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Brexit party on 31 January in London is going ahead. And it will be shit.

Going back to the title of this thread in claiming the Brexit celebration would be ‘shit’ - from what I’ve seen of it - it was the entire opposite and a roaring success.

Michelle Dewberry’s speech was as enthusiastic as it was optimistic.

One soundbite from one of the speakers worth a mention went along the lines of - today there are no longer leavers and remainers, today we are all leavers.
 
The39thStep said:
So where does the EU go from here? What direction will it take ?
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If their own proposals are anything to go by, the core eurozone nations (France, Germany, Austria, Benelux countries, maybe Italy and Spain) will press ahead with much deeper integration. The Nordic countries will remain either wholly or semi-out, and the A8 will continue to chafe at Brussels' restrictions (while having no intention of leaving due to the economic perks). Pretty much where it is now, just with the currents hardening into policy.
 
Proper Tidy said:
Nothing actually happened last night and the absolute meltdown on here
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Absolute meltdown? A bunch of bored people having a surprisingly civil conversation on a Friday night is not a meltdown, you tool :D You and the people who liked that post might want to pretend that remainers were having a meltdown because it suits your preconceptions, but it didn't actually happen.

Marty1 said:
Going back to the title of this thread in claiming the Brexit celebration would be ‘shit’ - from what I’ve seen of it - it was the entire opposite and a roaring success.

Michelle Dewberry’s speech was as enthusiastic as it was optimistic.

One soundbite from one of the speakers worth a mention went along the lines of - today there are no longer leavers and remainers, today we are all leavers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what a lovely thing to say, everybody's been forced to leave even if they didn't want to - that's a heartwarming sentiment :)
 
scifisam said:
Absolute meltdown? A bunch of bored people having a surprisingly civil conversation on a Friday night is not a meltdown, you tool :D You and the people who liked that post might want to pretend that remainers were having a meltdown because it suits your preconceptions, but it didn't actually happen
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Sorry Sam, wasn't aimed at you and this thread wasn't the worst by a long way so I prob should have posted it somewhere else.

But if you don't think there was a meltdown on here then I dunno what to say really. Some people made right dicks of themselves
 
I feel like I have almost no political identity now. I refuse to sneer at people who have grasped that brief illusion they have gained some kind of control over their lives when I have seen year after year year of political action subject to state observation, police control, and media feed fucking. The revolutionary forces are in a fucking dreadful place now. We have been sold out, eaten out, and subject to side issue upon side issue. How the fcuk has it come to the situation that an EU flag party has become the counterpoise to the red apron being paraded outside parliament square? A few years back it was a mock guillotine and executioner on tower hill. I refuse to give a fuck whether some EU eurocrat or trumpite loyalist is my chosen shitter upon. We need to gather our forces, identify the real political issues that face us - a climate that is in total collapse - states and corporations that have AI at their disposal- the attempted total control by social media corps. And define our own battles.
 
Azrael said:
If their own proposals are anything to go by, the core eurozone nations (France, Germany, Austria, Benelux countries, maybe Italy and Spain) will press ahead with much deeper integration. The Nordic countries will remain either wholly or semi-out, and the A8 will continue to chafe at Brussels' restrictions (while having no intention of leaving due to the economic perks). Pretty much where it is now, just with the currents hardening into policy.
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Yep I was reading an article this morning which said further integration would be the only way it could survive/ develop
 
Proper Tidy said:
[...] it's the complete blindness to what the EU actually is that pisses me off
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As the most hard-headed political theorists love to remind us, nation states are basically glorified protection rackets, which is at once true, and wholly misses that countries are so much more than their foundations.
 
The39thStep said:
Yep I was reading an article this morning which said further integration would be the only way it could survive/ develop
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In its current form, undoubtedly, which is why I have a lotta time for out-and-out federalists, who offer the most coherent future path for the E.U. . Ever closer union only ever had one endpoint. It's intergovernmentalists in denial about its direction of travel who'll suffer the most angst.
 
Proper Tidy said:
Social democracy, lol. Not only is it not in any way social democratic, it prohibits member states from implementing measures that could be considered social democratic.

If you don't think a bloc of nation states with an unelected executive is tops down then there is no fucking hope for this convo.

It's just sentimentality and nonsense isn't it. Je suis european
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I’m not European any more, because you won. And I’d have spoken German because that’s the language I’m most fluent in.

Not sure why you’re still so angry, mind- surely having been given what you wanted you and Marty and the like should all be happy and setting off into the future..... I‘m still not certain what that future is because no one seems able to describe it, but hey ho. Sure it will be sunlit.
 
S☼I said:
Lol. Reminds me of revealing to some fellow PGCE students I'd voted Leave for socialist reasons and having them start listing European holiday destinations as though suddenly they'd been placed on an unreachable planet
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it’s not an annual holiday that’s at stake though, is it? That’s just more expensive insurance and a bit of queuing
 
Manter said:
it’s not an annual holiday that’s at stake though, is it? That’s just more expensive insurance and a bit of queuing
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What does it mean to feel European? I genuinely don't know what that might be like, or how the way the UK does business with other countries changing might alter that
 
The supposedly victorious government sure aren’t acting like winners: instead of London’s sky alight with fireworks illuminating a Bacchanalian public holiday beneath (remember Al “Boris” bellowing about our “independence day” in the final referendum debates?), Brexit’s snuck out after dark like an inmate being whisked from the prison gates, with even “Brexit hard man” Steve Baker now making nervous speeches on the floor of the Commons urging its supporters not to be triumphalist; what passes for the national celebration’s a cold, muddy huddle of Kippers beached on Parliament Square; and in a blunt display of Britain’s new status, we awake to find that Brussels now backs Spain’s claim to Gibraltar.

Meanwhile, the supposed losers are saying “told ya so”, and daring to predict rejoining a lot quicker than they would even a month ago.

Turnabout comes fast and furious these days!
 
It’s remarkable that within the workers rights haven that is the EU that in some jobs you have an app on your phone which tells you when you can work ( obviously if you are unable to and can’t get cover you get fined) . Of course we could have a situation where we support and advocate workers getting into trade unions , democratising the unions and trade unions fighting for rights at work up and above the EU standards. Some if the ‘new unions’ and the RMT have done this very well off their own backs . Might seem a tad old fashioned but that’s one of thes way the Tories are going to be pushed back.
 
S☼I said:
What does it mean to feel European? I genuinely don't know what that might be like, or how the way the UK does business with other countries changing might alter that
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It’s difficult to explain in the way that it would be hard to explain ‘feeling British’.

Easiest way to describe it I guess is that when I was travelling and I got back to Europe I felt like I was home again.
 
S☼I said:
Lol. Reminds me of revealing to some fellow PGCE students I'd voted Leave for socialist reasons and having them start listing European holiday destinations as though suddenly they'd been placed on an unreachable planet
Click to expand...
So how you feeling now about your decision to vote leave for socialist reasons?
 
S☼I said:
Lol. Reminds me of revealing to some fellow PGCE students I'd voted Leave for socialist reasons and having them start listing European holiday destinations as though suddenly they'd been placed on an unreachable planet
Click to expand...
Nobody went to Europe before the EU sort of stuff . I had mates who even went to Albania and the GDR ,buying a cheap visa a week before or on the border . I went through Yugoslavia and all they asked for was my passport . Got fleeced in Italy though on the train for not having a ticket .
 
Didn't really give a shit til i got to Norwich after a 12 hour shift in London last night and a wacky bearded guy welcomed commuters in a union jack suit. i wasn't mature i made a wanker sign in his face and smacked hid union jack top hat off his head. Reassuringly he was completely ignored and I fucked off without anyone Batt Ng an eyelid.
 
I voted leave and would again. When was a smooth withdrawal from the EU with no victims going to be on the table? If you havered so as not to throw some people under the bus felt like you were just throwing others under (or into the sea) instead, so I stuck to the basic question, in or out. The consequences of a remain victory for further centralisation and technocratic end-running round democracy were also a consideration.
The form it's taken is hardly something to celebrate, but I'm pleased that it's delivered a check to the EU project.
 
JimW said:
I voted leave and would again. When was a smooth withdrawal from the EU with no victims going to be on the table? If you havered so as not to throw some people under the bus felt like you were just throwing others under (or into the sea) instead, so I stuck to the basic question, in or out. The consequences of a remain victory for further centralisation and technocratic end-running round democracy were also a consideration.
The form it's taken is hardly something to celebrate, but I'm pleased that it's delivered a check to the EU project.
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Exactly. When I stripped away all the other flannel and just answered the question In or Out (while mindful of why) it was a lot easier.
 
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