Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Gramsci]

I'm pretty sure that the takings at the Hamilton are down but as you say, these schemes take time to bed down. Lots of very accurate data of all different types will be available in, say, six months' time. I'm also equally sure that a huge number of cyclists, and walkers, are now using Railton Road. The Hamilton is certain to attract trade from these people, especially if there's somewhere safe to tether their steeds. Amed is panicking a bit because his was The Busiest Shop In The World during the early stages of the pandemic, thanks to his super-diligent and hugely appreciated stock-replenishing efforts (toilet rolls during the panic buying, tins of food, in fact pretty much anything). I strongly suspect his trade will exceed pre-LTN levels when the scheme is fully bedded in, simply because more feet will be passing his shop.

And if it doesn't what do you think should happen? Your assuming it will all be ok in the end,

From reading this shopkeeper was a key worker during the worst of the pandemic.

I think if it is proven that small business in a LTN lose out then it should be compensated by the Council.

Another view would be that the environmental and social benefits of LTNs outweigh potential harm to some small business. Its tough luck.

Doing something for the planet means in that case potentially some will lose out.

If that is the case the Council should say that.

I very much doubt that the Council monitering of this temporary LTN will include in depth analysis of its effect on local small shopkeepers.

I see the shopkeeper is going to email the MP. Good move its pointless emailing Lambeth Local Labour Cllrs on this.

 

[Gramsci]

So next thing on list of what the Council should be doing is analysis of effect on small shopkeepers in the area of an LTN.

On a side point. When the ice rink/ market car park argument was going on with the Council in central Brixton Council were still going to let Tescos have a car park.

A disadvantage for small shopkeepers is that they bear the brunt of green policies on transport. Id like to see a Council like Lambeth stand up to a large supermarket company and tell them they are going to have parking taken away from them. Its not going to happen.

I use Nine Elms Sainsburys sometimes. Massive car park. This is redevelopment of the old Sainsburys. If changes to transport are to be brought in their must be a fair level playing field.

 

[wurlycurly]

And if it doesn't what do you think should happen? Your assuming it will all be ok in the end,

From reading this shopkeeper was a key worker during the worst of the pandemic.

I think if it is proven that small business in a LTN lose out then it should be compensated by the Council.

Another view would be that the environmental and social benefits of LTNs outweigh potential harm to some small business. Its tough luck.

Doing something for the planet means in that case potentially some will lose out.

If that is the case the Council should say that.

I very much doubt that the Council monitering of this temporary LTN will include in depth analysis of its effect on local small shopkeepers.

I see the shopkeeper is going to email the MP. Good move its pointless emailing Lambeth Local Labour Cllrs on this.

Amed has explained the concern about his takings to the council and repeatedly asked them to install bike-racks outside the shop. They keep saying they'll sort it but haven't done so. It has been an ongoing saga since the Railton Road LTN was implemented and he's justifiably pissed off. It's is a prime example of Lambeth not thinking things through properly. They want to encourage cycling but can't even suss out that some extra bike-racks outside shops may also be a good idea. If his takings continue to take a hit after the scheme has been up for a few months, the council should of course compensate him. I live across from the Hamilton and Railton Road is like the Tour de France on occasion now, particularly on Saturdays and Sundays. That's prime passing trade if there's somewhere for the riders to park their bikes.

 

[toblerone3]

One case in Brixton still wrankles.

Reminded of it by one of the cycling campaigners who brought it up recently.

The loss of Brixton Market car park on what is now the Pop site. This was due to the Streatham Council/ Tescos redevelopment of the leisre centre/ ice rink.

Tescos told Lambeth that to finish the scheme the ice rink had to have temporary home.

The home was Brixton Market traders losing the car park.

I supported the market traders on this. The Cllrs were pushing the Green argument.

What annoyed me was the the Council were going to allow Tescos a car park in Streatham but the market traders were going to get theirs taken away.

If Councils are going to have a fair level playing field big companies like Tesco need to be told no parking allowed.

Im all for FAIR transition to Green economy. Its not what Im seeing at local level.

So the working class customers of Tescos are being favoured over the middle class customers of the market traders. Or is this not about customers at all?

 

[sparkybird]

I despair for the future of humans. An LTN is nothing compared to the changes we'll need to make to avoid being wiped out by climate change. We're fucked

 

[sparkybird]

So the working class customers of Tescos are being favoured over the middle class customers of the market traders. Or is this not about customers at all?

I don't think the majority of customers of the market traders are middle class??

 

[Gramsci]

So the working class customers of Tescos are being favoured over the middle class customers of the market traders. Or is this not about customers at all?

I diidnt say that. Dont read into my posts things Im not saying.

 

[alex_]

So the working class customers of Tescos are being favoured over the middle class customers of the market traders. Or is this not about customers at all?

more like the lawyered up Tax dodgers at Tesco get whatever we want, while little shop keepers get fucked

 

[Winot]

Had a pootle around Railton Road and Shakespeare Road this morning on my bike. Sunday 11am is no time to monitor road busyness in Brixton, but for what it’s worth there were more cyclists on Railton Road than I would have expected. Easy way to access Herne Hill market. There were a few cyclists shopping at Hamiltons.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned up thread, but I had forgotten that Evelyn Grace school is on Shakespeare Road. It will be interesting to see the effect of the LTN when school reopens. Hopefully more students cycling/walking to school.

 

[Loose meat]

I know those streets - but last time I walked down them, they were not social housing estates but rather roads with a mix of housing all types and businesses. However, I could be wrong of course, so do you fancy meeting up for a stroll so you can show me? Coffee/tea/beverage of your choice is on me

How can I trust you and your car-owning zealot friends to not throw me in the boot of a diesel-guzzling monster, and dispose of me in the bins behind the Hero of Switzerland ...

 

[Loose meat]

What's been created is a kind of enclave of car dependancy, which perhaps makes it less surprising that much of the objection to the LN comes from those living on this street. If you live in something that's been designed to make you use a car, and then one of your two routes out is blocked to cars, then that's going to feel different than it would if you live somewhere that's designed so that you can easily walk to a shop, or to a bus stop. What's being asked of Shakespeare Rd residents is actually different to what's being asked of those in the Railton Rd area, because the "pedestrian" alternatives are not there in quite the same way.

That's not the fault of the residents, it's the fault of decisions made in an era when it was considered ok to pander to the demand for car ownership at the expense of those without.

Well done for thinking it through. If you were there at the weekend you might not have seen/heard/experienced the - now - incessant, re-routed, skip lorry movements.

 

[Loose meat]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned up thread, but I had forgotten that Evelyn Grace school is on Shakespeare Road. It will be interesting to see the effect of the LTN when school reopens. Hopefully more students cycling/walking to school.

More importantly, it's on Loughborough Park as well.

 

[sparkybird]

How can I trust you and your car-owning zealot friends to not throw me in the boot of a diesel-guzzling monster, and dispose of me in the bins behind the Hero of Switzerland ...

Well that's just a chance you'll have to take isn't it. Although you do realise that I am broadly in favour of LTN's and reducing car use don't you, so I will be coming on foot....

 

[wurlycurly]

Well done for thinking it through. If you were there at the weekend you might not have seen/heard/experienced the - now - incessant, re-routed, skip lorry movements.

Are they literally incessant or does the skip depot close overnight? Also, what's the traffic like between, say, 9pm and 7am compared with how it was before the introduction of the LTN?

 

[wurlycurly]

One Railton were out flyering in Railton Road today, opposing the LTN. Car windscreeens, not letterboxes. Leaflet didn't say much, essentially that they wanted the scheme to be for everyone and urging people to sign their petition.

 

[editor]

'Lambath' protest on Thurs

Protest against Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in Lambeth announced for Thurs 27th Aug 2020

Lambeth’s introduction of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) continues to be a divisive issue, and some residents have organised a march and protest against the recent road closures.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[teuchter]

Are they literally incessant or does the skip depot close overnight? Also, what's the traffic like between, say, 9pm and 7am compared with how it was before the introduction of the LTN?

If anyone would like to post up the times of day at which they are incessant I'd be interested to go along and have a look for myself.

 

[wurlycurly]

'Lambath' protest on Thurs

Protest against Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in Lambeth announced for Thurs 27th Aug 2020

Lambeth’s introduction of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) continues to be a divisive issue, and some residents have organised a march and protest against the recent road closures.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

It's nearly 800 yards from Concannon Street to the Town Hall. Think I'll take my car.

 

[Not a Vet]

'Lambath' protest on Thurs

Protest against Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in Lambeth announced for Thurs 27th Aug 2020

Lambeth’s introduction of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) continues to be a divisive issue, and some residents have organised a march and protest against the recent road closures.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

I can see the placards:
Pollution for everyone not just the few

Ironically, the march is likely to cause more traffic problems

 

[editor]

I can see the placards:
Pollution for everyone not just the few

Ironically, the march is likely to cause more traffic problems

I don't imagine the police are imagining big numbers but it will be interesting to see how many people come out for this.

 

[alex_]

I don't imagine the police are imagining big numbers but it will be interesting to see how many people come out for this.

And how many black cabs

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Can someone summarise these points ahead of Thursday's demo. This thread is way too long already.
I get the bit about zero consultations.

No to social injustice (how?)
No to zero consultations (ok ).
No to dividing communities (how?)

I wish we had this on Elm Park Road, i've really noticed the rise in traffic after lockdown.

 

[sleaterkinney]

The social injustice bit seems to mostly crop up in the Railton rd ltn, because part of the area that benefits is well off and the streets which would see an initial rise in traffic are not well off.

Dividing communities is because some people can't drive where they like.

 

[thebackrow]

I get the bit about zero consultations.

Apart from the fact that there have been a number of consultations that got us to this point, and the schemes are being done as trials, with consultation (and changes) ongoing.

 

[thebackrow]

The social injustice bit seems to mostly crop up in the Railton rd ltn, because part of the area that benefits is well off and the streets which would see an initial rise in traffic are not well off.
Dividing communities is because some people can't drive where they like.

The streets that have seen the big reductions in traffic - Railton Road itself and the northern section of Shakespeare Road are actually the ones with the higher concentrations of social housing. The one area within Railton that has lower than than average socially rented housing - on the Poets roads - were already pretty quiet. So the reverse of the first claim seems to be true.And the source of the social injustice claims (and all the talk of 'segregation') seem to come from people (on Shakespeare Road) who in theory benefit so that doesn't seem to stack up either.

It does look like this is just a few people who can't drive where they like.

The roads that had high volumes of through traffic are in pink and red on this image from the commonplace site. Other than the southern half of Shakespeare, which still had much lower traffic volumes than the northern section, the Poets streets are notable for NOT being highlighted.

 

[Loose meat]

You completely floor me every time with these hand-drawn pictures, and talk like they're policy documents! Bless those sharp elbows

 

[editor]

Apart from the fact that there have been a number of consultations that got us to this point, and the schemes are being done as trials, with consultation (and changes) ongoing.

I'd wager that the vast majority of people had no idea these consultations were taking place - at least that's the most repeated comment I've heard on social media and on the street.

 

[thebackrow]

You completely floor me every time with these hand-drawn pictures, and talk like they're policy documents! Bless those sharp elbows

Andy, it's from the councils consultation/evidence page. I'm guessing from your protests that you have difficulty interpreting anything visual? Is there some way I can make it easier for you to comprehend?

 

[Loose meat]

Andy, it's from the councils consultation/evidence page. I'm guessing from your protests that you have difficulty interpreting anything visual? Is there some way I can make it easier for you to comprehend?

I thought you'd overcome your predilection for including the Moorlands Estate.

Can you link us up?

 

[Loose meat]

The social injustice bit seems to mostly crop up in the Railton rd ltn, because part of the area that benefits is well off and the streets which would see an initial rise in traffic are not well off.

I think that's accurate. All LTNs seem to have their own characteristics. Railton area LTN is a special case imo becasue satnav, etc encourages drivers to divert via roads and estates of predominately social housing. People in those places - especially children with still developing lungs -paying the price for the people at Railton to benefit.