Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[BigTom]

Not about this LTN but an interesting if short article talking about modelling showing how in a city high car usage slows everyone down regardless of their mode of transport, including drivers and how we'd all be able to get to our destinations quicker if fewer people drove. This is one of the arguments behind things like LTNs as specifically mentioned in this article, that by reducing car usage you end up with everyone moving more quickly through the city, including car drivers taking longer routes.

If we all choose the fastest mode of travel in a city, the whole city gets slower – and more congested

Apps are telling us how to get around our cities faster. But if each person acts only in their own interest, society at large gets stuck in traffic.

theconversation.com

 

[thebackrow]

Ian Armstrong - the guy who has been selling the 'Open the roads' estate agents signs, turns out to be a cab driver (of course). At least he doesn't even try to pretend he wants to cut traffic and he does genuinely seem to think that all historic changes to the roads should be opened up to maximise traffic everywhere.

"We should all share the pollution and traffic load" really is "Dirty air for all" with no suggestions as to how people should be enticed out of their cars (except speed humps, which are already in pretty much every road in all of Lambeth's LTNs already)

From Next Door -

 

[sparkybird]

Bet the residents of those roads wouldn't be too happy with his suggestion....

 

[Cat Fan]

Have just completed the Tulse Hill survey. Thought the questions were a bit directed to agreeing with the scheme. I'd favour some tweaks and exemptions for disabled badge holders. Essentially I agree if some compromises could be achieved would be the way forward.

OneLambeth have been delivering "object" leaflets in our area.

I agree that the questions were framed that way. Basically "LTNs are the answer" with no real alternatives considered.

I for one would love more, permanent segregated cycle lanes. The LTNs where I live are not helping me to cycle to work because I work in the city, not a 2 min walk from my door funnily enough. To cycle to work I would have to go on all the main roads which Lambeth's own stats from the consultation show are more polluted than before (and roughly as busy).

 

[Winot]

I agree that the questions were framed that way. Basically "LTNs are the answer" with no real alternatives considered.

I for one would love more, permanent segregated cycle lanes. The LTNs where I live are not helping me to cycle to work because I work in the city, not a 2 min walk from my door funnily enough. To cycle to work I would have to go on all the main roads which Lambeth's own stats from the consultation show are more polluted than before (and roughly as busy).

This might be useful - shows where it’s safe(r) to cycle including LTNs and cycle routes.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=1XlpvN9R-Wg7qZHyezO8y-eVlftr4e0WX&ll=51.516975804561255%2C-0.21828576419061996&z=10

 

[Winot]

I live in Brixton and work in the City and FWIW I cycle through the Ferndale LTN, up the Larkhall Rise Quietway 5, through the Oval LTN, across Baylis Rd/The Cut then up the Blackfriars route. Those two LTNs make a big difference linking up the cycle routes.

 

[Jimbeau]

I agree that the questions were framed that way. Basically "LTNs are the answer" with no real alternatives considered.

I for one would love more, permanent segregated cycle lanes. The LTNs where I live are not helping me to cycle to work because I work in the city, not a 2 min walk from my door funnily enough. To cycle to work I would have to go on all the main roads which Lambeth's own stats from the consultation show are more polluted than before (and roughly as busy).

I think any survey on this issue is going to provoke the usual attitude polarisation and confirmation bias. As a bit of research design it is not awful - it asks a set of questions framed around the intended benefits of the scheme, against which people can respond on a scale from strong agreement to strong disagreement.

Lambeth could have used a different question syntax - eg ‘on a scale where 1 is much worse and 5 is much better, how do you think the LTN has affected safety at night?’ This is clunkier but less loaded, and statistically would yield the same data outcome.

I’m not sure what to make of people asking why the survey doesn’t address LTN alternatives or other anti-traffic initiatives in the borough. That’s not the point of a summative evaluation exercise. The final question is at least an open invitation to provide other suggestions.

Given that the proposal for the permanent implementation includes exemptions for taxis and blue badge holders, it will interesting to see how this affects the anti lobby as it removes one of the main foundations of their argument.

 

[teuchter]

cycle to work I would have to go on all the main roads which Lambeth's own stats from the consultation show are more polluted than before (and roughly as busy).

Which pollution stats are those?

 

[thebackrow]

To cycle to work I would have to go on all the main roads which Lambeth's own stats from the consultation show are more polluted than before (and roughly as busy).

Which pollution stats are those?

I wondered that so went to have a look. The air quality report is linked from the commonplace site. This is a direct link -
Air quality report - Lambeth LTNs

It's definitely not an easy to read doc, but I'm supposing that making definitive assessments of air quality, when it's so dependent on wind, weather etc and you can only measure at some points and have to extrapolate over wider areas is an imprecise science. You've also got to consider different pollutants.
But as far as I can work out from the doc, the only roads that are above legal limits after the LTNs were already above the legal limits before (and any change is minimal)

Notably, there quite a number of 'boundary roads' which are assessed as having improved air quality - including Brixton Hill

 

[thebackrow]

I for one would love more, permanent segregated cycle lanes. The LTNs where I live are not helping me to cycle to work because I work in the city, not a 2 min walk from my door funnily enough. To cycle to work I would have to go on all the main roads

The main roads into town from Brixton have improved in the last 2 years even if not all of it is fully segregated cycle lanes. I've found it's made a lot of difference heading into zone 1 from Brixton.

• the bus lanes on the A3 and A23 (and I think on all the Red Routes) are now 'at all times' and go right up to the junctions (so you don't get arsehole drivers undertaking to get one car ahead when the lights change)
• there are a load of improved or new cycleways with some sort of protection -

2020 New Cycle Infrastructure - Google My Maps

 

[edcraw]

I live in Brixton and work in the City and FWIW I cycle through the Ferndale LTN, up the Larkhall Rise Quietway 5, through the Oval LTN, across Baylis Rd/The Cut then up the Blackfriars route. Those two LTNs make a big difference linking up the cycle routes.

Yep, LTNs have mean that I no longer have to cycle on the main roads into the City, using Tulse Hill, Railton & Walworth ones. It’s much nicer and about the same time as hardly any traffic lights.

Segregated cycle lanes are fantastic but can’t see this happening on most main roads anytime soon.

 

[teuchter]

I wondered that so went to have a look. The air quality report is linked from the commonplace site. This is a direct link -
Air quality report - Lambeth LTNs

It's definitely not an easy to read doc, but I'm supposing that making definitive assessments of air quality, when it's so dependent on wind, weather etc and you can only measure at some points and have to extrapolate over wider areas is an imprecise science. You've also got to consider different pollutants.
But as far as I can work out from the doc, the only roads that are above legal limits after the LTNs were already above the legal limits before (and any change is minimal)

Notably, there quite a number of 'boundary roads' which are assessed as having improved air quality - including Brixton Hill

A bit frustrating it's all just modelled - ie extrapolated from traffic data. It would be nice to have some actual measurements of reality.

 

[thebackrow]

A bit frustrating it's all just modelled - ie extrapolated from traffic data. It would be nice to have some actual measurements of reality.

I think modelling is nearly always used because point measurements are so specific and changeable - the maps here are the same www.londonair.org.uk (and theres a load of detail on where the monitoring stations are and how they work)

 

[edcraw]

OneChiswick have dropped their legal case against a cycle lane as the traffic order has been superseded.

A member of OneChiswick Facebook group also commented on social media that they were unable to continue with the action because the traffic order they had initially challenged had been superseded.

Surely this is the same case in Lambeth, and has been obvious & pointed out on here for a while.

TfL confirms OneChiswick has withdrawn Cycleway 9 legal challenge - Chiswick Calendar News

Transport for London has confirmed that legal proceedings which challenged the decision to install C9, the cycle lane which runs through Chiswick High Rd, have come to an end. Campaign […]

chiswickcalendar.co.uk

 

[Cat Fan]

Which pollution stats are those?

Here you go chaps:

Areas where Beneficial or Adverse impacts are predicted in Streatham Hill LTN include:
• Substantial Beneficial to Slight Beneficial impacts on LTN Roads Hillside Road,
Downton Avenue, Amesbury Avenue and Hailsham Avenue;
• Substantial Beneficial to Slight Beneficial impacts on the boundary road Knollys
Road; and
• Substantial Adverse to Slight Adverse impacts on boundary roads Christchurch Road
(A205), Streatham Hill (A23) and Leigham Court Road.

City Heights Academy is on the S Circular and kids and their parents are walking there every day during peak traffic times. Not sure why there was no monitoring site at the school to be honest, seems like an oversight.

 

[Cat Fan]

Yep, LTNs have mean that I no longer have to cycle on the main roads into the City, using Tulse Hill, Railton & Walworth ones. It’s much nicer and about the same time as hardly any traffic lights.

Segregated cycle lanes are fantastic but can’t see this happening on most main roads anytime soon.

I'm South of the S circular, and it's a nightmare to get past Tulse Hill gyratory/ Brixton Hill area safely.

The route you describe makes some kind of sense, but it's not clearly marked anywhere, and surely it means you still have to cut through main roads to get between the LTNs? And you're cycling up Herne Hill/Denmark Hill?

 

[edcraw]

I'm South of the S circular, and it's a nightmare to get past Tulse Hill gyratory/ Brixton Hill area safely.

The route you describe makes some kind of sense, but it's not clearly marked anywhere, and surely it means you still have to cut through main roads to get between the LTNs? And you're cycling up Herne Hill/Denmark Hill?

It’s this route from Brixton so no hills and nice and quiet. You cut across main roads but that’s okay and better than on them. Don’t know where you are but would steer well clear of the Tulse Hill gyratory until the plans to get rid of it go ahead.

You’re right about the routes no being clearly marked - I don’t think people appreciate how much effort goes into finding good routes. But that the point of LTNs - if you remove through traffic from all minor roads you won’t need to mark routes as they’ll be tons on safe ones!

 

[Crispy]

If you're on the Palace Road side of Streatham Hill, then you can go via Roupell Road, Upper Tulse Hill, Elm Park, Josephine Ave. Railton Road and then on up through the back streets of Myatts Fields.



Then round the back of Kennington Park and back streets again to Elephant where CS7 takes you to Farringdon

 

[sleaterkinney]

I go down Railton and Shakespeare to LJ and up to oval from there and avoid brixton altogether when cycling, central brixton is horrible for that. You could use Rosendale Rd to avoid Tulse Hill.

 

[Jimbeau]

If you're on the Palace Road side of Streatham Hill, then you can go via Roupell Road, Upper Tulse Hill, Elm Park, Josephine Ave. Railton Road and then on up through the back streets of Myatts Fields.

View attachment 299073

Then round the back of Kennington Park and back streets again to Elephant where CS7 takes you to Farringdon

View attachment 299078

I go from off Upper Tulse Hill to near Tower Bridge. From the end of Barnwell I go through the tunnel, along Loughborough Park and then Loughborough Road and Akerman and Wyndham to Burgess Park, then Bermondsey backstreets. It's cycle lanes and traffic calming pretty much all the way.

I live in hope that there will one day be a cycle crossing where Burgess Park meets the junction of Old Kent Road and Albany Road. It's a major bike route that ends abruptly with no interface with the traffic whatsoever.

 

[teuchter]

As an alternative to the northern bit of Crispy 's route - I currently quite like using this one. It's most useful if you are heading more west end than city, but once you get over Vauxhall Bridge, there's a continuous mostly segregated route all the way along the north side of the Thames at least as far as the Tower. The only awkward bit is getting round Trafalgar square which is a pain going north and less so going south.

The bit between Vauxhall and Myatts Field Common is entirely on fully segregated routes, designated quietways or otherwise very quiet roads (helped by the Oval LTN). The only issue is getting across the A3 and the A23. Less confident cyclists could choose to use pedestrian crossings at these points.

 

[edcraw]

Just a reminder for everyone to make sure to fill out the consultations. As the posts here show they really are working and we can’t go back to having traffic everywhere. They may not be perfect but the alternative is ever increasing traffic on all roads.

Have your say

A space to learn about and feed into the Tulse Hill Low Traffic Neighbourhood.

tulsehillltn.commonplace.is

Streatham Hill Low Traffic Neighbourhood

A space to learn about and feed into the Streatham Hill Low Traffic Neighbourhood.

streathamhilllowtrafficneighbourhoodproposals.commonplace.is

 

[Winot]

I live in hope that there will one day be a cycle crossing where Burgess Park meets the junction of Old Kent Road and Albany Road. It's a major bike route that ends abruptly with no interface with the traffic whatsoever.

Did that in the summer a couple of times with the teenage daughters. Fucking hell it’s grim. There’s not even room on the pedestrian crossing island to walk bikes across.

 

[edcraw]

Did that in the summer a couple of times with the teenage daughters. Fucking hell it’s grim. There’s not even room on the pedestrian crossing island to walk bikes across.

Indeed absolutely horrible. It’s a vision how a lot of London could have been bit luckily didn’t happen.

Quietway 1 the other side is glorious though!

 

[Jimbeau]

Indeed absolutely horrible. It’s a vision how a lot of London could have been bit luckily didn’t happen.

Quietway 1 the other side is glorious though!

After much experimentation, I’ve found two safe options. The first is to leave Burgess Park via the last gate onto Albany before the junction. That way you can ride straight across into Humphrey Way with the traffic when the lights are on green.

The other is to ride out the main gate of BP when the pedestrian crossing is green and take a position ahead of all the waiting traffic on OKR in the right-turn lane. When the lights change, you’re then in a safe position (basically the same as at an Advanced Stop Line) to turn right into Dunton Road.

I tend to go for the latter option more often these days. Largely because drivers can hoon it along Albany trying to beat the lights and are not looking out for people on bikes coming out of the side gates of the park.

 

[Cat Fan]

If you're on the Palace Road side of Streatham Hill, then you can go via Roupell Road, Upper Tulse Hill, Elm Park, Josephine Ave. Railton Road and then on up through the back streets of Myatts Fields.

View attachment 299073

Then round the back of Kennington Park and back streets again to Elephant where CS7 takes you to Farringdon

View attachment 299078

Interesting, thanks. Definitely represents a few detours, but I'm keen to try it out one day, time permitting.

My point is mainly that both Tulse Hill gyratory and central Brixton are terrifying to cycle through. If Lambeth is asking me in the LTN consultation what's stopping me cycling to work it's the lack of more segregated cycle lanes (like you see in the Netherlands), LTNs don't really help. But I accept that for some more experienced cyclists used to cutting through back streets they may help on some level.

My risk tolerance for cycling is pretty low, and studies have shown it's not just me it's especially women and families who are put off by the level of risk. I don't know any cycling commuters who haven't had at least a near miss.

 

[sparkybird]

I think there are another level of cyclists that the LTNs do really help though, local ones. For example making a journey from Brixton Streatham, is now much improved and no need to use the scary A23.
I don't have kids, but many parents have told me they have been using the LTNs to practice cycling skills and ride as a family.
It strikes me that experienced cyclists will always cycle whatever. What the LTNs have done is encourage the scaredy cat ones onto bikes

 

[teuchter]

Interesting, thanks. Definitely represents a few detours, but I'm keen to try it out one day, time permitting.

My point is mainly that both Tulse Hill gyratory and central Brixton are terrifying to cycle through. If Lambeth is asking me in the LTN consultation what's stopping me cycling to work it's the lack of more segregated cycle lanes (like you see in the Netherlands), LTNs don't really help. But I accept that for some more experienced cyclists used to cutting through back streets they may help on some level.

My risk tolerance for cycling is pretty low, and studies have shown it's not just me it's especially women and families who are put off by the level of risk. I don't know any cycling commuters who haven't had at least a near miss.

It's worth trying out some routes. If you do find a back street route that works for your journey, you might be pleasantly surprised how safe it feels. If the journey is a regular commute then it's worth spending some time finding a route you are comfortable with. I would agree that London is still not very good for people who want to avoid busy roads, to do ad hoc journeys, because if you are doing an unfamiliar journey it's not all that easy to plan it reliably even using journey planners.

Some of the routes suggested above involve back routes until you get to zone 1 at which point you can switch onto a properly segregated route. There are, now, some good properly segregated routes in central London such as the one along the embankment. Linking to that there's a fully segregated route leading south from Blackfriars bridge, and also (just about linked) is a fully segregated route leading south over Vauxhall bridge that gets you through the horrible Vauxhall gyratory and most of the way to the Oval. I find it useful to visualise these routes as a kind of backbone to link into because once you get onto any of those three routes there's a fairly wide area of central London you can get to by fully segregated route plus a short stretch of non-segregated to get to your final destination.

 

[Jimbeau]

I'd also advocate sticking with it, as safe routes are out there, even for the most risk-adverse of us.

I used to be one of the more blasé cyclists. Consider myself experienced, vigilant, happy to ride assertively when needed, happy on busy main roads, and so on. Two years ago I got thrown over the bonnet of a minicab by a driver who turned into me while looking at his phone. Nasty bruises, broken collarbone, etc. These days I stick to backstreets when I can and have double the number of lights and reflectors that I used to. It's changed my whole perception of risk. But I do want to keep at it, and the Quietways and LTNs have been great for teaching my kids to ride too.

 

[thebackrow]

Interesting, thanks. Definitely represents a few detours, but I'm keen to try it out one day, time permitting.

My point is mainly that both Tulse Hill gyratory and central Brixton are terrifying to cycle through. If Lambeth is asking me in the LTN consultation what's stopping me cycling to work it's the lack of more segregated cycle lanes (like you see in the Netherlands), LTNs don't really help. But I accept that for some more experienced cyclists used to cutting through back streets they may help on some level.

My risk tolerance for cycling is pretty low, and studies have shown it's not just me it's especially women and families who are put off by the level of risk. I don't know any cycling commuters who haven't had at least a near miss.

I don't think many (any?) people think LTNs are the complete solution - they are needed AS WELL as protected cycleways on main roads. You only need a few scary moments to be put off a trip so trips need to feel safe from home to destination (and at all times of day or night - it's no good having a route along a dark canal path, or that relies on riding through a park that's either unlit or simply closed after dusk).

Main road routes are easier to navigate than back streets because you know where you are but back street routes, if they're still reasonably direct work well for some trips.

Personally I'm finding the changes to bus lane times are making a big difference on the A23 (Brixton Road north of Brixton) and A3 (elephant to Clapham and beyond), for trips outside rush hour. Those roads definitely feel better at night and weekends now when they used to often be terrifying even for a confidant cyclist. Black cabs can still be an issue as they seem to insist on close passing in a bus lane even if the lane next to it is clear.

Ask for main road cycleways in the consultations - the issue is they're expensive and they take a long time. TfL have consulted and and confirmed they will build protected tracks on the A23 through streatham but with their budget troubles due to COVID who knows how soon that will be built. That was supposed to be the first stage of protected cycling up to Oval. There were consultations around removing the Tulse Hill gyratory but again needed many millions from TfL that they don't currently have.

I don't know where you're starting from but there are changes to help get north

• Rosendale Road (approved but waiting on funding I think)
• the Streatham Hill and Tulse Hill LTNs are good to ride through now (though winding your way though isn't very direct)
• bus lanes on A23 are now all hours and days. protected space coming on Streatham High Road
• the A3 superhighway is pretty good now. The bus lanes are wide and all hours.

It sounds like you might be coming from around Norwood and I hate riding around there - busy main roads and rat running on all the back streets. Needs work.