Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

EU

  • Brexit

  • Bremain

  • Abstain

Results are only viewable after voting.
Teaboy said:
I'm using Scotland and Quebec where voter turn out was very high and were both called more or less correctly by the pollsters. Of course what is being asked is a big issue for example the turn out for the AV referendum was low, but I think the nature of that issue is nothing compared to this.

I think we'll see turnout close to, if not higher then for Scotland.
Click to expand...
Right so you're cherry picking three examples out of hundreds. Not finding your argument particularly convincing TBH.
 
Need to read up on this a bit more. didn't know the UK had only been in the EU since 1973, kind of thought it was just after world war 2. The bit after after the war about integrating europe to prevent another world war sounded good, I'm not sure about what happened since.
 
In the 1975 referendum, when asked to vote on whether the UK should remain in the EC (Common Market).
The result was 65% Yes on a 67% turnout, approximately 17.4 million Yes to 8.4 million No.
I was only 17 so didn't vote but I have never spoke to anyone who will admit they voted yes!
By coincidence the referendum was called after Mr Wilson had been to Europe to renegotiate the terms of the UK membership.

I do not think the 2016 referendum will be so one sided at this moment in time, it will be interesting to see what the divisions come up with in their quest to secure the alleged unsure third of voters.
 
EastEnder said:
Maybe. Although as I understand it, the failings of the pollsters in the general election were essentially put down to them canvassing too many people who never actually bothered to vote. They asked lots of younger people (social media bias, etc), who tended to me more left wing, but when it came to voting it was the older, more right wing who actually went to the polling booths. Could the same thing happen with the referendum?
Click to expand...

Yes, Not everyone wears their politics on their sleeve. They don't talk about it, they don't bang on about it on twitter. They don't answer the door if the persons holding a clipboard and wearing some kind of rosette.
 
Do I have it right that first it was the EEC in 1957, then that got called the EC in 1967, UK joined in 1973, then in 1992 that became the EU?
 
rutabowa said:
Do I have it right that first it was the EEC in 1957, then that got called the EC in 1967, UK joined in 1973, then in 1992 that became the EU?
Click to expand...
European Coal and Steel Community first from 51 (and the nazi state before that) and EU from 93. But the names don't really matter - the context in which they changed do though. I/e a 'union' formed at the height of post-war social democracy or post-war reconstruction is one very different from one looking to 'work' in modern neo-liberal conditions.
 
ffsear said:
Yes, Not everyone wears their politics on their sleeve. They don't talk about it, they don't bang on about it on twitter. They don't answer the door if the persons holding a clipboard and wearing some kind of rosette.
Click to expand...
Polling companies are also aware of all this, and their weighting formulas take it into account. The predictions they publish aren't just the raw percentage responses they get from their sample.
 
butchersapron said:
European Coal and Steel Community first from 51 (and the nazi state before that) and EU from 93. But the names don't really matter - the context in which they changed do though. I/e a 'union' formed at the height of post-war social democracy or post-war reconstruction is one very different from one looking to 'work' in modern neo-liberal conditions.
Click to expand...
Right... I'm just getting the basics though. So, what specific events could I look to as turning points where it "went bad"? Then I'll go look them up.
 
rutabowa said:
Right... I'm just getting the basics though. So, what specific events could I look to as turning points where it "went bad"? Then I'll go look them up.
Click to expand...
It's not my view that it 'went bad' - rather, it's followed essentially the same interests in different conditions: post-war reconstruction (building up core material industries) social democracy (establishing internationally competitive nature of core industries via productivity rises and small scale redistribution) post oil shock and 70s recession (directly cutting wages in core areas) post-79 (selling working class to globally mobile capital) post 2007-8 crash (big bad austerity monger). Same interest across all of these phases - stabilising states and capital and defusing social antagonisms into non threatening avenues.
 
butchersapron said:
It's not my view that it 'went bad' - rather, it's followed essentially the same interests in different conditions: post-war reconstruction (building up core material industries) social democracy (establishing internationally competitive nature of core industries via productivity rises and small scale redistribution) post oil shock and 70s recession (directly cutting wages in core areas) post-79 (selling working class to globally mobile capital) post 2007-8 crash (big bad austerity monger). Same interest across all of these phases - stabilising states and capital and defusing social antagonisms into non threatening avenues.
Click to expand...
Maybe it followed the same interests throughout, but I guess "building up core material industries" could be seen as a pretty positive consequence, "productivity rises and small scale redistribution" too more arguably. Whereas the later consequences are pretty unarguably negative.... which I suppose is what I meant by "went bad". I think I get that you are saying it was essentially the same thing but operating in a different environment... so it was essentially always a negative force regardless of whether there were some positive consequences early on.
 
rutabowa said:
Maybe it followed the same interests throughout, but I guess "building up core material industries" could be seen as a pretty positive consequence, "productivity rises and small scale redistribution" too more arguably. Whereas the later consequences are pretty unarguably negative.... which I suppose is what I meant by "went bad". I think I get that you are saying it was essentially the same thing but operating in a different environment... so it was essentially always a negative force regardless of whether there were some positive consequences early on.
Click to expand...

What it's always done (and will continue to do) is follow the interests of mainstream capital as they were generally seen at the time.

All the examples BA gives were done for the benefit of capitalists, not workers. Any positive consequences for workers were incidental, and can be (in fact already are being) withdrawn if the current requirements of capitalism dictate.
 
andysays said:
All the examples BA gives were done for the benefit of capitalists, not workers. Any positive consequences for workers were incidental, and can be (in fact already are being) withdrawn if the current requirements of capitalism dictate.
Click to expand...
Yes I get that. I guess it is important, for me anyway, to also understand that there were positive consequences for everyone as well though, whether they were intended or not. Otherwise it would be easy for everyone to decide wouldn't it.
 
I'll probably abstain. Little will change if Britain leaves. Britain won't be kicked out of the Single Market. The EU won't become more democratic, or Britain more socialist. Immigration patterns won't change much. That said, I think the vote will be to stay.
 
If Brexit happens we can say a huge goodbye to workers rights and all, for example. Like a little US.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
“Be Lazy. Just Vote”
Replies
3
Views
2K
Monkeygrinder's Organ
M
TopCat
  • Poll
WPGB or LP
2 3 4
Replies
111
Views
4K
redsquirrel
R
RubyBlue
Who to vote for?
Replies
14
Views
488
dessiato
dessiato
ash
Another Brexit benefit- using Wi-Fi in Europe
2
Replies
51
Views
2K
Elpenor
Elpenor
P
In Blackpool South, did people vote because they are head over heals with Labour
Replies
27
Views
996
A380
A380
Back
Top Bottom