The problem is there aren’t really any non racist equivalents to hold it up against. In modern times at least.
British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'
- Thread starter hipipol
- Start date
PTK
Paul Kegan
The government of the UK is not allowed to remove the citizenship of a UK citizen if doing so would make them stateless. The government of the UK claims that removing the citizenship of Shamima Begum would not render her stateless, because she would be entitled to claim citizenship of the People’s Republic of Bangladesh, on account of the fact that her parents are originally from the territory of that state.
When first I heard of this argument, I realised that, like many other people in Britain, I am now a second-class citizen of the UK. In theory, I am entitled to claim citizenship of another state, on account of the origins of my late mother. Thus, if I displease the Home Secretary, I could be stripped of my UK citizenship.
Anyone with a Jewish grandmother could be stripped of their UK citizenship, on the grounds that they are entitled to become a citizen of the State of Israel
Anyone with an Irish grandparent could be stripped of their UK citizenship, on the grounds that they are entitled to become a citizen the Republic of Ireland.
However, someone who incurred the displeasure of the Home Secretary who was not entitled to the citizenship of another state could not be stripped of their UK citizenship.
When first I heard of this argument, I realised that, like many other people in Britain, I am now a second-class citizen of the UK. In theory, I am entitled to claim citizenship of another state, on account of the origins of my late mother. Thus, if I displease the Home Secretary, I could be stripped of my UK citizenship.
Anyone with a Jewish grandmother could be stripped of their UK citizenship, on the grounds that they are entitled to become a citizen of the State of Israel
Anyone with an Irish grandparent could be stripped of their UK citizenship, on the grounds that they are entitled to become a citizen the Republic of Ireland.
However, someone who incurred the displeasure of the Home Secretary who was not entitled to the citizenship of another state could not be stripped of their UK citizenship.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Jack Letts stripped of his British citizenship after joining Isis.
Clearly the victim of a racist policy.
Clearly the victim of a racist policy.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Xenophobic policy.
Well remembered.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He knew and agreed that he had Canadian citizenship, as did the Canadian authorities (and he hasn't been left stateless like Begum). Not in any way comparable.
Begum in no way consented to the idea that she was Bangladeshi. Didn't even know it was a possibility. Why would she? Walk down Bethnal Green Road and ask a few kids of Bangladeshi heritage if they know they're (theoretically) dual citizens, and see how many of them do.
And what about the wider public who expect to be protected by the state?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ah I see. Those of us who disagree with you are not 'the wider public'.
It's really fucking objectionable to make this kind of point. The answer is that you make the case that this is wrong, that this is not the way to do it. You talk as if there were a bunch of such people who are what, too stupid to understand the argument?
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I think following the Manchester Arena bombing, the optics wouldn’t be good to simply welcome Begum back with open arms. Obviously some on here will argue against state power (which I agree with) so by ‘wider public’ I mean folk who don’t really question state power and are more concerned with the safety of themselves and their loved ones. I assume that is the wider view in society.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A whole field full of scarecrows.
She would face jail time if she were to return, and I would support that.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Because she wouldn't have been a dual citizen!
That's a bonkers "if buts and maybes" post. If she or her parents had cancelled the Bangladeshi citizenship before she joined the ISIL rapists, they wouldn't have been able to strip her either.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
'People who join a completely legal overseas organisation are being treated differently to those who join and support proscribed genocidal rape cults'.
Fucking seriously?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You realise that this is no less bollocks now than it was when you were spouting it last year, right?
It’s just a figure of speech.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
The Jack Letts case shows the government will revoke citizenship, if you go and join a death cult, no matter what race a person may be.
Now, you can argue about whether that's right or wrong as much as you like, but to claim it's a racist policy is just silly.
Personally I am a little uncomfortable about citizenship being withdrawn, but that's the law, and when it comes to twats going to join a death cult, I don't give a flying fuck TBH, much the same as most people.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Its activities are a long way from lawful.'People who join a completely legal overseas organisation are being treated differently to those who join and support proscribed genocidal rape cults'.
Fucking seriously?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ah, are you another member of 'the wider public'?
Fucking useless position to take. have a fucking word.
Yeah, fuck those at the harsh end of terrorist atrocities and concentrate on the rights of those who perpetrate them, eh?
teqniq
DisMembered
Yes, seriously. Particularly in light of the ICJ ruling and the undeniable evidence that war crimes have been and still are being committed by the IDF'People who join a completely legal overseas organisation are being treated differently to those who join and support proscribed genocidal rape cults'.
Fucking seriously?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Then campaign for the IDF to be declared a proscribed organisation. Unless and until it is, your point is on the ridiculous side of moot.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain how what I have written is nonsense.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Shamima Begum perpetrated atrocities? Perhaps you can provide evidence for this, so that she can be charged and prosecuted.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Two can play the game of making silly accusations.
Why are you opposing the rule of law?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
People who are "entitled to claim citizenship of another state" but have not done so (like yourself) are not dual citizens. They are solely citizens of their home nation. As such they cannot be stripped of that citizenship as it would make them stateless.
Some nations confer citizenship on the basis of the parents bloodline (jus sanguinis). Israel IS one of those nations but the child's birth must be registered within 30 days to qualify. If your parents didn't do that when you were born, you're not an Israeli citizen and you would have to apply to become one.
Nobody can be stripped of their UK citizenship because they had a Jewish grandmother. Preposterous on several levels.
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Ground Hog day again.
At least 2 other British terror suspects have been rendered de facto stateless but again, no one here seemed that bothered.
Alexanda Kotey - Wikipedia
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