Could have been. I don’t remember the why.
butcher
boner at the ready
Ed has stated that he is not a vegan, so no need to worry that choline deficiency will necessarily affect him.
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hiraethified
Here:
Sources of Choline for Vegans - Plant foods that are especially rich in choline include tofu, soynuts, soymilk, cruciferous vegetables, cooked dried beans, quinoa, peanuts, and peanut butter. So plenty of sources in a regular diet then.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Many of the arguments put forward for targetting agriculture, and particularly meat production, over climate change are entirely disingenuous.
One figure I see stated around the place is that, if agriculture doesn't change, it will represent 50% of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions by the year 2050.
But how do they arrive at that figure? The only way that will be true is if fossil fuel burning has been reduced by something in the order of 80% or more. In other words, that stat assumes that the world will have successfully moved over to a totally new way of producing energy. No mean feat, and quite the assumption. And good news if so. If agriculture represents 50% of GG emissions in 2050, that will be the result of amazing achievements wrt fossil fuel use. But what would that mean, even then? If the bulk of the remainder of the GG emissions is still coming from fossil fuel use, that will still be the driver of climate change. Agriculture's emissions reach a state of equilibrium after a few years. Fossil fuel burning never reaches an equilibrium - burning just one lump of coal adds to global warming.
One figure I see stated around the place is that, if agriculture doesn't change, it will represent 50% of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions by the year 2050.
But how do they arrive at that figure? The only way that will be true is if fossil fuel burning has been reduced by something in the order of 80% or more. In other words, that stat assumes that the world will have successfully moved over to a totally new way of producing energy. No mean feat, and quite the assumption. And good news if so. If agriculture represents 50% of GG emissions in 2050, that will be the result of amazing achievements wrt fossil fuel use. But what would that mean, even then? If the bulk of the remainder of the GG emissions is still coming from fossil fuel use, that will still be the driver of climate change. Agriculture's emissions reach a state of equilibrium after a few years. Fossil fuel burning never reaches an equilibrium - burning just one lump of coal adds to global warming.
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hiraethified
And that opinion piece you posted up (complete with your own unpleasant mental health slur) has been thoroughly debunked anyway.Might explain a few things...............
Media hub - BMJ Group
Explore the latest published research, corporate updates, and insights from BMJ Group. Stay informed about cutting-edge scientific studies, medical innovations, and our impact on global healthcare.www.bmj.com
Clearing Up Choline Confusion
A new article is stirring up confusion about the nutrient choline. Don’t be confused: For the most healthful sources of choline, plant-based diets are the clear choice.
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hiraethified
butcher
boner at the ready
Research also shows that children who consume the most healthful fiber-rich diets have higher IQs when compared to those with a moderately healthy diet or high-fat diet. They also suffer from less anxiety and depression.
Maybe read the link you post:
Conclusion: There is evidence that a poor diet associated with high fat, sugar and processed food content in early childhood may be associated with small reductions in IQ in later childhood, while a healthy diet, associated with high intakes of nutrient rich foods described at about the time of IQ assessment may be associated with small increases in IQ.
Nothing about fibre.....................
The second link is hardly relevant either as they do not define diet beyond:
"Three major dietary patterns were identified in the study based on factor analysis: 'snack', 'animal food' and 'traditional'."
Maybe read the link you post:
Conclusion: There is evidence that a poor diet associated with high fat, sugar and processed food content in early childhood may be associated with small reductions in IQ in later childhood, while a healthy diet, associated with high intakes of nutrient rich foods described at about the time of IQ assessment may be associated with small increases in IQ.
Nothing about fibre.....................
The second link is hardly relevant either as they do not define diet beyond:
"Three major dietary patterns were identified in the study based on factor analysis: 'snack', 'animal food' and 'traditional'."
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