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Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

EU

  • Brexit

  • Bremain

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this'll be the only time I don't spoil my ballot and I vote in everything. Even the PCC elections that no one else does. I know its 'twats to the left of me fuckers to the right of me' but I'm well out of it. Bunch of cunts. The right will do as it always does, operate capital so at the end of the day its a vote to spite them. Not after greece not afer italy. They can go fuck themselves and I hope an exit victory destabalises the entire project to breaking point. Its a capitalit boys club. Liberals are refusing to get this. They just fucked an entire country over !
then that lib/green nob free spirit says 'they couldn't do that to us'

you fucking penis. Injury to one injury to all. And no they couldn't currency fuck us like they did to greece but there would be serious capital strike in order to create a sense of emrgencey. We've got to go, these cunts have redefined rapacious
 
DotCommunist said:
this'll be the only time I don't spoil my ballot and I vote in everything. Even the PCC elections that no one else does. I know its 'twats to the left of me fuckers to the right of me' but I'm well out of it. Bunch of cunts. The right will do as it always does, operate capital so at the end of the day its a vote to spite them. Not after greece not afer italy. They can go fuck themselves and I hope an exit victory destabalises the entire project to breaking point. Its a capitalit boys club. Liberals are refusing to get this. They just fucked an entire country over !
then that lib/green nob free spirit says 'they couldn't do that to us'

you fucking penis. Injury to one injury to all. And no they couldn't currency fuck us like they did to greece but there would be serious capital strike in order to create a sense of emrgencey. We've got to go, these cunts have redefined rapacious
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Ranting populist rage towards the EU, been quite a bit of that around lately. But yeh they're all evil lizard men.
 
youngian said:
Ranting populist rage towards the EU, been quite a bit of that around lately. But yeh they're all evil lizard men.
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been around since italy for me. I'll drag the quotes out if you like? But by all means, do your best to paint others as unaware when to my eyes the bleatings from your quarter only started recently when the EU ref campaigns started and you realised 'holy shit they fucking hate us and might fuck us up'

you'll win anyway. Your sorts always do.
 
I don't see the argument for spoiling in this instance. Surely in a normal election spoiling says "I want to record my willingness to participate but I don't like these options above I want other ones", or perhaps "I care about how the country is run but I don't like participatory democracy pls don't think I don't care".

Not sure how that applies here, by spoiling the referendum what message are you hoping to send? "I want to participate in an in/out referendum but I don't"?
 
bi0boy said:
I don't see the argument for spoiling in this instance. Surely in a normal election spoiling says "I want to record my willingness to participate but I don't like these options above I want other ones", or perhaps "I care about how the country is run but I don't like participatory democracy pls don't think I don't care".

Not sure how that applies here, by spoiling the referendum what message are you hoping to send? "I want to participate in an in/out referendum but I don't"?
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"I would love to vote for something that wasn't between two shitty options like these"
 
the right to vote includes the right not do so, end of. Although I would prefer abstainers to vote cock n balls cos thats at least funny and cannot happen enough times
 
S☼I said:
It's not, though, it's a vote between scenarios, and what they might mean. But yeah, kittens, good
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Sure it's distilled into a binary choice. You could have lots of options regarding this country's relationship with Europe but then the winning option would likely only have minority support. Or you could fuck Cameron's silly referendum off entirely and leave it to our elected representatives to manage our relationship with Europe, but then spoiling doesn't support that view.
 
S☼I said:
I know a bit about the arguments for leaving, but I'm having a hard time envisioning a circumstance where leaving will ever lead to the sort of advantages those on here advocating a (ugh) "Lexit" would theoretically bring.
Still intending to spoil my paper, if I go at all. Aside from here all other arguments are doing my tits in.
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Officially I'm leave. But in reality come the day I don't think I'll be able to stomach going down and actually voting for it. Thing is if we do vote to leave will I be happy, will I feel we have won some sort of victory? Frankly no. In fact I think I will feel more miserable and depressed by an out vote than an in one.
 
I'm thinking of "Neither of the choices we've been offered".

Dotty you reacted angrily to criticism of your post but had thrown in stuff like "Its a capitalit boys club. Liberals are refusing to get this." I do get it, are you saying that any of the British governments since Thatcher haven't been?

It's not just an 'out' vote it's an 'out into something else'. I hope 'out' win but the larger the majority the more the tories will take it as justification to have a go at immigrants and environmental and health/safety laws. Liberals are refusing to get this.
 
DotCommunist said:
been around since italy for me. I'll drag the quotes out if you like? But by all means, do your best to paint others as unaware when to my eyes the bleatings from your quarter only started recently when the EU ref campaigns started and you realised 'holy shit they fucking hate us and might fuck us up'

you'll win anyway. Your sorts always do.
Click to expand...
Is this a moral question or a practical one? What has happened in Italy, Greece, Spain, etc, is not really of much practical relevance to the UK's membership of the EU as the UK isn't in the euro. Not being in the euro means the UK is in a completely different kind of EU from the countries in the eurozone, which are tied together politically and economically, with the Germans and French calling most of the shots.

If it's a moral question, I'm pretty much with two sheds above - for the last few decades there has been precious little moral about the UK as a political entity, hardly any better (and by some measures worse) than the EU taken as a whole. The UK didn't have its austerity imposed on it by the EU, after all. If it's a practical question, citing what has happened in the eurozone doesn't quite cut it.
 
When the vote is done, then we start the next campaign. Your in is simply a 'we can't change anything really, so let's make sure we can At least maintain the status quo

(That was to two sheds, but works for lbj too)
 
belboid said:
When the vote is done, then we start the next campaign. Your in is simply a 'we can't change anything really, so let's make sure we can At least maintain the status quo
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The point being, surely, that this isn't the campaign. The campaign that matters is the one against austerity. This referendum doesn't even touch on that.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
The point being, surely, that this isn't the campaign. The campaign that matters is the one against austerity. This referendum doesn't even touch on that.
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Of course it is, if you think the EU isn't partially responsible for austerity, you're mistaken. They do impose their economy will even without us using the euro
 
S☼I said:
I know a bit about the arguments for leaving, but I'm having a hard time envisioning a circumstance where leaving will ever lead to the sort of advantages those on here advocating a (ugh) "Lexit" would theoretically bring.
Still intending to spoil my paper, if I go at all. Aside from here all other arguments are doing my tits in.
Click to expand...

It's about bargaining power. Only organised labour can force changes that benefit ordinary people. Organised labour is weaker inside the EU than out, and that's regardless of how many 'protections' are promised by the EU elite.
 
bi0boy said:
It's an in/out choice. What do you want to vote for? Kittens?
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ItWillNeverWork said:
It's about bargaining power. Only organised labour can force changes that benefit ordinary people. Organised labour is weaker inside the EU than out, and that's regardless of how many 'protections' are promised by the EU elite.
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There is a range of power for organised labour within the EU. From the UK with its Thatcherite anti-union laws to the likes of Denmark, where the unions are embedded deeply into the system, organising minimum wages, etc. I'm not convinced that membership or not of the EU makes much if any difference.

It's also not quite right to call what the EU currently provides " 'protections' ". They're backed by law and enforceable. Tell part-time workers who now have holiday pay that it makes no difference. Such things haven't been simply bestowed from above either. Various labour unions have been involved in producing them.
 
Last edited:
belboid said:
When the vote is done, then we start the next campaign. Your in is simply a 'we can't change anything really, so let's make sure we can At least maintain the status quo

(That was to two sheds, but works for lbj too)
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The left would have trouble getting a deposit back, its not there as a political force to lead us into some post-eu utopia. On the other hand politicians like Grayling and IDS will be in the ascendant if the vote is leave.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
There is a range of power for organised labour within the EU. From the UK with its Thatcherite anti-union laws to the likes of Denmark, where the unions are embedded deeply into the system, organising minimum wages, etc. I'm not convinced that membership or not of the EU makes much if any difference.

It's also not quite right to call what the EU currently provides " 'protections' ". They're backed by law and enforceable. Tell part-time workers who now have holiday pay that it makes no difference. Such things haven't been simply bestowed from above either. Various labour unions have been involved in producing them.
Click to expand...

But this doesn't address the question of how it was possible for Thatcher to introduce those anti-union laws in the first place. What were the conditions that led to the weakness of organised labour at that point in time? I would argue that the free movement of labour and capital that came about as a result of joining the EEC played some part in this weakness.
 
ItWillNeverWork said:
But this doesn't address the question of how it was possible for Thatcher to introduce those anti-union laws in the first place. What were the conditions that led to the weakness of organised labour at that point in time? I would argue that the free movement of labour and capital that came about as a result of joining the EEC played some part in this weakness.
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aye, cos the miners strike as caused by moving all the mines to bangladesh, and importing cheap Polish workers

(ps, we didn't really have free movement when we joined the EEC, that didn't happen until '92)
 
I'll vote for a Lexit when Britain starts electing itself leftist governments. Until then, there's no use shifting power from Brussels to the horrible Tory cunts running the country.

A "Leave" vote isn't a vote against capitalism, it's a vote to get in bed with the Ukippers and no good will come of it.
 
Yossarian said:
I'll vote for a Lexit when Britain starts electing itself leftist governments. Until then, there's no use shifting power from Brussels to the horrible Tory cunts running the country.

A "Leave" vote isn't a vote against capitalism, it's a vote to get in bed with the Ukippers and no good will come of it.
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Why are you voting for Goldman Sachs and David Cameron?
 
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