Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[thebackrow]

There's water works again at the junction of Sports Direct. And services connection works on Brixton Hill.

and also roadworks blocking one lane at the south end of Kings Avenue (near the A205). And roadworks at the A205 Clapham Common Southside junction (with a single lane and no left turn southbound) that look like they'll be going on for a couple of months. And there was some problem in Wandsworth on Friday that had traffic backed up on both West Hill and East Hill.

Despite all that disruption to the all the other north-south routes into London I had a clear run through Streatham High Road on both Friday early evening and at lunchtime today.

 

[thebackrow]

The traffic order for the no right turn at the top of kings ave, went in force but was never signed or enforced.

What's this about?

 

[sparkybird]

The traffic order for the no right turn at the top of kings ave, went in force but was never signed or enforced. How would what I suggest be different ?

All I’m suggesting is doing the traffic orders, waiting a couple of months while traffic moves away - then doing signage and actually blocking roads.

As I understand it Lambeth went down the route of not having physical barriers so that all roads can be used by emergency services, accessible taxis, bin lorries and buses.

 

[alex_]

What's this about?

Suspect it was a pre LTN idea to stop people turning right at top of kings ave

 

[Cat Fan]

I think that genuinely the new camera enforced 20mph limit on the S Circular has helped reduce traffic

 

[Smick]

I think that genuinely the new camera enforced 20mph limit on the S Circular has helped reduce traffic

It probably hasn’t reduced it, but has stopped it bunching. If the speed limit went up to 40, we wouldn’t get anywhere more quickly. Just reach the next set of red lights sooner.

If anything, it will allow for more cars. Slower cars lead to shorter stopping distances which means more cars can fit on the same stretch of road.

 

[alex_]

It probably hasn’t reduced it, but has stopped it bunching. If the speed limit went up to 40, we wouldn’t get anywhere more quickly. Just reach the next set of red lights sooner.

If anything, it will allow for more cars. Slower cars lead to shorter stopping distances which means more cars can fit on the same stretch of road.

Will also reduce the number and severity of accidents for the same reason.

Safe car stopping length is 12 meters at 20mph, and 23 meters at 30 mph.

 

[edcraw]

Brixton Hill and the Sth Circular certainly seem a lot calmer now.

 

[Cat Fan]

It probably hasn’t reduced it, but has stopped it bunching. If the speed limit went up to 40, we wouldn’t get anywhere more quickly. Just reach the next set of red lights sooner.

If anything, it will allow for more cars. Slower cars lead to shorter stopping distances which means more cars can fit on the same stretch of road.

Agree. But I think bunching is basically one of the main causes of traffic jams. So overall it could still improve journey times

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I rather enjoy the 20mph speed limit, this and my local LTN have added about 4 minutes to my weekly commute to croydon and it's absolutely fine.
From past experience before the generalisation of the speed limit, even at quiet night time you could get from blackheath to brixton on a bike just as fast as in a car.

 

[Smick]

Will also reduce the number and severity of accidents for the same reason.

Safe car stopping length is 12 meters at 20mph, and 23 meters at 30 mph.

Mid last year I read a paper which discussed serious injuries and fatalities when a car hits a pedestrian and the impact of speed. The difference caused by an additional 1mph can be stark.

 

[snowy_again]

As is the correlation between bonnet height (hello SUVs) and injuries and fatalities.

 

[edcraw]

Looks like the anti-LTN lot weren’t able to get enough signatures for a deputation to tonight’s council meeting…

 

[Bus Stopped]

There seem to be ongoing fairly severe issues on streatham high street in rush hour.

But that’s not why I’m posting. I went to the Palestine demo today and a thug who was a leader from the anti LTN demo (I saw him setting up their speakers), attacked and punched several Palestine protestors. Not only did the the police not arrest him but he was back at the LTN demo as the Palestine demo was packing up.

To be fair most of the anti LTN protestors seemed like normal residents. But there is clearly a nasty right wing element leading the campaign.

 

[sparkybird]

There seem to be ongoing fairly severe issues on streatham high street in rush hour.

But that’s not why I’m posting. I went to the Palestine demo today and a thug who was a leader from the anti LTN demo (I saw him setting up their speakers), attacked and punched several Palestine protestors. Not only did the the police not arrest him but he was back at the LTN demo as the Palestine demo was packing up.

To be fair most of the anti LTN protestors seemed like normal residents. But there is clearly a nasty right wing element leading the campaign.

That's absolutely awful. Why on earth didn't the police take action????

 

[thebackrow]

There seem to be ongoing fairly severe issues on streatham high street in rush hour.

But that’s not why I’m posting. I went to the Palestine demo today and a thug who was a leader from the anti LTN demo (I saw him setting up their speakers), attacked and punched several Palestine protestors. Not only did the the police not arrest him but he was back at the LTN demo as the Palestine demo was packing up.

To be fair most of the anti LTN protestors seemed like normal residents. But there is clearly a nasty right wing element leading the campaign.

Well the crowd and speakers included 'last man standing' former conservative councillor Tim Briggs, former conservative councillor (from Bedford), Anthony Boutall, failed conservative council candidate Ediz Mevlit, and former LibDem councillor Julian Heather.

I count no more than 70 people in this video (which includes the various out-of-borough hangers on and presumably a few journalists (Brixton Blog), so after 4 years of campaigning under various names, in which time Lambeth has implemented 7 LTNs, they're getting less than 10 people from each one to be engaged enough to turn up to the protest they've been promoting for 3 weeks.

 

[teuchter]

Here's a thing about road pricing in London

Road Pricing

A fairer way to use our roads. Add your voice now.

roadpricing.org

 

[Bus Stopped]

That's absolutely awful. Why on earth didn't the police take action????

Me and a witness were arguing with the police saying why don’t you arrest him and they wouldn’t. Disgusting.

 

[Bus Stopped]

In terms of the LTN demo it was small but local demos often are. There are exceptions, the library demos were big.

But just because right wing and alt right arseholes make LTNs their hobby horse and make it part of their anti green agenda, I don’t think local concerns should be written off. It’s definitely got better but there are still clearly issues. My hunch is that if you had a vote now in the LTN and surrounding areas a big majority would vote against.

Now just because a majority vote a certain way doesn’t make it morally right (Trump and Johnson anyone?), but democracy is important.

I dislike the way arrogant and pompous new labour councillors think they always know what’s best. Look at the tens of millions wasted in housing and their horrible attitudes of wanting to foist estate demolitions on communities. They just refused to have votes. And it was bad for the environment and destroyed community bonds. It was great that a lot were stopped but that was mainly because Homes for Lambeth was so incompetent and failed so badly.

I think they should trial LTNs for six months and then have a vote.

 

[BusLanes]

I don't think that you can run a UK style local government where some issues get mandatory trials and plebiscites. Where would it stop?

My preferred solution is to adopt working UK options.

Maybe adopt elections by thirds or halves like so many English councils? Give the voters a second lick whilst not being too disruptive.

Or some form of PR, which would mean STv like Scotland or NI. Then at least Labour wouldn't get 90% of councillors with 50 ish % of the vote.

 

[Bus Stopped]

I don't think that you can run a UK style local government where some issues get mandatory trials and plebiscites. Where would it stop?

My preferred solution is to adopt working UK options.

Maybe adopt elections by thirds or halves like so many English councils? Give the voters a second lick whilst not being too disruptive.

Or some form of PR, which would mean STv like Scotland or NI. Then at least Labour wouldn't get 90% of councillors with 50 ish % of the vote.

I take your point but it’s now a legal requirement that estate regeneration gets a vote. Surely that’s a good thing? If that had always be the case it might have stopped developers fleecing the public purse like in elephant and castle and communities being demolished.

Given LTNs require consultation by law why not have a vote?

 

[alex_]

I take your point but it’s now a legal requirement that estate regeneration gets a vote. Surely that’s a good thing? If that had always be the case it might have stopped developers fleecing the public purse like in elephant and castle and communities being demolished.

Given LTNs require consultation by law why not have a vote?

With estate regeneration, it’s obvious who votes, residents

With LTNs less so - who should vote? the people in the LTN who primarily benefit ? the people outside who don’t - how far outside ?

 

[Bus Stopped]

With estate regeneration, it’s obvious who votes, residents

With LTNs less so - who should vote? the people in the LTN who primarily benefit ? the people outside who don’t - how far outside ?

I would say the same people who the council are legally obliged to consult. If you consult people, also give them a vote.

Even with estate regeneration there are other people to consider rather than just those who live there. The housing waiting list, those affected by the HRA budgets etc

But if you consult in my view there should be a vote attached to it otherwise it’s a bit of a farce.

 

[edcraw]

In terms of the LTN demo it was small but local demos often are. There are exceptions, the library demos were big.

But just because right wing and alt right arseholes make LTNs their hobby horse and make it part of their anti green agenda, I don’t think local concerns should be written off. It’s definitely got better but there are still clearly issues. My hunch is that if you had a vote now in the LTN and surrounding areas a big majority would vote against.

Now just because a majority vote a certain way doesn’t make it morally right (Trump and Johnson anyone?), but democracy is important.

I dislike the way arrogant and pompous new labour councillors think they always know what’s best. Look at the tens of millions wasted in housing and their horrible attitudes of wanting to foist estate demolitions on communities. They just refused to have votes. And it was bad for the environment and destroyed community bonds. It was great that a lot were stopped but that was mainly because Homes for Lambeth was so incompetent and failed so badly.

I think they should trial LTNs for six months and then have a vote.

Yes - if you had a vote it would be against but it would be an incredibly low turnout.

Yes - politicians can be arrogant & pompous but really don’t see this as the case here. It’s simply about no longer letting vehicles dominate all our streets. There’s no corruption, they’re not money making schemes. It’s purely people wanting to make our city nicer & safer.

For me LTNs are a completely conviction politician thing to do - lots of backlash but obviously the right thing to do. It’s one of the biggest positive changes I’ve seen locally. We need more politicians doing the right thing even though it may be difficult.

In a city where most can’t afford to have a car we need to stop prioritising those that can. It really is as simple as that!!

 

[Bus Stopped]

Yes - if you had a vote it would be against but it would be an incredibly low turnout.

Yes - politicians can be arrogant & pompous but really don’t see this as the case here. It’s simply about no longer letting vehicles dominate all our streets. There’s no corruption, they’re not money making schemes. It’s purely people wanting to make our city nicer & safer.

For me LTNs are a completely conviction politician thing to do - lots of backlash but obviously the right thing to do. It’s one of the biggest positive change I’ve seen locally. We need more politicians doing the right thing even though it may be difficult.

In a city where most can’t afford to have a car we need to stop prioritising those that can. It really is as simple as that!!

But those in favour of things always make those arguments.

With housing estates it was don’t you care about homeless people on the waiting list? Don’t you care that it will decimate the HRA budget if we go down the regeneration and not demolition route? It’s well off leaseholders that don’t want this, not tenants etc etc

If you can’t convince the people that live there to be enthused and turn out and vote, then you aren’t going a good enough job.

And what about LTNs that might not work well? That potentially damage public transport? Do you just plough on regardless with no thought of alienating people or even alienating people from the wider concepts of LTNs and greener ways of living?

Aside from the fact that it makes a mockery of consultation you are also in no position to complain in future if someone implements something for the wider good that you don’t agree is for the wider good.

As I’ve said before I think a lot of LTNs have been good. That doesn’t mean every LTN is good.

 

[edcraw]

But those in favour of things always make those arguments.

With housing estates it was don’t you care about homeless people on the waiting list? Don’t you care that it will decimate the HRA budget if we go down the regeneration and not demolition route? It’s well off leaseholders that don’t want this, not tenants etc etc

If you can’t convince the people that live there to be enthused and turn out and vote, then you aren’t going a good enough job.

And what about LTNs that might not work well? That potentially damage public transport? Do you just plough on regardless with no thought of alienating people or even alienating people from the wider concepts of LTNs and greener ways of living?

Aside from the fact that it makes a mockery of consultation you are also in no position to complain in future if someone implements something for the wider good that you don’t agree is for the wider good.

As I’ve said before I think a lot of LTNs have been good. That doesn’t mean every LTN is good.

History is (thank god) full of politicians doing good things without popular support. If there was a referendum on the minimum wage in the 90s it probably would never have happened.

It’s telling that so many at yesterday’s protest were ex-councillors. We don’t and shouldn’t have a referendum on every measure politicians take - democracy is voting on a general direction.

There might be LTNs that don’t work but I don’t believe this is true yet of any of the Lambeth ones & the protest yesterday was very clearly against the principle of LTNs and that’s true of most opposition.

 

[Smick]

I saw footage last night of Green councillor Nicole Griffith discussing high levels of pollution on Streatham High Road. Rezina Chowdhury stood up, like a petulant teenager and called her anti-LTN, as if that is justification for disregarding everything she had said. I’ve heard good things about the mayor on a personal level, but he didn’t seem able to chair impartially or effectively.

Honestly, Lambeth Labour needs to be broken up. It’s a while until the next elections. I’ve voted Green for quite some time now, but hopefully others will join me because we barely have any opposition or accountability in that chamber.

I’m in favour of the aims of LTN, but it seems that many locals are putting that above all other concerns and sycophantically praising our councillors who, from what I can see, are a bunch of inept and self-congratulating pricks.

I wanna see revolution.

 

[Gramsci]

There seem to be ongoing fairly severe issues on streatham high street in rush hour.

But that’s not why I’m posting. I went to the Palestine demo today and a thug who was a leader from the anti LTN demo (I saw him setting up their speakers), attacked and punched several Palestine protestors. Not only did the the police not arrest him but he was back at the LTN demo as the Palestine demo was packing up.

To be fair most of the anti LTN protestors seemed like normal residents. But there is clearly a nasty right wing element leading the campaign.

Is that what happened?

I went to the Palestinian demo.

At least one Zionist turned up and started waving the Israeli flag at front of demo as someone was speaking. A woman. Typical provocation.

Then I saw a lot of pushing and shoving with a man involved. ( the LTN guy?)

The police this time kept out of out. Which was a good thing, They kept to edge of demo and were not filming it or other intrusive behavior Ive seen at National demos.

Also unlike previous demo at Windrush square about Palestine where they Police got stuck in and tried to arrest someone for the placard they had. They had been scrutinising that demo.

So imo letting the protestors sort out the Zionists and not interfering was a step forward.

I have photos but did not put them out as I've been on a lot of the Palestine demos and police are checking social media. And do not want to get people in trouble

I did hear that the LTN lot were not happy that the Palestinian supporters had got the prime spot.

The LTN demo was around the corner.

It seemed civilised enough demo.

On numbers. Well the Palestine demo was not that big. But considering the timing demos are not always that big. Saw a lot of people I knew there. So it was the "usual suspects" Which is not a bad thing.

 

[edcraw]

The juxtaposition between a protest against a genocide and another against being slightly inconvenienced when driving is interesting.

 

[Marbs]

There seem to be ongoing fairly severe issues on streatham high street in rush hour.

But that’s not why I’m posting. I went to the Palestine demo today and a thug who was a leader from the anti LTN demo (I saw him setting up their speakers), attacked and punched several Palestine protestors. Not only did the the police not arrest him but he was back at the LTN demo as the Palestine demo was packing up.

To be fair most of the anti LTN protestors seemed like normal residents. But there is clearly a nasty right wing element leading the campaign.

I was at the demo last night and watched a guy being questioned by police on Acre Lane - it was about 6.15pm. He was asking them to arrest the thugs from the Palestinian demo who had attacked him: the police were trying to calm him down and obviously didn’t want to inflame the situation.
He wasn’t a member of the anti LTN group: it was gathering much further away: could he have been in the small group which was protesting against the Gaza rally?
You’d be surprised how many of the anti-LTN group are Labour supporters but there aren’t any leaders as such. If you think you know who they are, please tell me. I’m sure there are some who vote Conservative, Green, Lib Dem but what unites us all is the high handed way Lambeth Council is introducing LTNs: ignoring the democratic will of residents, lying about how comparisons of air quality are monitored and using unverified stats to support their argument.
If you can describe the guy who attacked members of your demo, I’ll do my best to identify him.