Brixton Playground scheme proposes permanent pedestrianisation of central Brixton

[organicpanda]

I know this makes me spectacularly slow on the update, but Brixton is moving quite rapidly towards becoming a stags and hens horror show like Temple Bar in Dublin or Bourbon Street in New Orleans, isn’t it? It took the word “playground” to make the penny drop...

I agree, it's the alcoholic disneyfication of culturally historic areas

 

[teuchter]

That bit of CHL is effectively an arterial route. Impossible to pedestrianise it without building a new railway crossing and/or making a new main road by developing Saltoun Road or Shakespeare Road or Popes Road.

As I've said a couple of times upthread, Gresham Rd is the obvious avoiding route, and the road design is much better suited to traffic. And CHL between Camberwell and Brixton doesn't have to be an arterial route - that's just how it tends to get used at present.

 

[Jimbeau]

I think Brixton BID have been stupid by not being clear over whether they fully endorse this idea or whether it's a pet project by a couple of their influential bar owners - but that doesn't mean that those behind it are only in it for the worst of reasons, no matter how fishy it smells.

I can quite well imagine a handful of people of limited imagination and experience getting some poor junior at Squires to bash out three collages in an afternoon, and this being released into the wild without any real understanding of how it might be received. There is definitely more nuance in the statements on their website than there is in the document itself (albeit still with little evidence of real knowledge). They might even be aware of how much they've fucked this up and be debating about whether they can turn it around or if they just need to double down to avoid losing too much face. Their real idiot move was to pull at the lever of Covid relaxations - because now everything looks like commercial greed, even if all they really want to do is establish a precedent for a streetscape less weighted towards traffic.

The great shame for me is that there are loads of models for making shared spaces in town centres work well for all kinds of users. The Dutch and the Danes have been doing it for 50 years - through a proper co-design process and a continual refinement of approach and implementation. Bell Street Park in Seattle shows what communities can do when they pull together - getting something that ends up better for business and residents without being a pedestrian precinct.

Now this conversation has started, I hope it gets channelled into a proper consultation, led by an entity without obvious conflicts of interest. I fear I may be waiting awhile....

 

[David Clapson]

I live 20 yards from the bar zone of CHL. I'm all for pedestrianisation if it doesn't mean more piss, noise, puke, takeaways thrown on the street and driving under the influence on Rushcroft Road. That's what the bars mean these days. I want less of it, not more. I want full time policing, as they have in Soho. The last time I saw anyone being searched was at least 5 years ago. Last time I saw a car being stopped was also about 5 years ago. The driver refused to open his window or get out of the car. The police wanted to smash the window but there was quite a crowd, so they admitted defeat. C4 News and the Guardian are full of stories about black drivers being pulled over. I reckon the police are told not to do it if there's an audience. So drivers can do whatever they like in the middle of Brixton. That's why there's an average of more than one pedestrian being run over per month on the 30 yard stretch of Electric Lane between Market House and Rushcroft Rd.

 

[krtek a houby]

I know this makes me spectacularly slow on the update, but Brixton is moving quite rapidly towards becoming a stags and hens horror show like Temple Bar in Dublin or Bourbon Street in New Orleans, isn’t it? It took the word “playground” to make the penny drop...

Initially, the area was supposed to be bulldozed and turned into a bus depot. So, although the redevelopment of Temple Bar eventually became a tourist magnet, it's a lot better than the alternative. Don't know if it's as bad as the 90s, when there was a temporary ban by several bars and hostelries on the British stags, mind...

 

[Gramsci]

I think Brixton BID have been stupid by not being clear over whether they fully endorse this idea or whether it's a pet project by a couple of their influential bar owners - but that doesn't mean that those behind it are only in it for the worst of reasons, no matter how fishy it smells.

I can quite well imagine a handful of people of limited imagination and experience getting some poor junior at Squires to bash out three collages in an afternoon, and this being released into the wild without any real understanding of how it might be received. There is definitely more nuance in the statements on their website than there is in the document itself (albeit still with little evidence of real knowledge). They might even be aware of how much they've fucked this up and be debating about whether they can turn it around or if they just need to double down to avoid losing too much face. Their real idiot move was to pull at the lever of Covid relaxations - because now everything looks like commercial greed, even if all they really want to do is establish a precedent for a streetscape less weighted towards traffic.

The great shame for me is that there are loads of models for making shared spaces in town centres work well for all kinds of users. The Dutch and the Danes have been doing it for 50 years - through a proper co-design process and a continual refinement of approach and implementation. Bell Street Park in Seattle shows what communities can do when they pull together - getting something that ends up better for business and residents without being a pedestrian precinct.

Now this conversation has started, I hope it gets channelled into a proper consultation, led by an entity without obvious conflicts of interest. I fear I may be waiting awhile....

Brixton BID do endorse the idea. Its on the Brixton BID website:

Brixton Playground - Brixton Bid

Reopening Brixton means reimagining the public realm for businesses, residences, customers and visitors alike. Brixton Playground would see the pedestrianisation…

www.brixtonbid.co.uk

 

[Jimbeau]

Brixton BID do endorse the idea. Its on the Brixton BID website:

Brixton Playground - Brixton Bid

Reopening Brixton means reimagining the public realm for businesses, residences, customers and visitors alike. Brixton Playground would see the pedestrianisation…

www.brixtonbid.co.uk

I'm not so sure. It only proves that someone with access to the web CMS has put up a statement, that in its content says nothing at all about the voting behaviour of the either the Board or the broader membership.

 

[editor]

I'm not so sure. It only proves that someone with access to the web CMS has put up a statement, that in its content says nothing at all about the voting behaviour of the either the Board or the broader membership.

It certainly comes over as fully backed Brixton BID scheme. It uses the phrase "OUR vision" to describe the playground scheme, has been given prominence as the lead story on the front page of their website for two weeks, and has been subsequently backed by their own chair on Twitter, so I can't think of any credible reason why anyone could conclude that it's not their official policy.

 

[snowy_again]

I like how they’ve got a Vauxhall business owner endorsing it

 

[Jimbeau]

It certainly comes over as fully backed Brixton BID scheme. It uses the phrase "OUR vision" to describe the playground scheme, has been given prominence as the lead story on the front page of their website for two weeks, and has been subsequently backed by their own chair on Twitter, so I can't think of any credible reason why anyone could conclude that it's not their official policy.

Because organisations don't always observe due process, because the Chair's businesses look set to gain personally and because nowhere is it said whether initiatives proposed either by the Board or under the guise of the Board have broad backing from the membership base.

 

[editor]

Because organisations don't always observe due process, because the Chair's businesses look set to gain personally and because nowhere is it said whether initiatives proposed either by the Board or under the guise of the Board have broad backing from the membership base.

Maybe, but if it was totally misrepresenting what their members' want, and was seen as a rogue proposal from a loose cannon, I would have thought we would have heard something a fortnight down the line, either officially or unofficially. I've certainly heard nothing of the sort and I've been talking to a few people close to the BID.

Also bear in mind that Buzz ran a piece from another BID member the week before that was fully behind such a scheme, although he posted in a personal capacity.

 

[Jimbeau]

Maybe, but if it was totally misrepresenting what their members' want, and was seen as a rogue proposal from a loose cannon, I would have thought we would have heard something a fortnight down the line, either officially or unofficially. I've certainly heard nothing of the sort and I've been talking to a few people close to the BID.

Also bear in mind that Buzz ran a piece from another BID member the week before that was fully behind such a scheme, although he posted in a personal capacity.

But proving a negative is very hard. To quote the old saying - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Perhaps the Chair is in it for herself and is using her position to advance the interest of her own businesses. Perhaps the Board has collectively commissioned the exercise but not vetted the output before it was posted. Perhaps it has done both and feels it is the best they can come up without external advice. Perhaps they have canvassed all 667 of their members and can honestly say they have majority backing, despite the fact that BID membership is non-optional and is essentially a tax on the bulk of non-residential buildings in the square kilometre between Blenheim Gardens and Stockwell Park Walk. Perhaps lots of members didn't know about it, or saw it as irrelevant to their circumstances, or didn't have a feedback mechanism.

One, more or all of the above might be true to a greater or lesser degree. But the it's-definitely-this-cos-no-one-told-me-and-my-mates-otherwise argument doesn't work for me. For now I'm staying sceptical due to the optics, but optimistic that it's rubbish due to ignorance and incompetence rather than by design.

 

[editor]

But proving a negative is very hard. To quote the old saying - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I've really no idea why you're continue to pursue this strange line of argument unless you've personally spoken to several members of Brixton BID who have said they disagree with the proposals (but have strangely elected to remain quiet). To all intents and purposes it clearly is official Brixton BID policy.

It's been the lead article on the Brixton BID website for over two weeks. Glossy mocks ups were prepared in advance by BID members Squire & Partners. The chair has publicly defended the proposals. An active member of the BID even wrote an article backing the same principles the week before. It's had SHITLOADS of publicity for weeks.

There's no shortage of outlets for dissatisfied Brixton BID members to voice their concerns and feedback, but nothing has been said.

Mind you, I'd agree that it's highly likely that not every single member of the BID agrees or even cares about these proposals - much like a lot of their policies, I expect - but to keep on suggesting that the proposals aren't being presented in their name strikes me as a bit odd.

 

[Jimbeau]

I've really no idea why you're continue to pursue this strange line of argument unless you've personally spoken to several members of Brixton BID who have said they disagree with the proposals (but have strangely elected to remain quiet). To all intents and purposes it clearly is official Brixton BID policy.

It's been the lead article on the Brixton BID website for over two weeks. Glossy mocks ups were prepared in advance by BID members Squire & Partners. The chair has publicly defended the proposals. An active member of the BID even wrote an article backing the same principles the week before. It's had SHITLOADS of publicity for weeks.

There's no shortage of outlets for dissatisfied Brixton BID members to voice their concerns and feedback, but nothing has been said.

Mind you, I'd agree that it's highly likely that not every single member of the BID agrees or even cares about these proposals - much like a lot of their policies, I expect - but to keep on suggesting that the proposals aren't being presented in their name strikes me as a bit odd.

If there has been a press release and a PR campaign then it has passed me by. I was under the impression that beyond going up on Brixton BID's own page and social feeds it hasn't been publicised anywhere. Some local news sites and boards have picked up on it, but I've seen no more than that. My only bellwether is a few chance conversations with my neighbours (a couple of whom pay into the BID), and none of them knew anything of it - but my sample is way too small to extrapolate a conclusion. Some of those folk don't know what Urban75 is either, despite being very long-term Brixton residents, but hey ho. It can be easy to forget how imperfectly the online world maps to the real world. I have to remind myself that it took me a decade here to find these boards, and almost another to think about posting...

I've no point to prove or agenda to advance. But in the interests of full disclosure - I trained in Public Design and have spent 25 years working on cultural and social projects built around delivering benefits for the public and common good. Sadly I've seen some clunkers that have started on the wrong foot for a whole range of reasons, such as those I set out above, and this one just feels off to me.

 

[Gramsci]

If there has been a press release and a PR campaign then it has passed me by. I was under the impression that beyond going up on Brixton BID's own page and social feeds it hasn't been publicised anywhere. Some local news sites and boards have picked up on it, but I've seen no more than that. My only bellwether is a few chance conversations with my neighbours (a couple of whom pay into the BID), and none of them knew anything of it - but my sample is way too small to extrapolate a conclusion. Some of those folk don't know what Urban75 is either, despite being very long-term Brixton residents, but hey ho. It can be easy to forget how imperfectly the online world maps to the real world. I have to remind myself that it took me a decade here to find these boards, and almost another to think about posting...

I've no point to prove or agenda to advance. But in the interests of full disclosure - I trained in Public Design and have spent 25 years working on cultural and social projects built around delivering benefits for the public and common good. Sadly I've seen some clunkers that have started on the wrong foot for a whole range of reasons, such as those I set out above, and this one just feels off to me.

Im really lost with your posts sometimes. Several posters here have raised concerns about Brixton BID- including me- It all seems to pass you by. Ive tried to critique the BID concept and get feeling yo dont follow what Im going on about.

Here is what you have said few posts back:

I think Brixton BID have been stupid by not being clear over whether they fully endorse this idea or whether it's a pet project by a couple of their influential bar owners - but that doesn't mean that those behind it are only in it for the worst of reasons, no matter how fishy it smells.[/QUOTE]

This is sitting on the fence. On the one hand it may be pet project. But lets not be to hasty however much it smells. I really dont get your posts.

 

[Jimbeau]

Im really lost with your posts sometimes. Several posters here have raised concerns about Brixton BID- including me- It all seems to pass you by. Ive tried to critique the BID concept and get feeling yo dont follow what Im going on about.

Here is what you have said few posts back:




This is sitting on the fence. On the one hand it may be pet project. But lets not be to hasty however much it smells. I really dont get your posts.

I’ve offered my observations that the Brixton Playground ‘vision’ is an early, ill-formed, notion that has come out of a structurally odd organisation fronted by some individuals with obvious conflicts of interest.

But that does not prove malign intent. People can still do the wrong thing with good intentions. I’ve suggested a few different reasons why I’m resisting being too quick to judge something with no detail and of no clear genesis.

If some people don’t want to countenance or comprehend that there might be other ways of looking at this than theirs then I’m at a loss.

There’s an interesting and nuanced conversation to be had on this topic, but perhaps here isn’t the best place - too much focus on semantics over substance, and too much interest in scoring points.

 

[Gramsci]

I’ve offered my observations that the Brixton Playground ‘vision’ is an early, ill-formed, notion that has come out of a structurally odd organisation fronted by some individuals with obvious conflicts of interest.

But that does not prove malign intent. People can still do the wrong thing with good intentions. I’ve suggested a few different reasons why I’m resisting being too quick to judge something with no detail and of no clear genesis.

If some people don’t want to countenance or comprehend that there might be other ways of looking at this than theirs then I’m at a loss.

There’s an interesting and nuanced conversation to be had on this topic, but perhaps here isn’t the best place - too much focus on semantics over substance, and too much interest in scoring points.

I dont think my posts here have been about semantics. Nor have I seen point scoring on this thread.

 

[Jimbeau]

I dont think my posts here have been about semantics. Nor have I seen point scoring on this thread.

Fair enough. Quite likely we misunderstand each other equally. That’s the trouble with online discussion.

At heart I feel as though we’re both saying that the vision is crap and the BID is an inherently conflicted entity to front it - wherein lies the danger.

However it came to be this way, it doesn’t matter that much. It’s still a piece of farted-out whimsy that falls apart at the slightest touch.

 

[editor]

Fair enough. Quite likely we misunderstand each other equally. That’s the trouble with online discussion.

At heart I feel as though we’re both saying that the vision is crap and the BID is an inherently conflicted entity to front it - wherein lies the danger.

However it came to be this way, it doesn’t matter that much. It’s still a piece of farted-out whimsy that falls apart at the slightest touch.

On that I'll agree. I think the organisation is very much conflicted, with a top heavy, self-serving power base (hence the declaration that the night economy is the most important thing in Brixton) and a long tail of other businesses who have very little input in its direction, or don't have the time to get involved or have no interest at all, but are still compelled to pay up regardless.

See:

Lambeth Council issues court summons to 141 Brixton businesses for non-payment of Brixton BID

Lambeth Council has issued court summons to 141 local Brixton businesses for non-payment of the Brixton Business Improvement District [BID] levy.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Lambeth Council spends £25,000 on court summons with 27% of local traders yet to pay the Brixton BID

A Freedom of Information request filed by Brixton Buzz shows that 198 local Brixton businesses liable for the Brixton BID tax have yet to pay. This is works out at 27% of all businesses that are re…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[Gramsci]

That bit of CHL is effectively an arterial route. Impossible to pedestrianise it without building a new railway crossing and/or making a new main road by developing Saltoun Road or Shakespeare Road or Popes Road.

Actually its not.

As I found out when reporting a collapsed manhole cover in CHL. Outside where I live.

After several emails CHL comes under Lambeth Council.

Like Loughborough Road its not a main arterial route.

It does not come under TFL. Brixton road does come under TFL.

Its that car drivers/ motorcyclists have decided its a main arterial route. Which is not the same thing.

Agree with teuchter on this.

When it was closed for the crane in market area the sky didnt fall in.

I think a scheme for buses/ cycles / pedestrians/ access for retail shops is something I would support.

 

[Rushy]

Actually its not.

As I found out when reporting a collapsed manhole cover in CHL. Outside where I live.

After several emails CHL comes under Lambeth Council.

Like Loughborough Road its not a main arterial route.

It does not come under TFL. Brixton road does come under TFL.

Its that car drivers/ motorcyclists have decided its a main arterial route. Which is not the same thing.

Agree with teuchter on this.

When it was closed for the crane in market area the sky didnt fall in.

I think a scheme for buses/ cycles / pedestrians/ access for retail shops is something I would support.

There are certainly lots of positives to a scheme like that. I don't think benefits need to be limited to retail but should also be available to cafes and restaurants during the day, early evening. The objection to BIDs proposal is that it is led by the nighttime economy and focused on extending existing nighttime economies into the street. That's the part which should be absolutely resisted. Cafes and restaurants using the street would need to be carefully and comprehensively controlled to avoid beer / party terraces. For instance, small terraces, seating only, limited group sizes (perhaps 8) no outdoor covers starting after 7.30pm, not to be used as smoking / chillout areas. Possibly no alcohol? There should also be concrete plans how to avoid clubs and bars decanting into pedestrianised areas and crowds hanging about at night. Not just vague assurances to monitor etc... It should be used as a firm step towards "growing up" Brixton's leisure industry in a way that benefit local residents - not continuing Brixton's transformation into San Antonio for more stag and hen dos.

 

[Gramsci]

There are certainly lots of positives to a scheme like that. I don't think benefits need to be limited to retail but should also be available to cafes and restaurants during the day, early evening. The objection to BIDs proposal is that it is led by the nighttime economy and focused on extending existing nighttime economies into the street. That's the part which should be absolutely resisted. Cafes and restaurants using the street would need to be carefully and comprehensively controlled to avoid beer / party terraces. For instance, small terraces, seating only, limited group sizes (perhaps 8) no outdoor covers starting after 7.30pm, not to be used as smoking / chillout areas. Possibly no alcohol? There should also be concrete plans how to avoid clubs and bars decanting into pedestrianised areas and crowds hanging about at night. Not just vague assurances to monitor etc... It should be used as a firm step towards "growing up" Brixton's leisure industry in a way that benefit local residents - not continuing Brixton's transformation into San Antonio for more stag and hen dos.

Ive been in Soho a lot recently. On Brewer street the road is narrowed at few points so restaurents can put tables out. So still can go down Brewer street.

Will try to get some photos.

Soho / Covent Garden are not on main bus routes like Brixton.

I do think as Atlantic road is closed by NR works it would be worth an experiment to see how it works.

Keep Atlantic road open for deliveries but give some space to the "genuine" restaurents- Kricket, Thai place, Wahaca

I would exclude the so called Chip shop as they just would take the piss..Its a bar the chip section is bollox.

In Soho that is what is being done.

Given the Covid situation the restaurent sector is on its knees. I know people who work in it and they are on furlong. If some way for them to return to work is not sorted out they are out of a job.

Trouble is Brixton BID is not the best organisation to do this through.

 

[editor]

I missed their Twitter statements (they obviously didn't send it to Brixton Buzz at the time).