Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
I agree with you!
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
I agree with you!
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
It's not even subtle is it? Having to walk instead of drive under the bridge is hardly apartheid. Segregation is a pretty loaded word
editor
hiraethified
It's pissed me off enough to consider doing a piece about it. I do understand why people make feel they have a legitimate grievance against LTNs but bringing up BLM is way off the fucking mark.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
That's the Council problem. Not residents.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I've got no axe to grind here. I live on CHL and don't own a car.
I do think that local residents should have say in how streets are used.
In Railton LTN it is looking like cutting out through traffic is supported. Shakespeare road filters aren't
Railton road filtering is improving quality of life ( as a guess at the moment) for people living in area .
I don't have a problem with that
LTN/ road filtering means cars can still go through an area but only on what are designated main roads. Like mine.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why they didn't put the Shakespeare road filter down the other end.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I've read SOS and One Oval Brixton Buzz articles.
Also looked at Cllr Holland tweet.
So Fire Brigade are statutory consultees. They expressed concerns and design of Oval LTN was altered. The Fire Brigade signed off design as acceptable.
Might have helped if the Council had put this in the public domain some time ago.
Some of the things the One group ask are not unreasonable. Like proper monitoring of road use now LTNs are in place.
The Council have bought this on themselves by skipping full consultation.
After Cllr Holland tweet several people point out that she could give out more information directly and quickly to general public. Rather than it going to secondary group like SOS to release to public.
( Council are poor at giving out info. Why so many use FOIs. )
The perception is certain groups seem to know a lot before the average resident does.
Also looked at Cllr Holland tweet.
So Fire Brigade are statutory consultees. They expressed concerns and design of Oval LTN was altered. The Fire Brigade signed off design as acceptable.
Might have helped if the Council had put this in the public domain some time ago.
Some of the things the One group ask are not unreasonable. Like proper monitoring of road use now LTNs are in place.
The Council have bought this on themselves by skipping full consultation.
After Cllr Holland tweet several people point out that she could give out more information directly and quickly to general public. Rather than it going to secondary group like SOS to release to public.
( Council are poor at giving out info. Why so many use FOIs. )
The perception is certain groups seem to know a lot before the average resident does.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Then you'd simply have people on Shakespeare Rd unhappy that they can't drive in the LJ direction.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Why not just ask them to explain. It's not how I'd go about describing the divisions the LTN creates but they presumably have a rationale. I'd like to know if there is something there to learn.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
It you stand there for any period you'll see the big change is the route into the Norris skip tipping facility - each journey is obv in and out, perhaps 20-30 skips or so an hour at peak. Usually a queue when I cycle past.
If you follow them, the route they mostly now come down Milkwood Road from HH end, turn left, left again and travel along Shakeapeare Road North to beside the bridge.
Previously they would duck and dive from the other side of the bridge/Railton Rd.
Putting the planters there, shifts the whole skip journey operation to the other end of Shakespeare Road and Milkwood. One or two of the houses at that end have home-made signs in the window about it. Far longer journey for the skips.
Does this work ...?
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
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sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Maybe there shouldn't be a skip operation on a residential street in the first place.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
You're too deep for us. Plus, you're welcome.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
I believe the filter is at the southern end because of the low bridge - the skip site has large lorries visiting which can't go under. I'm pretty sure I've heard most of the skip traffic was from the north before (ultimately this stuff is going out of London so general traffic direction is outward). Lastly have also heard the site already has planning permission for residential and has been sold so it's only a matter of time before it's relocated. Obviously finding somewhere else to put it isn't that easy.....
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Nope. Making stuff up again. They're not double decker buses. Click on the link above, scroll around, you can see a man on a bike under the bridge and a sign saying 14' clearance. In fact here it is:
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Maybe go and have a squiggle with your MS Paint graphics again.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
If you're going to call someone out for making stuff up, at least check your facts.
Skip trucks can get under the Bridge. The flatbed "transit" 'waste clearance' trucks can get under the bridge.
The large, articulated, lorries that come to the Norris site to collect the sorted waste and take it away can't. I don't think theres many of them - a few each day? But they're the reason the filter needs to be where it is
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Repeat: ** NOT ** a low bridge. Repeat: ** NOT ** a low bridge.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
This is plain stupid. The reason a handful have to go the other way is ... wait for it ... the bridge is too low for that handful.
The planters don't make the bridge higher or lower
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
No they don't. But the filter means all traffic goes one way. and it cant all go under the bridge.This is plain stupid. The reason a handful have to go the other way is ... wait for it ... the bridge is too low for that handful.
The planters don't make the bridge higher or lower
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Beep. Beep. SHARP ELBOWS REVERSING! SHARP ELBOWS REVERSING!
Beep. Beep. MS Paint evidence INCOMING. MS Paint evidence INCOMING.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Im not either.
Fact is Council designed the scheme quickly and implemented it. Not surprising that some of aspects of it aren't liked.
Last time I looked at the Commonplace a lot of the anti comments were around the Shakespeare road filter.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
So, if it wasn't for the strategically planted planters, the very few over height lorries would have to go the way they already go anyway? I'm not sure this is helping you.
The whole point is the dozens and dozens and dozens of SKIPP-SIZED vehicles that used to go the much shorter route across Railton but now go the further, more disruptive route along Milkwood and LJ and Shakespeare Road North.
That is not something that would have escaped the angelic and magical Claire Holland.
The whole point is the dozens and dozens and dozens of SKIPP-SIZED vehicles that used to go the much shorter route across Railton but now go the further, more disruptive route along Milkwood and LJ and Shakespeare Road North.
That is not something that would have escaped the angelic and magical Claire Holland.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
From the About Us | One Railton
The above seems reasonable to me. The Council should, now its got the LTNs in place, start to do this.
Maybe it is. And some time needs to be given for Council to start giving out detailed info to residents.
Would help if Council made clesr how they are going to evaluate the LTNs
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
tbh, not interested so much in August data. Mid-Sep onwards imo.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
The point is that if you do filter the road, that’s where it needs to go.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Too soon even, it needs a good six months to bed in. Look at what happened in LJ.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Id agree.
My concern is whether Lambeth actually do it properly. I have my doubts. So its something Cllr Holland should address.
toblerone3
Grrrrr
Frequently asked Questions.
Access for residents and businesses
All residents and businesses where there are closures/filters or School Streets will still be able to drive to their property, but this may be via a different route.
No road is being closed entirely - they are being closed to non-local through-traffic at specific points on each road.
Crime and antisocial behaviour
Hackney already has one of the highest numbers of these types of closure (ca. 120) in London. There has been no demonstrable effect on crime and antisocial behaviour in other low traffic neighbourhoods.
However, the Council is committed to liaising with Community Safety Partnerships in Hackney to consider 'crime prevention through environmental design' in developing its transport proposals. The type of plants and trees to be used in public realm schemes will take into consideration the potential for creating hiding places and reducing natural surveillance.
Emergency vehicle access
Emergency vehicles will be able to drive through the closures.
We have an excellent working relationship with the emergency services and whenever we do anything to change the road network we always consult with them so that we do not do anything which makes their work more difficult.
Having your say
All measures are being introduced using an experimental traffic order for a maximum period of 18 months, which means residents and businesses can see how the closures work in practice before having their say.
The views of residents and businesses, including any suggested changes to how schemes operate, will be taken into account before any decision on whether or not to make the measures permanent. This process is in line with specific guidance from Transport for London, and the Department for Transport, whose guidance states that: 'authorities should monitor and evaluate any temporary measures they install, with a view to making them permanent, and embedding a long-term shift to active travel as we move from restart to recovery’.
Residents can have their say up until six months after measures have been implemented. Letters will be sent to all residents in the local area prior to implementation, outlining how they can have their say.
‘Restricting traffic is bad for business’
This is not true, there are numerous studies highlighting the economic benefits of investing walking and cycling. A number of these have been collated by TfL recently http://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-cycling-economic-benefits-summary-pack.pdf
Traffic displacement onto other roads
This is a common fear when residential road closures are installed which assumes that trips which used to pass along a road simply divert to other roads when that road is closed and problems are shifted to those other roads. This ignores the fact that roads are designed for different purposes. Roads in residential areas are not designed to carry non-local through traffic which is better accommodated on main roads.
The measures are being designed to try to ensure that displacement does not occur. While there will be a natural settling-in period for each scheme of a few weeks, where there may be some traffic disruption, the scheme is being implemented under an experimental traffic order, which will allow residents to feed back on the measures and allow us to make amendments to address any issues should the measures be made permanent. We will monitor traffic flows in and around each area during implementation.
Closing roads to motor traffic is unfair on elderly and disabled people less able to walk or cycle
The design of low traffic neighbourhoods maintains access by car or delivery vehicles to all properties that currently have access. The reduction in traffic in residential areas is of benefit to those with mobility issues in moving around their local areas in safety and with cleaner air. The timed closures around schools created by School Streets will exempt residents travelling to and from their own houses. Where cycle lanes are introduced, access to crossing places and bus stops will be protected.
Why are you implementing these closures quicker than you usually would?
Given lockdown restrictions remain subject to change, and people are continuing to avoid public transport, it is important that we support the 70% of Hackney households that do not own a car to walk and cycle instead. There is also a risk that, as public transport use remains low, car use will return to or exceed pre-lockdown levels, with the associated effect this will have on road safety and air quality.
We need to act quickly to make roads safer for walking and cycling, and to help residents maintain social distancing. This is in line with Department for Transport guidance, which states that: “Measures should be taken as swiftly as possible, and in any event within weeks, given the urgent need to change travel habits before the restart takes full effect.”
Why isn't my road included?
We have focussed measures on areas where we know there are issues, or where we can quickly link up with other schemes, such as TfL cycle routes, which are based on analysis of areas where there is the greatest potential for rapid increases in cycling levels. Please get in touch at streetscene.consultations@hackney.gov.uk if you have any further comments.
Access for residents and businesses
All residents and businesses where there are closures/filters or School Streets will still be able to drive to their property, but this may be via a different route.
No road is being closed entirely - they are being closed to non-local through-traffic at specific points on each road.
Crime and antisocial behaviour
Hackney already has one of the highest numbers of these types of closure (ca. 120) in London. There has been no demonstrable effect on crime and antisocial behaviour in other low traffic neighbourhoods.
However, the Council is committed to liaising with Community Safety Partnerships in Hackney to consider 'crime prevention through environmental design' in developing its transport proposals. The type of plants and trees to be used in public realm schemes will take into consideration the potential for creating hiding places and reducing natural surveillance.
Emergency vehicle access
Emergency vehicles will be able to drive through the closures.
We have an excellent working relationship with the emergency services and whenever we do anything to change the road network we always consult with them so that we do not do anything which makes their work more difficult.
Having your say
All measures are being introduced using an experimental traffic order for a maximum period of 18 months, which means residents and businesses can see how the closures work in practice before having their say.
The views of residents and businesses, including any suggested changes to how schemes operate, will be taken into account before any decision on whether or not to make the measures permanent. This process is in line with specific guidance from Transport for London, and the Department for Transport, whose guidance states that: 'authorities should monitor and evaluate any temporary measures they install, with a view to making them permanent, and embedding a long-term shift to active travel as we move from restart to recovery’.
Residents can have their say up until six months after measures have been implemented. Letters will be sent to all residents in the local area prior to implementation, outlining how they can have their say.
‘Restricting traffic is bad for business’
This is not true, there are numerous studies highlighting the economic benefits of investing walking and cycling. A number of these have been collated by TfL recently http://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-cycling-economic-benefits-summary-pack.pdf
Traffic displacement onto other roads
This is a common fear when residential road closures are installed which assumes that trips which used to pass along a road simply divert to other roads when that road is closed and problems are shifted to those other roads. This ignores the fact that roads are designed for different purposes. Roads in residential areas are not designed to carry non-local through traffic which is better accommodated on main roads.
The measures are being designed to try to ensure that displacement does not occur. While there will be a natural settling-in period for each scheme of a few weeks, where there may be some traffic disruption, the scheme is being implemented under an experimental traffic order, which will allow residents to feed back on the measures and allow us to make amendments to address any issues should the measures be made permanent. We will monitor traffic flows in and around each area during implementation.
Closing roads to motor traffic is unfair on elderly and disabled people less able to walk or cycle
The design of low traffic neighbourhoods maintains access by car or delivery vehicles to all properties that currently have access. The reduction in traffic in residential areas is of benefit to those with mobility issues in moving around their local areas in safety and with cleaner air. The timed closures around schools created by School Streets will exempt residents travelling to and from their own houses. Where cycle lanes are introduced, access to crossing places and bus stops will be protected.
Why are you implementing these closures quicker than you usually would?
Given lockdown restrictions remain subject to change, and people are continuing to avoid public transport, it is important that we support the 70% of Hackney households that do not own a car to walk and cycle instead. There is also a risk that, as public transport use remains low, car use will return to or exceed pre-lockdown levels, with the associated effect this will have on road safety and air quality.
We need to act quickly to make roads safer for walking and cycling, and to help residents maintain social distancing. This is in line with Department for Transport guidance, which states that: “Measures should be taken as swiftly as possible, and in any event within weeks, given the urgent need to change travel habits before the restart takes full effect.”
Why isn't my road included?
We have focussed measures on areas where we know there are issues, or where we can quickly link up with other schemes, such as TfL cycle routes, which are based on analysis of areas where there is the greatest potential for rapid increases in cycling levels. Please get in touch at streetscene.consultations@hackney.gov.uk if you have any further comments.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This is about Hackney.
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