Gramsci
Well-Known Member
When you say the "Oval Campaigners were doing exactly that" who do you mean exactly? Its quite a generalisation.
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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
When you say the "Oval Campaigners were doing exactly that" who do you mean exactly? Its quite a generalisation.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Wandsworth said planters would all be removed by Tuesday
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
No one knew who was going to water them anyway. Everyone water metered. LTN support only goes so far 
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Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Let me ask again as you seem to have missed it on the past page: what's your name?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
On the if you have nothing to hide you should not care if someone informs your employer of your out of work time political activities. If they are legal then one should be open and not concerned about employer knowing.
That might all be well if one works in some public service job for a Labour Council or in voluntary sector.
Working in the private sector its somewhat different.
I certainly have never gone to work and told my management I was at an anti Tory demo on the weekend. As I hate the Tories.
Not a great idea.
That might all be well if one works in some public service job for a Labour Council or in voluntary sector.
Working in the private sector its somewhat different.
I certainly have never gone to work and told my management I was at an anti Tory demo on the weekend. As I hate the Tories.
Not a great idea.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
I somehow suspect that your employers and the people you work with would have no trouble at all guessing your political views.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
You are an unpleasant poster.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
The clue was casual bullying; the judgements, the name shaming, the belittling. And in one case starting a post with what he thought was/thinks is the quoted posters real name.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
You are not going to change your mind no matter what evidence is given. Even when someone you know personally, who is in one of the groups tells you her experience from the inside. LTNs have divided communities good and proper. Shame. Believe what you want.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
I don't understand why you'd interpret that as unpleasant - I thought you might find that funny. perhaps I should have added an emoji. I reckon I'd be able to guess the political views of most of my workmates over the years. You hold very strong opinions and, at least on here, don't hold back from sharing them.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Your previous posts and interaction with Jeanette Moo show to me you don't understand that some of us don't want our employers know what we are up to out of hours. Not that ive done anything "illegal".
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The main division has not been caused by the LTNs - it's been brought into focus by them. The division is between those who think things need to change, and those who don't want things to change and it's been around for at least 3 or 4 decades now.
There's probably quite a few folk who have barely thought about this before because they've not previously been asked to make changes to how they approach their transport decisions. Maybe it appears to them that these LTNs have appeared from nowhere and created division - but there are other people who have been very aware of this division for many years. Anyone who's tried to push through the smallest changes - anyone who's worked on trying to improve cycle routes, anyone campaigning for pedestrian safety, anyone who's tried to cycle to work for the first time and had someone shout at them or deliberately scare them with a close pass, even anyone who's tried to close their street for just one day to have a street party - they'll have come up against heavy resistance and in many cases aggression. They have been aware of this division.
Of course it's not entirely as simple as that, and there's room for negotiation about exactly what changes happen but fundamentally, if you are pushing for them, you are up against a portion of the community who don't really think there should be any restriction placed on their freedom to drive.
The groups who oppose these LTNs will always claim that they are not against change in principle, and there will be some people in those groups who do proactively want to explore alternatives, but these groups, if they get their way, pretty much always disappear into the ether shortly afterwards, as I've said before, and I'll wait for "one Wandsworth" to prove me wrong.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
We all want 'change'. It's just some don't want you to finacially and environmentally prosper at their socio-environmental cost.
Until now there has been a social compact - that we together pay the price of improving the UKs contribution to the climate emergency. Boris Johnson and friends decided on a different wheeze - to throw a little more cash at the folks who already had a very good austerity.
Until now there has been a social compact - that we together pay the price of improving the UKs contribution to the climate emergency. Boris Johnson and friends decided on a different wheeze - to throw a little more cash at the folks who already had a very good austerity.
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newbie
undisambiguated
The current division is caused by authoritarians who insist others have to bow to their will, because they know best. Their chosen strategy is to force people out of their cars by increasing frustration. It's unsurprising that those who feel they're being targetted should resist.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
There have always been those against change. Those who object when someone wants to cut down a hedge or even extend their house. I wouldn't say this group falls into that category from what i have seen.....but then I don't really know how to spot either category shrug
What I see in the Facebook group there is a group of very normal people from all walks of life who have been negatively impacted by these schemes. Could be they cant do their trade anymore, their bus journey has doubled, they can't drive on their own road, can't visit their patients, the kids run now takes 60 minutes and not 15. It's not about freedom to drive its the change in their life. Whatever their reason they are slowly finding each other - joining through word of mouth or forums or flyers. They are asking how to make a difference, who should they be writing to. How can they help? Some can't give time but ask if there is a gofundmepage. Some can't give money but they will knock on doors and visit businesses. There's no sponsorship. Just a load of people with time and some who are willing to throw cash into a pot to buy a PA system and other hings.
Blame it on an age old division of some kind but on Saturday I saw a group of mixed race, mixed background, mixed profession, mixed ability, mixed ages all coming together. Most are not hardened protesters. Some had before, many had not and if we do get our way I hope people do disappear. Get back to life.
One person speaking on saturday said to the crowd at the end of his speech - 'how do you feel? does it feel good to be out here?' Everyone nodded, it did. It was a good vibe, everyone felt they were doing something, it was positive to be there. I'd protest again after that day - not just for this topic but for other things.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I don’t have proof of whoever is behind it or if anyone is behind it at all, I just found it suspicious how all these One... groups suddenly started up with the aim of taking down the LTNs completely.
Cars are polluting and we need to be working out ways of not designing our towns around them and LTNs are a part of that.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
LTNs aren’t some weird new experiment either, this is one that exists in Tooting already:
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I think you misunderstand - I'm saying, specifically, there are people who believe it's crucial we change the way we deal with transport in urban areas, and there are people who do not want to change the way we deal with transport in urban areas. These changes will have negative effects for some, yes, of course, although usually not as bad as portrayed, but keeping things as they are has negative effects for loads of other people, and it's been having those negative effects for years, and it's time to put a stop to it.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
For those interested, here is the full LTN report for Wandsworth
https://t.co/NixLu1xxnY?amp=1
and here, what triggered its review and eventual removal
Someone posted yet another video of cyclists going on the pavement/jumping red lights on the group - and once again a few of us are telling them to stop posting finger pointing bullshit. The group isn't "mono thought", and having cyclists in there helped educate, and minimise, divisive, hateful finger pointing and keep it objective. The admins were also strict on this too.
The point of the group was to unite against LTNs, not to be dickheads about other road users. There were people hating on 4x4 drivers too, of course. Lots of virtue signalling from all directions. Instead of trying to understand other people's motivations and find solutions, some people resorted to directing their anger at other road users. Fortunately there were enough people in there who kept saying that's not ok and that they need to direct their energy towards the council. Common sense really.
https://t.co/NixLu1xxnY?amp=1
and here, what triggered its review and eventual removal
Someone posted yet another video of cyclists going on the pavement/jumping red lights on the group - and once again a few of us are telling them to stop posting finger pointing bullshit. The group isn't "mono thought", and having cyclists in there helped educate, and minimise, divisive, hateful finger pointing and keep it objective. The admins were also strict on this too.
The point of the group was to unite against LTNs, not to be dickheads about other road users. There were people hating on 4x4 drivers too, of course. Lots of virtue signalling from all directions. Instead of trying to understand other people's motivations and find solutions, some people resorted to directing their anger at other road users. Fortunately there were enough people in there who kept saying that's not ok and that they need to direct their energy towards the council. Common sense really.
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sparkybird
ask the bird...
Road congestion levels in outer London higher than before lockdown
Exclusive: congestion climbed above 2019 levels in August as people went back to using cars after lockdown
It'll be interesting to see the effect that the ULEZ has when it's extended to the south circular next year.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
It’s not the final report, that would have come six months or more later, some of the planters were only in there for days, it’s not enough time for any change to bed in.
Re the objections from the blue light services. I wonder if wands protecting cyclists on already busy roads such as through Tooting were preventing vehicles from getting out of the way as emergency vehicles tried to come through. However we will never really know because as other posters have said, it needed more time to see the good, bad and ugly.
Just cycled back from the school run and observed a car coming through albeit slowly the Shakespeare Road gate. I told them there was a camera there but the driver said, no that sign means only cars and bikes can come through. I know it’s part of the Highway Code to be able to understand road signs but again I’m wondering if that needs to be enforced with complimentary signage or education.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
From what I've seen on SM, there's a lot of fear mongering about the impact the LTNs will have on an individual. And it's just not true that people can't do their trade, drive on their own road or visit their parents. They can do all these things, but it might take longer or be less convenient for them - and there's the rub. I see a lot of 'well I'm inconvenienced by 10 minutes, so I'm not doing it' so tough luck to the school children who have to walk along the polluted street to school, or the old man who can't use his front garden as the pollution is so bad.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
Big discussion on my local FB group about this - I actually thought people were joking when they asked what the sign meant and they thought it was pretty funny that they didn't! Comments along the lines of well I took my test ages ago, how can I be expected to remember!!
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I don't think any cyclist has been on that blue paint before, it's a car park normally.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Every single time I've walked past that gate I've seen several cars go through.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It's not as black and white as being for LTNs or not.
In Loughborough junction I know local people had concerns about traffic. The Council didn't consult properly. It didn't listen.
When the Council tried to impose its version of traffic reduction ( supported by LJAG) it meant in end many locals opposed the scheme.
In Loughborough junction I know local people had concerns about traffic. The Council didn't consult properly. It didn't listen.
When the Council tried to impose its version of traffic reduction ( supported by LJAG) it meant in end many locals opposed the scheme.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
From what I've seen on SM, there's a lot of fear mongering about the impact the LTNs will have on an individual. And it's just not true that people can't do their trade, drive on their own road or visit their parents. They can do all these things, but it might take longer or be less convenient for them - and there's the rub. I see a lot of 'well I'm inconvenienced by 10 minutes, so I'm not doing it' so tough luck to the school children who have to walk along the polluted street to school, or the old man who can't use his front garden as the pollution is so bad.
Post 1904 and others by nagapie tells of impact on her child.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
I saw on Twitter just now someone has published LTN related research today http://rachelaldred.org/research/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-evidence/
www.urban75.net
happyshopper
Well-Known Member
I still haven't seen an explanation of how LTNs add 45 minutes each way to Greenwich.Post 1904 and others by nagapie tells of impact on her child.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
I saw on Twitter just now someone has published LTN related research today http://rachelaldred.org/research/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-evidence/
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