TopCat
Putin fanboy
That's the spirit.
Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
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beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
When my industry is on the verge of being completely fucked over due to a cavalcade of lies, then yes, it’s exactly the spirit.
Fuxk Brexit and every single cunt that voted for it. This shit show was always utterly inevitable.
editor
hiraethified
Really. So you actually envisage loads of people all pretending to be musicians and then pretending to go on pretend tours abroad with their fellow pretend musicians, all paying £227/year?
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
No of course not but that will still be an argument against it won't it? regardless of how many actually do it. Good luck with your attempt to get what you want by the way but I don't believe you have the slightest chance of achieving it.
In order to do so you will have to convince the UK Govt to convince the EU that musicians are a special group of worker who should have privileged access over all other groups of workers. You aren't convincing me so I can't imagine that anyone in Brussels is going to buy it either.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
bring back pianos in pubs. the professionalisation of music has taken music away from working class people.
klang
klang
you'd have to bring back pubs first
discokermit
Well-Known Member
they started shutting when they got rid of the pianos.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
Roger Daltreys pigeons coming home to roost
sort of - the issue is that for the eu band, they do it once and they can come to the uk and play in London Leeds Manchester and Newcastle.
for a uk band touring Europe - they have to do it per country.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
that's ok, boris johnson's working his hardest to ensure that a separate visa will be needed for scotland and perhaps wales too, while the six counties will doubtless be reintegrated into their southern neighbour
The lack of live music in pubs is more to do with the cheapness of recorded music and a gradual erosion of the power of the musicians Union over the last half century than the professionalisation of music - there was far, far more people making livings as musicians in the years of pianos in pubs.
editor
hiraethified
Yes, you've made your opinion on the value and importance of arts and culture very clear indeed.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Brexit barbarians...
editor
hiraethified
Do you think only 'professional' sounding bands play in pubs then?
The reality is that with pubs closing at a horrendous rate ore turning into upmarket gastro pubs, there's fewer places to play and for the ones that do want to attract a lively crowd, a DJ is way more cost effective (sadly).
editor
hiraethified
Snappy.
But what's your opinion as a Brexit fan? Are musicians fair game to be thrown under the bus as collateral damage for the supposedly wonderful gains of Brexit?
It clearly is a very large percentage. It’s a very tiny majority, but you don’t even need to be a majority to count as a large percentage. If 30% of the population want something, I’d still say that’s a large percentage that want it.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
hmmm, I would agree with others that a large percentage would be 2/3 66%+
discokermit
Well-Known Member
the more of you under the bus, the more work for my mate bosha and his mobile disco.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
If you wanted to go and live and work in Germany then I can't see you should have priority over anyone else.
For touring though the current arrangements seem shit. I expect a deal allowing you to tour will come in before the covid emergency has finished.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
i played a gig in france, the audience pretended not to understand the lyrics and kept shrugging so i played it again, a lot slower and louder. did the trick.
editor
hiraethified
Another music hater arrives, laughing at musicians losing their jobs.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and in kabbes' example of 30%, a large proportion, like 70%, don't want it.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
who makes the stuff that bosha plays? its only british musicians i dont like.Another music hater arrives, laughing at musicians losing their jobs.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Surely this is an example of how "free movement" is a propaganda term used for emotive purposes, rather than a piece of language used to help make things clearer? Like, is "travelling and performing throughout the EU for a period of less than 90 days without requiring a visa" freedom of movement? I reckon it's fair to say it is. And "the right to permanent residency in any EU member state with the same rights and entitlements as any regular citizen of that state" is also freedom of movement. But I'm not sure it makes sense to say "A very large percentage of the population wanted [the right to permanent residency and so on] ended, therefore [visa-free travel for a period of less than 90 days]" has to go.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
This issue isn't about visa free travel (which with one or two minor modifications we still have) it's about the right to work anywhere in the EU without being treated any different from being a citizen of the country you're in. That's what FOM is about not the right to sit on a beach for a couple of weeks. FoM is a redline to the EU and there is a limit to how much they will compromise on it. Sadly ending it was a redline for the UK Govt and they weren't keen on compromising either so here we are and a lot of people are unhappy about being caught in the middle of it.
The thing with the musicians passport idea which the Govt has today rejected outright is that the UK would be saying to the EU. "Allow some of our workers to be special". There is no fundamental reason why the EU can't grant an exemption of course except why should it? Reprocity isn't worth anything since we almost certainly send way more bands and music to them than they do to us so they will want something else instead. We refused to give them what they wanted and we're back where we started.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
I mean, obviously I'm not in charge of the EU negotiations, so wot I think doesn't have much relevance to anything really. I still think that if we're talking on the level of principles, it should hypothetically be possible to work out a deal where people would have the right to work elsewhere in the EU for a limited period of time, and I'm not sure that such a deal would in itself be betraying the democratic vote or whatever. Whether there's any chance of Johnson and co putting that into practice without completely fucking it up is another question of course.
Yeah this is my current thinking.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Absolutely correct. We could have worked out a deal where FoM could be kept for British citizens without us remaining in the EU,. Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland have FoM rights, however FoM cuts both ways. In order for UK citizens to have FoM in the EU, we would have to accept their citizens have the same rights here. Taking Back Control (God I hate that phrase) was all about restoring UK control over immigration policy and the Conservatives made that a central plank of their manifesto.
UK beneficiaries of FoM (including musicians) have essentially been thrown under the bus in order to secure the votes of those people who get upset because they hear people speaking Polish in the supermarket queues.
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