Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

[Ranbay]

Just seen this posted on another forum I use (there is others you know)

If a poll on local Facebook page is anything to go by ,we will be leaving the EU .
95 -out
35- in
9 -undecided

 

[gosub]

Just seen this posted on another forum I use (there is others you know)

If a poll on local Facebook page is anything to go by ,we will be leaving the EU .
95 -out
35- in
9 -undecided

Thinking like that is why it took Ed Milliband til midnight on polling day to realize he wasn't going to be PM

 

[weltweit]

Just seen this posted on another forum I use (there is others you know)

If a poll on local Facebook page is anything to go by ,we will be leaving the EU .
95 -out
35- in
9 -undecided

Looks like we have more in this thread's poll at top then.

 

[DrRingDing]

I foresee people will vote for less democracy and a bigger state.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yes that's precisely what they are going to vote for. Pity all the sheeple don't have your political nouse.

 

[DrRingDing]

Yes that's precisely what they are going to vote for. Pity all the sheeple don't have your political nouse.

Let's hear you counter my claims then. And not spout pathetic strawmen.

 

[DrRingDing]

Yes that's precisely what they are going to vote for. Pity all the sheeple don't have your political nouse.

Nous.

 

[DrRingDing]

A nouse is something very different from what you meant.

 

[DrRingDing]

 

[tim]

I'm really fed up with the liberal moral police. If you apply the same principles would castigate the Tibetan people for complaining about Chinese immigration. During the Second World War the French would be lectured about their despicable prejudice towards Germans.

I know what I say comes over all wrong but the only other option I have is to shut up about how I feel. If you look through my past posts, there is no hint of me being accused of being a racist or a bigot it's only since recent mass immigration and the endless lunacy of extreme Islam that it's been a concern. Anyone accusing me of being a racist is a complete fucking half wit.

80 years ago you'd have been moaning about the Jews.

 

[tim]

Yes that's precisely what they are going to vote for. Pity all the sheeple don't have your political nouse.

Two fantasy animals in one short post, impressive

 

[Nylock]

Shame you can't change your vote here... I'm undecided now, veering towards exit...

 

[William of Walworth]

The biggest thing that doesn't convince me about Brexit is something I mentioned a while back -- I simply fail to see how Brexit can make TTIP any more likely to be resisted, or any more likely to have its impact weakened, or made any less bad, or made any us any more likely to keep out of it.

I'm also unconvinced that left activists here will find it any easier to resist capitalism more generally, outside the EU.

None of the above is any kind of defence of the EU by the way. I'm still (just) more likely to vote remain even so, but mainly for the not very well thought out gut-reaction reason that I fucking hate most (establishment) people in the various Out campaigns EVEN more than I hate most of the (establishment) Inners.

And at in-the-pub level, adopting a Brexit position even for the most leftwing of reasons, risks putting you in the unwelcome company of arseholes (at best).

 

[William of Walworth]

Also, less important but still significant : another gut reaction.

I think (most) people, not on here, who are really obsessive about the 'evils' of the EU pick the wrong ones (the fictional ones). So many of single issue anti-EU drivellers come over as demented headcases who absolutely love to believe the lies that Boris Johnson and such people put out about it.

And never think about any of the real probems and issues that are EU-associated.

In rush before work ... I will need more time on all this, clearly. Moar later etc.

 

[Ranbay]

Currently winding people up that think leaving the EU means they wont be European any more they can't grasp that Europe is a continent and nothing to do with the EU

 

[Greebozz]

The biggest thing that doesn't convince me about Brexit is something I mentioned a while back -- I simply fail to see how Brexit can make TTIP any more likely to be resisted, or any more likely to have its impact weakened, or made any less bad, or made any us any more likely to keep out of it.

I'm also unconvinced that left activists here will find it any easier to resist capitalism more generally, outside the EU.

None of the above is any kind of defence of the EU by the way. I'm still (just) more likely to vote remain even so, but mainly for the not very well thought out gut-reaction reason that I fucking hate most (establishment) people in the various Out campaigns EVEN more than I hate most of the (establishment) Inners.

And at in-the-pub level, adopting a Brexit position even for the most leftwing of reasons, risks putting you in the unwelcome company of arseholes (at best).

I hope you won't be forever cursed by me agreeing with you on this forum. I think there are so many better reasons to vote to leave the EU.

I'm convinced that the reason the political establishment want the UK to remain is to save themselves extra work. The bureaucrats are keeping everything ticking along nicely and the politicians can just have nice easy days.

Can you imagine the chaos of actually having to sort out new arrangements and Europe and bureaucratic power structures being dismantled. I feel be utterly fantastic to watch them hustle to create new trade deals.

That said I feel it would be done with a sense of pride. Rather like owning one's own business as opposed to working for McDonald's. If we continue in Europe were just become this faceless employee with little or no control over their destiny.

The thing I find absolutely priceless is that many hard-core lefties are basically going to be obeying David Cameron and George Osborne. "Frightened into obedience" as someone put it.

I also feel a lot of the arguments are staying in a like this. It's like being on a large ship that the captain and crew have been locked out of the bridge, someone else in control steering the ship. And people saying well things are okay because the ship is sort of going in the direction that we want, for the present time.

For example, the talk about needing immigration because of an ageing population. That's probably a fair point but we can have that if we want that for as long as we want if we leave Europe and if there's too much we can slow it down.

All the regulations, all the workers rights laws we can have if we are out of Europe because we can vote in the people that make up the parliament. If we vote to stay in Europe we have almost no control over anything or to be precise one vote out of 28 countries.

Not only is it one vote in 28 countries, but Britain is very different, separate from Europe anyway, and the constant feeling that the other European countries are far closer together because of their geological and historical closeness. We have always been rather the historic enemy the idea that they have any warmth or kindness for us, is bit of a stretch in my view.

 

[gosub]

The biggest thing that doesn't convince me about Brexit is something I mentioned a while back -- I simply fail to see how Brexit can make TTIP any more likely to be resisted, or any more likely to have its impact weakened, or made any less bad, or made any us any more likely to keep out of it.

I'm also unconvinced that left activists here will find it any easier to resist capitalism more generally, outside the EU.

None of the above is any kind of defence of the EU by the way. I'm still (just) more likely to vote remain even so, but mainly for the not very well thought out gut-reaction reason that I fucking hate most (establishment) people in the various Out campaigns EVEN more than I hate most of the (establishment) Inners.

And at in-the-pub level, adopting a Brexit position even for the most leftwing of reasons, risks putting you in the unwelcome company of arseholes (at best).

If Britain is sooo influential within the EU, the first thing I'd do if I was the rest of the EU is rip up what we helped shape and start again, whilst we have Obama's and Clinton's assurance we'd be at the back of the queue... Happy out, the deal is estimated to increase GDP by 0.6% insignificant enough to spurn in favour of 'what price democracy?'
OECD reckoned yesterday if outside EEA no UK deals inside 7 years, didn't give a figure for inside EEA(where theoretically TTIP if completed would have some effects on UK) but I don't think a TTIP negotiation reset would be the only impact on EU of our pull back to EEA/EFTA

 

[andysays]

...Britain is very different, separate from Europe anyway, and the constant feeling that the other European countries are far closer together because of their geological and historical closeness. We have always been rather the historic enemy the idea that they have any warmth or kindness for us, is bit of a stretch in my view.

Yeah, all those other EU countries, from Portugal in the west to Cyprus in the east, from Finland in the north to Malta in the south, are all far closer together geologically, historically and every other way than us in Britain.

I reckon the very idea that Britain is geographically part of the continent of Europe is just a liberal leftie lie, propagated to undermine our unique position as a proud bastion of a pure-white people and culture...

 

[redsquirrel]

Let's hear you counter my claims then. And not spout pathetic strawmen.

Look at the remain voters that have posted on U75, I've not seen anyway arguing for such nonsense.

I don't agree with the arguments of those voting to remain but to claim that they are voting for less democracy is the reverse of the moronic argument that a vote for leave for nationalism. People are voting for remain for all sorts of reasons, many people because of something like this

I'm still (just) more likely to vote remain even so, but mainly for the not very well thought out gut-reaction reason that I fucking hate most (establishment) people in the various Out campaigns EVEN more than I hate most of the (establishment) Inners.

others because they think the EU will protect some workers rights, others because they feel 'European', some because they support the neo-liberalism of the EU, some because they are worried about what they think might happen to friends and loved ones who aren't British citizens and lots because they would rather just stick with the devil they know.

To reduce the votes of all those voting for remain to voting for less democracy as stupid to claim that all the people who voted Labour last year were voting for neo-liberalism, despite that being exactly what the Labour party was going to give them. Only an anti-human wanker like you would dismiss 99% of the population like that.

 

[youngian]

Yeah, all those other EU countries, from Portugal in the west to Cyprus in the east, from Finland in the north to Malta in the south, are all far closer together geologically, historically and every other way than us in Britain.

I reckon the very idea that Britain is geographically part of the continent of Europe is just a liberal leftie lie, propagated to undermine our unique position as a proud bastion of a pure-white people and culture...

It's what Freud called the narcissism of small difference. He was applying it in the context of Austrians exaggerating their differences against their larger dominant German-speaking neighbour to make themselves feel a bit special. All EU nations have different narratives for coming together in the EU that's sort the point as to why this institution came into being; to find out what have in common and what policies we can pursue collectively.

 

[DrRingDing]

So, voting to remain for completely illogical reasons. This is not a popularity contest.

 

[butchersapron]

So, voting to remain for completely illogical reasons. This is not a popularity contest.

Why don't you ever say anything?

 

[redsquirrel]

So, voting to remain for completely illogical reasons.

Perhaps but that doesn't mean that they are the opponents of democracy that you are making them out to be.

The majority of people in Britain vote for neo-liberal parties, that doesn't make them supporters of neo-liberalism, we know that they aren't, the re-nationalisation of railways and utilities is hugely popular.

 

[andysays]

I foresee people will vote for less democracy and a bigger state.

Let's hear you counter my claims then. And not spout pathetic strawmen.

So, voting to remain for completely illogical reasons. This is not a popularity contest.

 

[DrRingDing]

Why don't you ever say anything?

Says you! How's about clearly stating yourself without using cryptic devices and shit grammar.

 

[butchersapron]

Says you! How's about clearly stating yourself without using cryptic devices and shit grammar.

That's exactly what i expected you to post. A decade and god knows how many shitty names and you've never once posted anything.

 

[Greebozz]

Yeah, all those other EU countries, from Portugal in the west to Cyprus in the east, from Finland in the north to Malta in the south, are all far closer together geologically, historically and every other way than us in Britain.

I reckon the very idea that Britain is geographically part of the continent of Europe is just a liberal leftie lie, propagated to undermine our unique position as a proud bastion of a pure-white people and culture...

If you said that last comment to my face, I would be tempted to give you a jab on the nose.

 

[DrRingDing]

That's exactly what i expected you to post. A decade and god knows how many shitty names and you've never once posted anything.

And you have spent a good 15 years avoiding clearly stating what you're arguing for. It's a good trick. But a trick it is.

 

[Obediah Marsh]

A war between France and Germany is as likely as a war between Britain and the US. There are arguments pro the EU but preventing World War III isn't among them.

 

[William of Walworth]

Immediately following part of one of my earlier posts from this morning ...

others because they think the EU will protect some workers rights, others because they feel 'European', some because they support the neo-liberalism of the EU, some because they are worried about what they think might happen to friends and loved ones who aren't British citizens and lots because they would rather just stick with the devil they know.

To reduce the votes of all those voting for remain to voting for less democracy as stupid to claim that all the people who voted Labour last year were voting for neo-liberalism, despite that being exactly what the Labour party was going to give them. Only an anti-human wanker like you would dismiss 99% of the population like that.

???

Was that addressed at me? It looked like it was. Do explain ...