Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[ViolentPanda]

The argument that supporting Brexit and opposing LTNs go together has been regularly posted up on this thread.

The head of Pimlico plumbers has been called a "little England Tory" here even though he was against Brexit.

I also look at FB page of One Lambeth and I have also attended one of their demos. I didn't see a lot of racist/ Brexit types at the demo. Nor were any of the speeches at the demo mentioning Brexit. I see a lot of angry car drivers on the One Lambeth FB posting up videos of how they can't drive around. They are angry that does not make them Brexit voters.

TBF, Mullins was/is against Brexit, because it cuts off a crucial source of exploitable labour for him.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Understandable. But hardly unpredictable.

Agreed. Apparently Covid has put a crimp in the shipping of parts from points east, too.

 

[snowy_again]

The argument that supporting Brexit and opposing LTNs go together has been regularly posted up on this thread.

The head of Pimlico plumbers has been called a "little England Tory" here even though he was against Brexit.

I also look at FB page of One Lambeth and I have also attended one of their demos. I didn't see a lot of racist/ Brexit types at the demo. Nor were any of the speeches at the demo mentioning Brexit. I see a lot of angry car drivers on the One Lambeth FB posting up videos of how they can't drive around. They are angry that does not make them Brexit voters.

Apart from the ex UKIP bloke and now ‘heritage party’ member being the key speaker at the Hackney and Lambeth demos, you’re right, nothing at all.

 

[Not a Vet]

57 Labour, 5 Greens, 1 Tory. 63 cllrs in total.

My bad, not checking properly

 

[snowy_again]

So you were involved in that decision to spend public money fixing that which was not broken?
(and create a hazard to pedestrians at the same time)
View attachment 232926
View attachment 232925

The original isn’t Equalities Act compliant. Wheels for Wellbeing were involved in campaigning to replace that style of barrier. the ones fitted were (I think) an experiment to be tweaked.

 

[teuchter]

Much as I hate to admit it, Briggs makes some good points. Proper consultation, followed by progressive roll-out, would have been more efficient.

That was what (in theory) was happening before Covid struck.
Then the emergency legislation from his own party (rightly, I think) allowed councils to accelerate things.
If things had carried on as before, I think we'd still have traffic clogged roads right now, but none of the benefits that the LTNs can bring for those who want to get about on foot/bike.
What he's seen is an opportunity to kill off the LTNs by blaming them for traffic chaos that is partly, or possibly mainly, caused by other things.
From what he's written you can see his wider agenda.

 

[CH1]

The original isn’t Equalities Act compliant. Wheels for Wellbeing were involved in campaigning to replace that style of barrier. the ones fitted were (I think) an experiment to be tweaked.

I'm sure if Wheels for Wellbeing say they're no good they would get put on the list for planters, like everywhere else.
I bet if you asked local residents though many would be bemused like I am.

What you had at Somerlyton Passage (as you can see in my first picture) were widely spaced barriers that you could actually have cycled through - at 2 mph, or of course dismounted. Now we have two planters which don't block any two wheel vehicle/device. The planters seem to be instaled by an outsourcing firm, who will in due course no doubt put in plants on the Somerleyton Road side to match the Mayall Road side (unless they have dropped Somerleyton off their list for gardening).

I appreciate moaning about change is very boring - but some people on here might remember Brixton Challenge and their planter craze on Brixton Road - in the mid 1990s. Looked wonderful until there was no proper cleaning/gardening buget and the planters became rubbish tips for drinks cans, sandwich packs etc. - and had to be done away with.

I would like to know who the contractor is who is installing and servicing these planters. Who let the contract? And did they have any interests to declare? And who will pay for long term maintenance?

 

[snowy_again]

I'm sure if Wheels for Wellbeing say they're no good they would get put on the list for planters, like everywhere else.
I bet if you asked local residents though many would be bemused like I am.

What you had at Somerlyton Passage (as you can see in my first picture) were widely spaced barriers that you could actually have cycled through - at 2 mph, or of course dismounted. Now we have two planters which don't block any two wheel vehicle/device. The planters seem to be instaled by an outsourcing firm, who will in due course no doubt put in plants on the Somerleyton Road side to match the Mayall Road side (unless they have dropped Somerleyton off their list for gardening).

I appreciate moaning about change is very boring - but some people on here might remember Brixton Challenge and their planter craze on Brixton Road - in the mid 1990s. Looked wonderful until there was no proper cleaning/gardening buget and the planters became rubbish tips for drinks cans, sandwich packs etc. - and had to be done away with.

I would like to know who the contractor is who is installing and servicing these planters. Who let the contract? And did they have any interests to declare? And who will pay for long term maintenance?

They don’t allow people not riding standard cycles through.

Planters made by Father Nature believes in access to nature for all a small local social enterprise

 

[teuchter]

Have to say I agree about freestanding planters - they never get maintained in the long term, and if they are made of timber they inevitably disintegrate and collapse.

They're fine as a solution for temporary/experimental barriers though.

 

[CH1]

They don’t allow people not riding standard cycles through.

Planters made by Father Nature believes in access to nature for all a small local social enterprise

I'll pass that information on to my friend in Holmewood Gardens - who thinks his planter in the middle of Cotherstone Road is wonderful. By the look of their website they might be able to do wonders with his back garden too!

 

[editor]

On a kind of related note:

 

[ViolentPanda]

That was what (in theory) was happening before Covid struck.
Then the emergency legislation from his own party (rightly, I think) allowed councils to accelerate things.
If things had carried on as before, I think we'd still have traffic clogged roads right now, but none of the benefits that the LTNs can bring for those who want to get about on foot/bike.
What he's seen is an opportunity to kill off the LTNs by blaming them for traffic chaos that is partly, or possibly mainly, caused by other things.
From what he's written you can see his wider agenda.

To be fair, his ward has more than its fair share of rammed main roads, and rat runs, so I think some of it is fear of displacement causing more problems in the short term.

The emergency legislation did lead to an unseemly rush by local authorities to develop (if that word can be used) projects that would secure funding, seemingly without much more planning going into it, than (by Lambeth, at least) "what can we do to meet our Climate Emergency carbon neutrality obligations? Ooh, I know...".

 

[Gramsci]

Apart from the ex UKIP bloke and now ‘heritage party’ member being the key speaker at the Hackney and Lambeth demos, you’re right, nothing at all.

Well I missed that. I heard a local shopkeeper and a person who works for he NHS. When I arrived at demo high percentage were Black people.

Its a right wing Tory government who have put the money forward for these schemes. As you have pointed out previously lot of the encouragement and funding for altering roads in favour pedestrianss and cyclists during pandemic is courtesy of this government.

That is the government that has Priti Patel in it who is going to "reform" what happens to ayslum seekers.

Trying to pin opposition to LTNs to the right does not make senses to me when it is a hard right Brexit supporting administration under Boris who are funding this.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't think the Brexit stuff is really relevant and I agree it's unhelpful to bring that up.

However, the tendency for tories to be anti LTN does fit with the tory ideology of individualist freedom, in my opinion. It's not irrelevant to the discussion.

It's not a coincidence that the tory borough of Wandsworth cancelled their schemes, that Lambeth's sole tory councillor is opposing the Lambeth LTNs, and that tory-supporting, boris-backing Pimlico Plumbers man is opposing the LTNs.

I don't think this means that being opposed to the LTNs makes you a tory. I recognise that there are reasons people might be against them, that don't stem from an individualist ideology.

Id agree with the individualist freedom.

The sole Tory Cllrs motion to Full Council you posted up previously is littered with stuff about the "war on cars". Typical individualist Tory stuff. More annoying is way Cllr Briggs attempts to blame all woes of London on Labour Councils. That Lambeth is misusing the money from Government for this. They aren't. Shapps made it quite clear to Councils to get on with this quickly.

Cllr Briggs is from what Ive seen a grass roots Tory. Bit of a Thatcherite.

He reallly ought to question why Boris government went down this path. What guidance they gave to Councils on how to use the money and how they are administrating the hand out of grants to Council. Rather than knee jerk bash a Labour Council. Its his party in power who started the ball running on these schemes. If he does not like it then he should hold his government to account.

He does say Shapps has written to Lambeth Council but I cant find letter online.

Found the motion on Crystal Palace news.

Blocked-off roads Lambeth: Council motion calls for end of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods trial immediately, with all road blockages removed – and for the “council to go back to the drawing board and consult residents in an unbiased way that does not presume an outcome.”

CPN says next Full Council is 14th October. That should be fun to watch

Im still glad someone has managed to get this all brought up at Full Council. Im wondering what the Greens will say.

 

[cuppa tee]

Priti Patel in it who is going to "reform" what happens to ayslum seekers....it is a hard right Brexit supporting administration under Boris who are funding this.

.....they’re gonna find it a lot easier to push stuff thru while everyone is arguing over planters.

 

[Rushy]

Is the gate on Railton Road south of the junction with Kellett Road one way? There did not appear to be any signs stopping traffic heading from Herne Hill direction.

Yep. Seems so. Was it always that way?

 

[snowy_again]

Well I missed that. I heard a local shopkeeper and a person who works for he NHS. When I arrived at demo high percentage were Black people.

Its a right wing Tory government who have put the money forward for these schemes. As you have pointed out previously lot of the encouragement and funding for altering roads in favour pedestrianss and cyclists during pandemic is courtesy of this government.

That is the government that has Priti Patel in it who is going to "reform" what happens to ayslum seekers.

Trying to pin opposition to LTNs to the right does not make senses to me when it is a hard right Brexit supporting administration under Boris who are funding this.

And of course you know hat tackling car traffic (via LTNs) is in both the Labour and Conservative party manifestos; a little bit more aggressively in the Labour one but the Tory one is still quite developed and based on cross party working.

Tory one obviously includes lots of new road building. Greens full on LTN implementation.

Lib Dems (if we remember them) is a bit more dramatic. UKIP was all ‘war on motorists’

 

[Ryan2468]

Yep. Seems so. Was it always that way?

When it was first put in, I don't think so. But it's definitely the case now.

 

[Ms T]

Yep. Seems so. Was it always that way?

Apparently the local shops lobbied for it to be one way.

 

[Gramsci]

And of course you know hat tackling car traffic (via LTNs) is in both the Labour and Conservative party manifestos; a little bit more aggressively in the Labour one but the Tory one is still quite developed and based on cross party working.

Tory one obviously includes lots of new road building. Greens full on LTN implementation.

Lib Dems (if we remember them) is a bit more dramatic. UKIP was all ‘war on motorists’

No I didnt know that.

Nor does it seem that Cllr Briggs knows its in Tory manifesto. Given his motion to Full Council is all about the Labour party in Londons war on the motorist someone in Tory HQ ought to have a word with him about this cross party working and the manifesto. As its passed Cllr Tim Briggs by.

 

[Gramsci]

Much as I hate to admit it, Briggs makes some good points. Proper consultation, followed by progressive roll-out, would have been more efficient.

I agree he did make some good points. I wiahed he had not used it to take a potshot at Labour Councils.

Another question he could have asked is to question how they are doing this.

As I dug up previously not all these schemes are actually about the pandemic.

Oval LTN is being done with an Experimental Traffic Order. Which does not mention the pandemic. Its about circumventing consultation prior to implementation. Its also about a permanent scheme not a temporary one for duration of the pandemic.

I think there is a argument that the Council is not just bringing in pavement widening etc for more social distancing its using pandemic to fastrack its pet projects.

I wish Cllr Briggs motion had focussed on what actually this Labour Council is up to. And making them clearly answer in Full Council meeting.

There are plenty of questions to ask about the implementation of LTNs in way that this Council has done.

 

[Gramsci]

One of your ward cllrs is the toxic individual who said, back before the 2014 local elections, that Coldharbour had "too many damned council tenants". This was said in the context of it meaning he had to do lots of ward surgery work.

His latest one is to accuse people who take time to be involved in community that they arent "representative". This always happens when people ask questions/ criticise any action by the Council or its officers.

 

[Gramsci]

So you were involved in that decision to spend public money fixing that which was not broken?
(and create a hazard to pedestrians at the same time)
View attachment 232926
View attachment 232925

I thought the idea of the metal fence was to stop mopeds. Also to stop cyclists hammering it down the passage when pedestrians are using it.

I use it. As cyclist I didnt find the fencing a problem.

Way it is now is not necessarily safer for pedestrians.

 

[teuchter]

Live congestion map just now on Waze

Wandsworth (roughly the left hand side of this map) has abandoned its LTNs.

Lambeth (roughly the right hand side) hasn't.

Just posting this for the benefit of those who believe the main cause of congestion at the moment is the LTNs.

 

[Rushy]

As I dug up previously not all these schemes are actually about the pandemic.

Oval LTN is being done with an Experimental Traffic Order. Which does not mention the pandemic. Its about circumventing consultation prior to implementation. Its also about a permanent scheme not a temporary one for duration of the pandemic.

I think there is a argument that the Council is not just bringing in pavement widening etc for more social distancing its using pandemic to fastrack its pet projects.

Is Oval exceptional in that?

 

[thebackrow]

They don’t allow people not riding standard cycles through.

I'm sure if Wheels for Wellbeing say they're no good they would get put on the list for planters, like everywhere else.
I bet if you asked local residents though many would be bemused like I am.

What you had at Somerlyton Passage (as you can see in my first picture) were widely spaced barriers that you could actually have cycled through - at 2 mph, or of course dismounted. Now we have two planters which don't block any two wheel vehicle/device. The planters seem to be instaled by an outsourcing firm, who will in due course no doubt put in plants on the Somerleyton Road side to match the Mayall Road side (unless they have dropped Somerleyton off their list for gardening).

So the old barriers didn't enable anyone on an adapted cycle through - so excluded disabled people cycling, didn't allow cargo bikes, or bike trailers, bikes with panniers or bakfiets boxbike type things that can carry children. Anything that will allow all of those types of cycle through will also enable motorcyclists. So do we exclude all the legal use because of a small amount of illegal use? Correspondingly should we ban all motor traffic in Lambeth because some people break the speed limit or park on the pavement?

 

[CH1]

So the old barriers didn't enable anyone on an adapted cycle through - so excluded disabled people cycling, didn't allow cargo bikes, or bike trailers, bikes with panniers or bakfiets boxbike type things that can carry children. Anything that will allow all of those types of cycle through will also enable motorcyclists. So do we exclude all the legal use because of a small amount of illegal use? Correspondingly should we ban all motor traffic in Lambeth because some people break the speed limit or park on the pavement?

Not quite sure what you are getting at there.
The old barriers had been there for about 30 years, and now you are positioning for a fight about the rights of people with child carrying panniers? Were there any petitions from Morlands Estate residents about this?
BTW how can motorcycle or scooter use of Somerleyton Passage be illegal? Is there a by-law?
I understand cycling on the pavement is illegal - but I can't remember ANY case of enforcement of this by-law ever publicised in Brixton in the last 41 years.
There have been press warnings for pedestrians to be careful during mobile phone snatching crazes though. Just as you had to wear a condom when having sex - you had to beware of pavement cyclists when on your mobile phone.

 

[thebackrow]

The old barriers had been there for about 30 years, and now you are positioning for a fight about the rights of people with child carrying panniers? Were there any petitions from Morlands Estate residents about this?
BTW how can motorcycle or scooter use of Somerleyton Passage be illegal? Is there a by-law?

It's a useful route for people cycling but the old barriers excluded many from doing so. I've heard it raised as something that should have been done at numerous Brixton town Centre, Someleyton Road and cycling meetings/consultations over the years

Riding a motor vehicle on the pavement is clearly both illegal and dangerous. Somerleyton passage is clearly not a road but a pavement.

Riding a cycle on the pavement is generally prohibited, except in the very many areas where pavement has been designated as 'shared use' and cycles are officially allowed.
Even if its' not officially shared use, the danger from people cycling to pedestrians is of a different order to that from motor vehicles so it's correctly not a Police priority and in fact the long standing Government guidance to Police is that they should not enforce unless its' being done irresponsibly (and that people can legitimately cycle on the pavement if they feel unsafe on the road)

 

[editor]

This 'road rage' incident apparently has something to so with the Ferndale LTN

 

[thebackrow]

This 'road rage' incident apparently has something to so with the Ferndale LTN

There was two-way traffic on that section of Ferndale Road before the LTN. I've seen lots of road rage incidents on narrow residential streets in Lambeth before the recently implemented LTNs.

The common factor seems to be too much traffic on residential streets and violent individuals behind the wheel of a car.

Also, too much parking - one answer might be to remove some parking spaces and create regular passing places. the other obvious one would be to stop Ferndale Road being used as a rat run. The other LTNs haven't left a rat run through the middle of them so don't understand why this one has as it's obviously going to be an issue.