there wasn’t a right to permanent residency - there was the right to move if you had a job or could otherwise support yourself.
the whole scrounging Eastern European’s myth - was a lie.
Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
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there wasn’t a right to permanent residency - there was the right to move if you had a job or could otherwise support yourself.
the whole scrounging Eastern European’s myth - was a lie.
josef1878 2.0
Well-Known Member
people keep posting these images of an empty parliament as if they mean anything when parliament is always empty atm and most MPs are attending remotely.
han
love is the answer
Things are starting to unravel pretty quickly, what with the collapse of fishing and many other businesses who can't make a profit any more due to all the form filling delays. Give it a year, when our economy has all but collapsed due to Brexit and Covid, and the reality hitting that stopping free movement also effects US, and we'll be begging to go back in. Including Leavers, I expect. And we'll be welcomed with open arms.
Voting to make trade more difficult was never going to end well. The people who voted for this need to experience it to believe it, sadly. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to go through it as well.
Voting to make trade more difficult was never going to end well. The people who voted for this need to experience it to believe it, sadly. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to go through it as well.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Seeing far too much of this sadly. It's beyond depressing.
I'm not a musician/don't drink wine/only eat cheddar/think fish should be left in the sea/don't want to live abroad/don't run a business and hate those who do.
Well fuck you too. Fuck you for imposing your limitations on the rest of us. Jaw-dropping sense of entitlement.
Only my priorities matter.
editor
hiraethified
FUCK BREXIT
www.theguardian.com
Someone you loved: how British pop could fade out in Europe
Brexit rule changes that make it tricky to tour the EU will hold back UK artists from a fast-growing market
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I've played music for all my adult and some of my teenage life. Hundreds of gigs in half a dozen bands but never travelled overseas just to play shows. Fronting the travel costs has always been completely beyond the means of the bands I've played in, so ''we'' (different combinations of ''we'' over the years IYSWIM) have had to stick to playing in the UK. On the other hand there's never been a lack of places to play.
There's a class element to this, for me. In a way, I have more sympathy for poor, marginalized communities where people voted Leave in droves and might now see their entire way of life smashed to pieces because they felt desperate and were lied to, than for articulate, educated, free-living performers who can if they really really want busk outside in the street and get paid easily enough. I don't mean to sound flippant (though I'm sure I do) but music can even be performed and sold on the internet, especially if you already have an audience.
A lot of non-musicians who are about to suffer badly from Brexit, don't have that option for what they do. And well they should have thought of that doesn't win any sympathy points either.
I admit that up-and-coming, trying-to-break-through musicians may well need the exposure of live work, but they generally aren't doing 6-country tours of Europe yet. And from another angle, it now arguably makes tours of North America relatively more attractive (perhaps even more so soon once UK-US agreements get made) and for British bands, NA is where the real money is.
There's a class element to this, for me. In a way, I have more sympathy for poor, marginalized communities where people voted Leave in droves and might now see their entire way of life smashed to pieces because they felt desperate and were lied to, than for articulate, educated, free-living performers who can if they really really want busk outside in the street and get paid easily enough. I don't mean to sound flippant (though I'm sure I do) but music can even be performed and sold on the internet, especially if you already have an audience.
A lot of non-musicians who are about to suffer badly from Brexit, don't have that option for what they do. And well they should have thought of that doesn't win any sympathy points either.
I admit that up-and-coming, trying-to-break-through musicians may well need the exposure of live work, but they generally aren't doing 6-country tours of Europe yet. And from another angle, it now arguably makes tours of North America relatively more attractive (perhaps even more so soon once UK-US agreements get made) and for British bands, NA is where the real money is.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
You're quite staggeringly wrong here.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
A long video, but worth it if you want some genuine insight into just how fucking ridiculous it's about to get for trucking companies.
Fuck. Brexit.
editor
hiraethified
This argument that only well off bands get to play abroad is utter fucking tosh, as is the notion that there's pots of money waiting for musicians if they only go outside and busk a bit.
Getting gigs abroad is often more about who you know, and not about how much you earn, and it - or rather was - entirely feasible to play gigs abroad for about the same outlay as some gigs in the UK.
In fact, sometimes it can be more financially rewarding than playing locally, as gigs in Europe can often pay loads more and provide backline/accommodation etc, so you've just got to bundle into a cheap rental car/your mate's transit van.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
OK. Feel free to expand, because I think I'm more right than wrong, and not only that I'm speaking as a musician.
I won't be watching any videos though.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
''Well off bands'' is pretty relative when you're on minimum wage, OK?
Also, I don't like it when you verbally abuse posters. You're moderator, you should act like it.
I didn't say ''pots of money'', I said you can busk and get paid. Which you can. Unless you only play indoors for an invited audience. How nice.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Well, it's easier to make money as a band playing around Europe than it is in the UK for starters. The whole scene and way gigs get paid is generally light years ahead of here.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Also, busking, seriously?
editor
hiraethified
I was in a band that played Europe when we were all on the dole. We had to nick food from service stations some days to eat. It's entirely possible with a bit of effort and imagination. I'm sorry none of your bands managed it, but there's plenty of bands with little money who have.
Similarly, I've put on bands from Europe at my Brixton shows and made sure that they've been able to make limited ends.
Apart from the fact that you're not allowed to busk right now, not everyone is capable of busking, or has the right gear.
Or do you think there's an unlimited space and an unlimited lucrative audience waiting to throw money at non-singing drummers, bass players etc?
And this notion that every musician is capable of busking is nonsense too. Busking is a talent and a skill that requires heaps of confidence and the ability to play the kind of crowd pleasing music that people will give money too.
Oh and I'm sorry if you think I 'verbally abused' because I neither meant to or think that I did. It was your ideas and sweeping statements that I was attacking, not you.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not sure that's still the case, in fact the premise of this thread is what was no longer is
bimble
floofy
When reading about this stuff I have one person in mind the most, someone i met through work and have been trying to help apply for grants and stuff. She’s a seriously brilliant 18 year old classical violinist , the soloist kind, but unusually for that world has no money - whole of her family is looking to her to earn their rent.
This stuff, visas and now also the cost of quarantining and getting covid tests before any performance, has fucked her life completely.
Just mentioning because it’s not just bands like people here seem to talk about it’s also the whole classical music world where very often it’s individuals on their own who have dedicated their lives and gotten into loads of debt to try to make it in music and who will absolutely need to travel to have a chance (to get the reviews and contacts to build a life) and won’t now. She could busk tho.
This stuff, visas and now also the cost of quarantining and getting covid tests before any performance, has fucked her life completely.
Just mentioning because it’s not just bands like people here seem to talk about it’s also the whole classical music world where very often it’s individuals on their own who have dedicated their lives and gotten into loads of debt to try to make it in music and who will absolutely need to travel to have a chance (to get the reviews and contacts to build a life) and won’t now. She could busk tho.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
OK, as I said, I wouldn't know. What makes it light years ahead?
I used to make up to 80, even 100 quid a day busking in the right place. No tax, cash in hand.
Also, scorn for busking, seriously?
When you're looking for solidarity?
Seriously?
editor
hiraethified
So because you were lucky enough to make money from busking, you assume that it would be the same for every other musician, regardless of what instrument they play, what style of music they play, where they live, and their ability (and confidence) to perform solo in the street?
Oh and you asked, "What makes it light years ahead?"
In short: better pay, better venues, more venues, better PA equipment, backline and hotels provided as standard with many gigs, with meals often thrown in too.
But of course, Brexit looks on course to torpedo some of those benefits.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Not scorn for busking, scorn for the idea that it's somehow an alternative to touring for bands, which is a bonkers idea.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Well yes, but you knew what I meant
klang
klang
If you could tell me how you make money by selling music on the net I'd be very grateful.
fwiw - the only time I ever made money from playing in bands was playing festivals or by getting royalties off music I've written played by others at festivals, the vast majority of them overseas. And no, not planning to go busking as a mediocre drummer anytime soon.
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klang
klang
should have done though.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep. There's a fair bit of inverted snobbery on here towards classical musicians. I used to work with someone who was giving it a go as an opera singer while temping admin jobs. She needed to travel to Norway for her lessons. Spent all her money on it, pretty much. She was an amazing singer - too good, in fact, to get lesser work in the chorus. It was stardom or bust.
klang
klang
is there? who said what when?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Maybe not on this thread. There was mockery of the idea of viola players struggling that I remember recently on one of the brexit threads.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
A mate of mine is an "anarcho folk/punk" singer who does (did) tours of Europe, they sorted out places to play and got others involved and got some of the bands they met to play over here at their gigs.
They get (got) (generally) more, respect, more money, more food and accommodation, proper backline and more merch sales
They don't have hardly any money but do better in Europe
They get (got) (generally) more, respect, more money, more food and accommodation, proper backline and more merch sales
They don't have hardly any money but do better in Europe
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
before the pandemic i used to see a mediocre drummer busking outside kings x, he was there on a reasonably regular basis. i have no doubt you'd be better than one drum man who used a couple of years back to 'busk' outside dalston kingsland, striking one bongo with one hand on, to be very kind, i'll call a syncopated beat
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