Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Going to have to disagree with this.
The demo was about LTNs. It was not about if people should wear masks or not. Nor was it about opposing pavement widening.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
Going to have to disagree with this.
The demo was about LTNs. It was not about if people should wear masks or not. Nor was it about opposing pavement widening.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So now the tack is to try to link anti LTN protests to the kind of people who go on anti mask demos.
Anything to make out these people are from the lunatic fringe.
I was at the demo today. To go and see what it was like and the kind of people who turned up.
Ive shown these people aren't racist car nuts who are EDL supporters. They are I saw ordinary local people. Whose views might differ from some posting here.
Anything to make out these people are from the lunatic fringe.
I was at the demo today. To go and see what it was like and the kind of people who turned up.
Ive shown these people aren't racist car nuts who are EDL supporters. They are I saw ordinary local people. Whose views might differ from some posting here.
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sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I gave those as examples of stuff we weren’t consulted over.
wurlycurly
diss member
This is a preposterous analogy and really doesn't help. There is no sign of the One movement having either the grassroots support or the inclination to take direct action. It's fantasy, comparing chalk and cheese. Where are the tens of thousands of people on the streets? Where is the overaching sense of injustice? The million-strong petitions? I'd wager a pro-LTN march would be very well attended. The planters and road-warning signs were removed in Tooting today. Large queues of idling cars are already filling the newly-reopened streets. Covid is back with a bang.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
It'll be interesting to see if the traffic disappears, ambulances no longer get stuck in traffic and businesses report an upsurge in business now the Wandsworth LTNs have been removed.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yup.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
There was a lot less traffic on the A24 (between Tooting Bec & Broadway) during the protest already today (they started removing planters in the morning)... When it started at 14:00 the traffic was quite dense, but already less than it had been and it slowly thinned out throughout the afternoon - I think people were realising they were gone and using the old routes. Previously it had been at an almost standstill every day and evenings too.
If people want to think the very diverse mix of people of all ages who showed up are EDL/far right/covid deniers/blah blah, they are in denial, and, of course, they weren't there. I was, and I know what I saw.
Oh, just found video for the march in Islington - didn't know that was going on.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
This kind of anecdata is meaningless. You need to look at real data over a period of time. I suppose that Wandsworth will be sufficiently hopeless in doing any measurements that there will be hardly any useful hard evidence coming out of this experiment, abandoned long before things had been given anywhere near enough time to settle down.
If you want anecdata, it so happened that I drove from Wandsworth to Loughborough Junction this afternoon around 5/6pm. First time driving in London since 2018 I think. Anyway, the B237/B229 (perimeter road to one of the ex-LTNs) was virtually stationary. And so was the B234 and the A3 (both nowhere near the ex-LTNs) until somewhere around Clapham Common. Barely got out of 1st gear the whole time. It wasn't too busy at all along Acre Lane, a bit slow through Brixton town centre and along Coldharbour Lane until you got past the Dogstar.
My anecdata is fairly meaningless too, other than an account of excessive traffic in London (that I contributed to this afternoon, in a Zipcar).
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Was this the protest?
editor
hiraethified
That's the one. There's more pictures on Buzz and loads of comments arguing the toss.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Hardly seems like massive opposition does it?.
editor
hiraethified
I don't know. I wasn't there so can't comment. I fucking hate car culture but I can see why some people are annoyed at the lack of consultation.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
The absence of consultation is one thing, paying the environmental cost for people who already have more privilege than they understand should also weigh heavily.
Looking at the council's own excel data, the owner-occupied residents of Coldharbour ward - most of Railton Rd, most of the roads off it - made 130% on their homes during the 10 years of austerity. Average values went from £350K to £750K. And now they want to make even more, entirely on the back of dumping their pollution on the poorest in the ward.
Looking at the council's own excel data, the owner-occupied residents of Coldharbour ward - most of Railton Rd, most of the roads off it - made 130% on their homes during the 10 years of austerity. Average values went from £350K to £750K. And now they want to make even more, entirely on the back of dumping their pollution on the poorest in the ward.
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Jeanette Moo
Active Member
I went to the protest on Saturday and I understood why. When you meet any of them in person they are more than happy to chat and explain who they are and what they do.
However there have been MANY incidents of people writing letters to their employers after finding who they work for on Facebook or other sites. Pasting their personal information on twitter and other sites. One person who started one of the 'one' sites for their areas was forced to stand down as they kept writing to their employer and they had to put their livelihood first. There have been tradesmen who have received 1 star google reviews for customers they never heard of or things that didn't happen. Appointments made for various businesses where no one turns up (occasional is to be expected but 3/4 a day??). The people doing this have gone ultra-personal and I couldn't believe it when I heard that.
So i'm not surprised people hide. They are not funded by OPEC or anyone, they are literally worried about their livelihoods and seeing these 'parody' twitter accounts I can see the sort of behavior that is occurring. It made me think twice about what I post on Facebook because I also don't need that in my life but at the same time if I stop....doesn't that mean the scare tactics are working?
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good post Dimitri
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
And who pays for the websites etc?
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Probably not self-regarding Etonians being easy with public funds, so unlike the LTNs.
im sure they are paid for by a diverse range of people from many backgrounds who support different political parties
editor
hiraethified
Not sure what the etc is, but you can set up a website for next to nothing/free. The OneOval lot are using Wix which offers some free websites/hosting.
Most of these group's activities are on FB anyway.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
I don't know much about computers but don't they cost <£50 per year? All it takes is time to make content.
A Facebook group is free
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Jeanette. I'm puzzled by this as it doesn't reflect what I've heard. At both of the Brixton protests I was told someone who supported the LTNs being physically assaulted and someones 'despite some unpleasantness which I won't go into' comment on the Brixton Buzz story suggests there was similar this time.
I know this forum is anonymous and has a policy of not revealing identities even if they are obvious, and that's fine.
However, what really puzzles me is why anti-LTN campaigners would need to be anonymous otherwise. None (or at least very few) of the supporters are. There's nothing illegal about objecting traffic schemes and, unless your protest campaign had a conflict of interest with your day job (in which case it should be declared) why would anyone's employer have any concern that someone was objecting to a scheme in their area? If your'e not doing anything unethical or illegal there should be no issue.
But the reality was that some of the anti campaigners have been physically and verbally abusive to people, there have been photos taken and published of peoples homes and their home addresses published online. There have been videos edited to change their meaning and repeatedly posted online by anonymous accounts.
Now that is illegal - that's defamation and harassment.
Posting bad reviews for traders is shitty and that shouldn't happen whether supporting or opposing but only today I've heard one of the Railton supporters has had multiple instances of pizzas sent to their home that they haven't ordered. Given that the supporters are nearly all open about their identities it would be good if you identified who this has happened to as I'd personally like it to stop.
Basically, anyone operating behind an anonymous account because their afraid their employer would have issues with their behaviour needs to have a hard think about how they are behaving.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
What is this supposed to mean?
I hope you are not trying to make out that Jeanette Moo is some kind of russian bot.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
From what I saw yesterday at the demo it's a grass roots movement.
CH1 was making a analogy between the way both are organised.
As more than once here the allegation has been made that the anti LTN groups are funded by shadowy right wing groups who are racist.
It seems to be beyond some posters understanding that ordinary people can organise quickly.
Social media has made this much easier.
It however does mean that oppositon can be short lived. No long term movement will come out of it
It can also mean the argument goes on in internet. With people not turning up for demos.
Which has its plus and minus sides.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
How about you organise a pro LTN march? If that is what you think.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
I dont know of anyone being assaulted. I was this at this one portest.
I'm just conveying what I heard about abuse, peoples livelihoods being targeted, people work being contacted. Noone said they hid their identity to go on the offence - it was all about supporting while being on the defense - not having someone target you. It's not about behavior - a letter can be sent making all sorts of allegations and then you have to defend yourself - yeah you may survive but that promotion you were maybe angling for suddenly doesn't go your way.
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