Brixton Playground scheme proposes permanent pedestrianisation of central Brixton
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organicpanda
cat herder extraodinaire
apart from the man with the grim reaper they look like the people outside the laundry yesterday
Just a thought (and very light-hearted) but - how about we say yes to the Playground but - no alcohol!!! Sticks to the idea of a playground but - open to many who will be excluded (including children as there's just no place for happy children amongst drinkers - often the folk who think 'children not welcome'). And all the greedy business people and the 'tourists' who have no idea of 'the real Brixton' - just won't bother. We'll live in peace again!!
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Possibly.
And a commercial rate per sqm for the space.
And a limit of perhaps 10% of the street being for the benefit of paying customers.
Strictly limited operating hours.
Carefully limited to encourage cafe style use and not be a smoking area / chill out for venues.
No amplified sound.
Toilets in any venue using the space to be made easily and obviously available to the public.
Business spaces to be designed so as to be welcomingly open to public outside operating hours but without furniture at night (discourage drunk crowds gathering out outside flats at night).
Come to think of it, making it a comfortable pedestrian space in the day will likely make it very attractive to drunk crowds and buskers at night (thinking CHL in particular here) so there needs to be a credible and enforceable way of controlling that, whoever leads / proposes it.
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editor
hiraethified
Because the street is generally quiet at night, there are no houses directly overlooking one side of the road (the Barrier Block is set a fair way back) and there is a long ongoing tradition of anti social behaviour, fights, shootings and general unpleasantness along that strip. I know many people who feel unsafe walking along that strip at night because of the amount of drunk people milling around.
There are regular street parties held in two areas that go on until the very early hours (not normally such a problem for me) but there's almost always violence and bottle throwing at the end. If the whole strip became pedestrianised I think it would just encourage more people to party here.
I'm normally 100% for pedestrianisation - I hate car culture - but I don't think it would be of a net benefit here and I'm not sure what the point would be as there's very little commercial activity here.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Yeah well at least they are within their curtilage - unlike the Chair of the Brixton Business Improvement District.
It is some years since the Sattay Bar erected poles to curtain off half the pavement outside their premises.
I remember discussing this with former Councillor St Rachel Heywood - actually on site. Rachel did what councillors always do - agreed I'd got a point and took out a memo pad and made a note.
I raise this particularly because someone said up thread that various businesses had benefited from Brixton Challenge funding. This could be checked, but the issue that bugs me here is that Brixton Challenge paid architect Greenhill Jenner (based in Shakespeare Road at the time) to design the Ritzy extension with social housing at the back, and with a restaurant/bar beneath on the Coldharbour Lane frontage.
A feature of the design was the arches - widening the pavement at that point.. Back in 1993 the pavement had been considered too narrow and was unsafe. Ms Foster and Brixton BID's new proposal gets round the issue by turning the whole of Coldharbour Lane into pavement.
And what about the elderly disabled shopppers from Moorlands Estate, Guinness Trust (sorry Electric Quarter), Loughborough Estate etc who want to catch the P5 opposite the Sattay Bar? "What P5?" I hear Brixton BID saying.
editor
hiraethified
You can see the old layout here
www.brixtonbuzz.com
www.brixtonbuzz.com
Brixton history: Coldharbour Lane in 1987, ghost sign, cafe, taxi and prize bingo where the Satay Bar now stands
We are indebted to urban75 poster happyshopper for this evocative photograph of a run-down strip of Coldharbour Lane taken in 1987.
www.brixtonbuzz.com
Brixton history: From shops to the Satay Bar at 447-453 Coldharbour Lane by Electric Lane, 1980-2017
Here’s an archive photo of Brixton from 1980 showing the western stretch of Coldharbour Lane, revealing the now-vanished row of shops close to the junction with Brixton Road. The biggest sell…
www.brixtonbuzz.com
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Bear in mind that the land must have belonged to LBL at the time.
So are you saying that Steve Reed or Lib Peck gave Ellie the land so she could curtain if off?
I think we should be told!
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I imagine the footprint of the building on the Land Registry includes the arches - after all above the arches are flats belonging to Metropolitan Housing Trust.
I would imagine if some busybody like me tried to insist on a right of way at this point the Satay Bar people would say that they had blocked off the right of way for 7 years (say) therefore it doesn't exist..
Now we are discussing it I recall that at the beginning they agreed to take the tarpaulins down out of hours when they first sectioned the space off. They also put in a planning application to box it in like a conservatory - which was refused.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
CHL is vital for ambulances. I can't see any mentions of this anywhere. I don't see how pedestrianisation of CHL can be up for discussion. It would affect patient outcomes at one of the principal A&E services for the South East. CHL is also very heavily used by the other emergency services. If you made all the blue light journeys detour on to other roads there'd be chaos.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
When CHL outside the Dogstar is obstructed by roadworks/gas main repairs etc, you get the emergency services, plus bin lorries and HGVs, detouring to Saltoun Road. It's not a pretty sight. The idea of shutting that stretch of CHL to vehicles permanently ....it's just fucking batshit craziness.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
The way I see this entire plan is an attempt to enlarge the queuing and smoking areas for the Rum Kitchen, Market House and the Satay Bar. Pre-COVID it was usual for pedestrians to be forced to walk into the road because of crowds of customers. Market House was the worst offender - they have a large curtilage, fenced off, but they want to fill it with tables and chairs so they also steal half the pavement by roping it off for their queue. The pavement is very narrow there. When they rope half of it off, only one person can pass. (I complained to the owner and was ignored.) Seems to me they are guilty of obstruction. If they reopen after Covid with the same arrangement they'll make it impossible to distance yourself from the saliva of drunks without standing in the middle of the road. We already know that crowds of drunks are excellent at aerosolization of COVID. Those of us who want to avoid catching this disease will need to wear masks and face shields just so rich bar owners can make even more money.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I was trying to cycle through Soho just after 5pm today.
Greek street , DArbly street was closed off with barriers and security. Tables and chairs on the pavement belonging to restaurents and bars.
Not even cycles allowed.
I was not best pleased.
Then went through Cvent Garden and came up with the same.
Didnt have time for photos. But from security gaurd shouting at me and the signs looks like this is going to happen form 5pm to 11 pm every day.
I think Old Compton street is the same.
This is all about outdoor space for restaurents and bars. Saw parts of Berwick street narrowed off for this.
Not great if one is cycling.
Ive no problem with widening pavement for pedestrians but not for bars/ restaurents.
Starting to think after what I saw today in Soho / Covent Garden that Brixton BID idea could get support from the Council.
Greek street , DArbly street was closed off with barriers and security. Tables and chairs on the pavement belonging to restaurents and bars.
Not even cycles allowed.
I was not best pleased.
Then went through Cvent Garden and came up with the same.
Didnt have time for photos. But from security gaurd shouting at me and the signs looks like this is going to happen form 5pm to 11 pm every day.
I think Old Compton street is the same.
This is all about outdoor space for restaurents and bars. Saw parts of Berwick street narrowed off for this.
Not great if one is cycling.
Ive no problem with widening pavement for pedestrians but not for bars/ restaurents.
Starting to think after what I saw today in Soho / Covent Garden that Brixton BID idea could get support from the Council.
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David Clapson
Well-Known Member
I think the emergency services argument will carry the day. I emailed London Ambulance Service about it today. Please everyone spread the word.
editor
hiraethified
Please keep us informed.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
You realise this proposal is just an idea thrown out by Brixton BID? There is no chance it's going to happen on the basis of what's been presented at this stage. If it got to the stage where it was being talked about as a real possibility, then TfL, the emergency services and so on would have to be consulted formally. Loads of angry people emailing the Ambulance Service about a speculative proposal is just wasting their time.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
The BID people are the ones responsible for the time-wasting. If they had an ounce of common sense they'd have seen this problem before inflicting their greedy amateurish bollocks on the rest of us.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Given that the powers the Council has to shut roads during the pandemic mean that normal consultation is suspended I think its fair enough for David Clapson to say email Ambulance service. Though I would say that it would be better to email Cllrs.
The proposal from the BID is clearly trying to get this through now when consultation with local community is limited.
The Council dont have to consult local residents to bring in road closures at this time. They do have to consult emergency services.
The proposal from the BID is clearly trying to get this through now when consultation with local community is limited.
The Council dont have to consult local residents to bring in road closures at this time. They do have to consult emergency services.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
There's absolutely no point in people hassling the Ambulance Service with their opinions. Even if this was a real proposal that they were being consulted on, it would be up to them to decide whether it was going to cause a problem from their point of view. If they were making decisions based on how many emails they get from the public then that would be rather worrying.
Email councillors, that's what they are there for.
Email councillors, that's what they are there for.
No. This looks to be related to the Network Rail works to repair the platform at Brixton Station.
The Brixton Playground idea is exactly that - an idea and nothing more. The BID have put it out there to initiate a conversation at a time when they can see a route to a quick win. And in getting debate going alone, it seems to be working.
I'm personally suspicious of the motives of the individuals behind it, and am worried that it will gain currency, but that doesn't mean I'm going to dignify it by critiquing thinking that hasn't started or detail that hasn't been developed. The people behind this haven't the first clue what they're doing. They can't even be bothered to use spellcheck.
It will either die on the vine or it will enter a process through which it will be developed to a level where it merits scrutiny and requires formal consultation with all the usual stakeholders and statutory bodies.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
But two councillors, including one for Coldharbour, are on the BID board.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
The problem is that, because of BID's privileged connections with the council, their ideas can gain currency behind closed doors and once they are presented for opinion it will be a typical Lambeth exercise of "managing residents and objections" rather than a consult.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Under the pandemic this does not need formal consultation. As with the Railton scheme the Council could choose to do this. Only needs to consult emergency services and business who might be affected. Apart from that usual formal consultation is suspended.
The BID doc says this would be temporary scheme for three months. Then consultation about scheme being permanent. Which is in line with what Councils are allowed to do during Pandemic.
As David Clapson pointed out Brixton BID board have two Cllrs on the Board.
I'm sure this is being discussed between BID and Council now.
It may or may not happen. But residents won't have a formal say at this time.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Looking at Venn Street, and what you described in Soho I guess it will be steamrollered through.
I don't disagree with helping venues during lockdown but in return for that help the venues need to pull their weight. That includes getting on top of the nuisance they attract once and for all - not just promises and empty words. Concrete and measurable improvements. As a pre-condition - not after. And a commitment to reel it back in after social distancing stops - with commercial rates for any venue allowed to trade from the street
If the venues want to spill outside the venues need to "grow up" their offerings. It cannot be the usual pissed up shouty beer and cocktail gardens in the streets. But that is really what they know - because it coins it in for them.
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