Brexit and musicians/performers and the touring industry: news, updates and experiences

[editor]

That twat Daltrey is still whining away:

Daltrey also complained about the difficulties currently facing musicians who wish to tour around Europe, as they face costly delays caused by red tape and the ongoing lorry queues at Dover.“They’re making life hard for us, I don’t disagree,” he said. “It doesn’t need to be. One truck goes into Europe full of equipment with a carnet, it’s not hard to get visas, is it? It shouldn’t be. We used to do it regularly in the Sixties and Seventies.”

He continued: “There’s no cooperation. They were always going to punish us; they’re determined to make it not work because they’re fearful of other countries leaving. Let’s see.”

Roger Daltrey ‘disappointed’ by lack of progress after Brexit

Musician complains of ‘useless regulation’ still in place and criticises EU for ‘punishing’ UK for leaving

www.independent.co.uk

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

He can go fuck himself quite frankly.

 

[rutabowa]

I'm not sure my band would qualify as a 'hobby band,' which is something I've never heard of before, tbh. What are his experiences of selling merch with these bands?

It is more what you say at customs, than a strictly defined category. Yes it might not apply to your band; I only said it could be claimed for every band I have been in.

I'm not answering questions on merch or tax or whatever sorry.

 

[editor]

It is more what you say at customs, than a strictly defined category. Yes it might not apply to your band; I only said it could be claimed for every band I have been in.

I'm not answering questions on merch or tax or whatever sorry.

Well could you at least ask your mate seeing as for many bands, selling merch is the only way tours don't become economically unviable.

 

[rutabowa]

Well could you at least ask your mate seeing as for many bands, selling merch is the only way tours don't become economically unviable.

Get advice from someone official, like the the link that bees posted in post 4 of this thread. What do you mean "I could at least ask my mate"? I don't owe anyone advice, I was just passing on his practical experience on certain aspects of touring from the UK to EU. Which once again is a thankless activity but there you go.

 

[editor]

Get advice from someone official, like the the link that bees posted in post 4 of this thread. What do you mean "I could at least ask my mate"? I don't owe anyone advice, I was just passing on his practical experience on certain aspects of touring from the UK to EU. Which once again is a thankless activity but there you go.

I've really no idea why you're being so antsy here. Oh well.

 

[Supine]

Some info from this guy might be of interest

 

[rutabowa]

Some info from this guy might be of interest

What does it say? Does it contradict what my guy told me?

 

[High Voltage]

What does it say? Does it contradict what my guy told me?

There's nothing new . . . I'm not involved in any way, shape or form with the business of touring and there's nothing more than I'm already aware of in my limited readings of this on going disaster / issue / problem / new reality

 

[rutabowa]

The thread appears to be talking about what regulations there are if you travel in a van bigger than a splitter van (which is a 9 seater van with a separate space in the back for gear etc... the standard transport for small bands). It is a bit strange that he doesn't say "...but if you are traveling in a splitter van or smaller, here are your options (and actually you dont need to pay for a carnet)".

I mean a lot of/most bands DO travel in splitter vans; they're not taking "lights, video equipment" etc, like that guy is talking about.

 

[editor]

Very informative Twitter thread here

Screengrab below

 

[TopCat]

Here is a really interest and useful recent blog of a small band touring in the EU. It references carnets and merchandise and much more. Very informative.

Tour Manager Kirsten Burrows summarises "And Also The trees" recent mi

Following on from the recent webinar with Beak discussing their EU tour and experiences with carnets, Kirsten Burrows who is the Tour Manager for 'And Also The Trees' contacted Carry On Touring to see if we would be interested in hearing about their recent mini tour in the EU. Absolutely, any...

www.carryontouring.uk

 

[Pickman's model]

Here is a really interest and useful recent blog of a small band touring in the EU. It references carnets and merchandise and much more. Very informative.

Tour Manager Kirsten Burrows summarises "And Also The trees" recent mi

Following on from the recent webinar with Beak discussing their EU tour and experiences with carnets, Kirsten Burrows who is the Tour Manager for 'And Also The Trees' contacted Carry On Touring to see if we would be interested in hearing about their recent mini tour in the EU. Absolutely, any...

www.carryontouring.uk

touring? the european union? and they said it couldn't be done

 

[editor]

Here is a really interest and useful recent blog of a small band touring in the EU. It references carnets and merchandise and much more. Very informative.

Tour Manager Kirsten Burrows summarises "And Also The trees" recent mi

Following on from the recent webinar with Beak discussing their EU tour and experiences with carnets, Kirsten Burrows who is the Tour Manager for 'And Also The Trees' contacted Carry On Touring to see if we would be interested in hearing about their recent mini tour in the EU. Absolutely, any...

www.carryontouring.uk

So loads of additional, time-consuming form filling, rubber stamping, spreadsheets, extra costs and a lingering uncertainty created by different interpretations of the rules. It's really not encouraging.

 

[Pickman's model]

surprised no mention of this yet

Major boost for live music and touring industry specialist hauliers to move more freely between countries

Hauliers serving music concerts, sports and cultural events will be able to move their vehicles freely between Great Britain and the EU from late summer.

www.gov.uk

 

[rutabowa]

I still haven't heard any reports of using the free Duplicate List, as opposed to a paid-for carnet, going wrong, for splitter van and smaller size band travel (which that haulage thing dont apply to either anyway).... still based on v limited data though.

 

[editor]

I still haven't heard any reports of using the free Duplicate List, as opposed to a paid-for carnet, going wrong, for splitter van and smaller size band travel (which that haulage thing dont apply to either anyway).... still based on v limited data though.

I literally don't know any small bands who are even bothering to try and play Europe right now, and until the merch issue is resolved, it's a total non starter for many.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

surprised no mention of this yet
View attachment 321442

Major boost for live music and touring industry specialist hauliers to move more freely between countries

Hauliers serving music concerts, sports and cultural events will be able to move their vehicles freely between Great Britain and the EU from late summer.

www.gov.uk

Devil is in the detail - from a (admittedly brief) chat with someone at FlyByNite, it sounds like while it’s helps the larger companies who have bases in both the UK and Europe, smaller ones based solely in the UK are still fucked.

 

[editor]

Looks like UK buskers are screwed in Europe too now

 

[TopCat]

The plight of touring buskers eh

 

[editor]

The plight of touring buskers eh

Yes, you've already made it clear you don't give a flying fuck about grassroots musicians and small bands struggling to make a living.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

The plight of touring buskers eh

Ah, that Brexit attitude in a nutshell.

 

[TopCat]

Ah, that Brexit attitude in a nutshell.

Well free movement has ended as we left the EU. Buskers, bricklayers, all need a visa to work. This is not news.

 

[editor]

Well free movement has ended as we left the EU. Buskers, bricklayers, all need a visa to work. This is not news.

Except you seem to positively revel in their plight. It's really not a good look.

 

[Supine]

Well free movement has ended as we left the EU. Buskers, bricklayers, all need a visa to work. This is not news.

This is a thread for news, updates and experiences. Your don’t give a shit attitude to other peoples work isn’t threadworthy.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Well free movement has ended as we left the EU. Buskers, bricklayers, all need a visa to work. This is not news.

And isn’t that great! Freedom from all that pesky EU red tape Now we can enjoy the benefits of some nice patriotic red, white and blue tape. Lots of it! God bless the queen

 

[editor]

Here's some first hand testimony from someone who knows all about touring:

Touring isn’t free – in fact it’s hugely expensive. With 12 people being paid full time, a bus and trailer, fuel (fuel!) costs, hotels, PDs, food, taxes, carnets and the like, it used to cost me a comfortable five figures a day to be on the road – show days and days off the same. Now, with extra Brexit bullshit and soaring gas prices, it costs more.


We were heading home, instead of heading to Austria. For those who missed the announcement a week ago, we have had to pull the Austrian shows on this tour (and thus also Nuremberg), and that’s what this post is about. I wanted to start by emphasising that the mood on a bus when you’re in for the long drive home without having finished what you started is funereal black. My band and crew and I take a huge amount of pride in our work, and letting people down is the very last thing we ever want to do.

So let me explain the reasons. I think the initial announcement wasn’t clear enough about this, for which I apologise, but after a fair few hostile comments on the subject, I wanted to state my case and try to help people understand what’s going on, not just for me, but for the live music industry in general.

Someone somewhere snarked that the cancellations showed I was “all about the money” – and that is true, to the same extent that paying rent, paying bills, eating food is “all about the money”. Touring isn’t free – in fact it’s hugely expensive. With 12 people being paid full time, a bus and trailer, fuel (fuel!) costs, hotels, PDs, food, taxes, carnets and the like, it used to cost me a comfortable five figures a day to be on the road – show days and days off the same. Now, with extra Brexit bullshit and soaring gas prices, it costs more.

Entschuldigung Sie Bitte | Frank Turner

Let me paint you a picture. Last Friday night, loading up the bus and trailer after the show in Milan.

frank-turner.com

 

[Pickman's model]

Here's some first hand testimony from someone who knows all about touring:

Entschuldigung Sie Bitte | Frank Turner

Let me paint you a picture. Last Friday night, loading up the bus and trailer after the show in Milan.

frank-turner.com

an auld etonian and graduate of lse i note and i don't suppose small bands get more grassroots than that

 

[editor]

an auld etonian and graduate of lse i note and i don't suppose they get more grassroots than that

In your quest to make another pointless, smartarse comment you seem to be getting your posts mixed up.

But no matter. Back on ignore you go, so no need to respond.

 

[editor]

Here's another interesting article summing up the continuing problems Brexit is causing performers at all levels:

Composer and broadcaster Howard Goodall summarised the issues being met by saying: “The barriers are multiple – visas, haulage and cabotage restrictions, carnets for equipment and instruments, VAT declarations in and out, special certificates for rare or animal-based materials, proof of contracts, health, repatriation and vehicle insurance, and so on”. Sir Elton John, more concisely, warned of a “looming catastrophe” for touring musicians.

They continued to explain that “post-Brexit all acts heading into Europe to perform need to have a carnet documenting every single piece of equipment they are travelling with”. This includes that item’s serial number and value. Previously, ATA Carnets, also known as passports for goods, were not required. Nor was insurance, visas and multiple equipment checks all of which equate to increased costs when touring.

“The ATA Carnet is an incredibly detailed and daunting piece of paperwork, not to mention expensive to tackle without professional assistance,” said the band. “However we travelled with all documentation in order, and the trucking company allowed twice the usual amount of time for the driver to clear customs and get to Paris.” Essentially, the band ‘did everything right’. Nonetheless, they still found themselves in France without their equipment until over 30 hours later.

How Brexit stopped the music for White Lies

Last year, Sir Elton John warned of a “looming catastrophe” for touring British musicians after we left the EU. His prediction came true for one London band

www.theneweuropean.co.uk