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Brazil votes in far right fascist Jair Bolsonaro

Serge Forward said:
Anarchist communist to the bone, mate. Fuck this state capitalist bollocks.
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Whatever. Be nice if you could find a post where I've said I think Castro was a goodie.

I'm not going to go into what I think of Castro right now. I've posted at length about it in the past. Suffice to say that earlier in this thread I told AA that I could tell he had no direct experience of living in a totalitarian regime in which you have to guard your words both in public and in private. I do because I lived in Cuba.

Don't fucking lecture me about Castro.
 
I'm well aware that the likes of Bolsonaro are dangerous scum, but at the same time I don't think people can afford to just settle for electoralism and politicians and I'm sick of people doing that and putting so much into that. We need to go beyond that and for me the party politics bullshit doesn't deal with the far right, if anything it fuels it and it gives power etc to the bourgeoisie. We need to focus on building a grass roots autonomous, truly anti-capitalist movement and proper resistance and solidarity, which is how we bring about real change and be truly effective and empower and strengthen the working class and the oppressed.
 
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Glad to see the true experts on Brazilian politics now dominating the thread. Imagine how tedious it would be if instead we had someone who’s probably never read a book just spamming anarchism.com boilerplate platitudes over and over and over again. Thank god we don’t have that. :thumbs:
 
AmateurAgitator said:
The reaction I've got from people on this thread has been nasty, hysterical bullshit just coz I have a different viewpoint and don't trust a politician. It started with one post of mine and I got piled on and couldn't possibly reply to it all and people got insulting. Its like you're just not allowed to criticise Lula at all or to say nothing accept to be ecastatic that he's now president of Brazil. You must think the same thoughts as them and feel the same way about it all. Its amazing I'm still posting anything on this thread.
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No one here trusts politicians. No one has said you can't criticise Lula. No one has said you must be ecstatic at his election - and only you have said he is president now, there's a wee while to go before he is that. No one has said 'you must agree with me / us'. It's amazing you didn't fit any more nonsense in your whiny post. It's nothing to do with you having a different viewpoint to the cunts collective.
 
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Oh and btw, yeah legally and technically Lula 'prevented' Cesare Batisti from being extradited but he also would not sign the extradition act which led to him being extradited.
 
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Pickman's model said:
No one here trusts politicians. No one has said you can't criticise Lula. No one has said you must be ecstatic at his election - and only you have said he is president now, there's a wee while to go before he is that. No one has said 'you must agree with me / us'. It's amazing you didn't fit any more nonsense in your whiny post. It's nothing to do with you having a different viewpoint to the cunts collective.
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Well I think my observation about some people on here is right though, too much focus on electoralism/party politics in general it seems and too much condemnation for having a different view. And I think the way I've been treated on here is pretty shit. Maybe there could be a focus on any grass roots movements in Brazil and elsewhere though?
 
AmateurAgitator said:
Well I think my observation about some people on here is right though, too much focus on electoralism/party politics in general it seems and too much condemnation for having a different view. And I think the way I've been treated on here is pretty shit. Maybe there could be a focus on any grass roots movements in Brazil and elsewhere though?
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go on then, start the thread
 
A bit surprising that there's a complaint of "too much focus on electoralism/party politics" when there was actually an election where the votes determine whether a fascist gets in or not.

And strange having to point out that governments ... enact laws ... that can increase repression and poverty and environmental destruction. Which is why I for one am interested in party politics over here, too.
 
two sheds said:
A bit surprising that there's a complaint of "too much focus on electoralism/party politics" when there was actually an election where the votes determine whether a fascist gets in or not.

And strange having to point out that governments ... enact laws ... that can increase repression and poverty and environmental destruction. Which is why I for one am interested in party politics over here, too.
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Yeah I don't think this stuff is so difficult. Liberal democracy, for want of a better term, has a long list of faults. But that does not mean that elections don't matter. They so obviously and clearly do matter. Even a cursory look at a comparison between what happened during Lula's first term and what has happened in the last four years will show that to anyone prepared to look.

It also seems odd to have to point this out, but organising at grass roots level and voting in elections are not mutually exclusive activities.
 
And I've not seen anyone arguing against grass roots movements. That's no reason not to vote though, when voting will make a huge difference to millions of peoples' lives. Like when AmateurAgitator says it's not really important whether Trump gets in or not next time. It's a bit fucking important to LGBT+ people and democrats and anyone who's not a fundamentalist Christian.
 
Yep. Because of Trump, the US now has an extreme r/w majority in the Supreme Court for the foreseeable future. Of course this stuff matters. However much you might oppose the state, you still have to live in, and under, it.

But AA romanticises violent anarchist groups from the 1970s. Yeah that worked.
 
Perfectly possible to build working class resistance based on both grassroots direct action and elections

Here's a bit of grassroots action in the midst of post election activity that we can all get behind. Corinthian ultras took the banners from far right Bolsonara supporters who asked for military intervention to stop Lula.

1667567414607.png

video of them after they turned up to oppose another demonstration by Bolsonara supporters with a banner 'we are for democracy'

 
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