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Brazil votes in far right fascist Jair Bolsonaro

Military in Brazil have form as do the police odd these supporters of Bolsonaro have been setting up camps outside miltary bases
and not getting moved on

Plenty of sections of the Military would welcome the prick back with open arms


also why the lack security around these site when they been talking about doing this for a few weeks
 
hmm sure no one saw this coming within the country at all

they have vendors turning up with food

did not even have that on jan6th
 
The army’s gone in and removed tents Bolsonaro bravely fleeing to Florida won’t have helped his image🤣
 
Ax^ said:
Military in Brazil have form as do the police odd these supporters of Bolsonaro have been setting up camps outside miltary bases
and not getting moved on

Plenty of sections of the Military would welcome the prick back with open arms


also why the lack security around these site when they been talking about doing this for a few weeks
Click to expand...
It's the military police who are key, but they're not military police as we have in the UK. It's a huge force - 400,000 - the equivalent of Spain's Guardia Civil, Italy's Carabinieri or France's Gendarmerie, and with a wide remit of duties wrt policing civilians. Wankers in uniform, basically, and widely hated. There was very strong support for Bolsonaro within their swollen ranks.
 
Pickman's model said:
i answered the point you made, not the point you think you made or the point you wanted to make. for someone who's not obsessed with being right it's really very strange you resurrected this exchange so long after it happened and after declaring that you'd put me on ignore. it must have been really eating at you.

i'm really surprised you don't think the 1m vote for the bnp was consequential. if nick griffin hadn't been such a venal shit and if their money man hadn't thrown his toys out the pram the bnp fortunes over the past decade might have been very different.
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What do you think about the Brexit angle? If I read you right, you're saying that had they not imploded due to an internal civil war, mainly over money, they would have gone from strength to strength.

I'm not so sure, because the tory right and Farage's lot knew that a Brexit referendum was on the horizon and both would have desperately needed the BNP out of the way. Griffin running around campaigning for Brexit, no doubt attracting publicity, would have been an unwelcome distraction to the pro-Brexit side.
 
StakerOne said:
What do you think about the Brexit angle? If I read you right, you're saying that had they not imploded due to an internal civil war, mainly over money, they would have gone from strength to strength.

I'm not so sure, because the tory right and Farage's lot knew that a Brexit referendum was on the horizon and both would have desperately needed the BNP out of the way. Griffin running around campaigning for Brexit, no doubt attracting publicity, would have been an unwelcome distraction to the pro-Brexit side.
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The bnp were got out of the way when their money man walked away and Griffin was expelled in 2014
 
Pickman's model said:
The bnp were got out of the way when their money man walked away and Griffin was expelled in 2014
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Griffin hasn't bothered to do anything at all since, so it's fair to assume that was the thing that finished him off. It could be argued that he himself was the architect of his own dowfall.

But I digress. We agree about that. My point is that they were doomed to a thrashing by two well funded sides in some kind of metophorical pincer movement, because by many Brexiteers, Griffin and the BNP would have been counter productive to the Brexit cause.

I attended a Vote Leave conference in the North West and by God we had problems with a small number of people (They weren't BNP).

Some bloke sat next to me stood up and said, "We're not focusing enough on immigration, in particular the Pakistani's. We have to tell them, the truth, the Pakistani's will rape our daughters!!!" - I could hear the whole room grown with someone behind us saying "Oh for fucks sake, here we go!"

Since I was sat next to him, I covered my hand on my face and absolutely melted into the chair with embarressment. A large bloke a few rows down just stood up and said "You seriously need to sit down and shut up, no one here is interested."

It turned well heated well quick, but the whole room turned on him and I certaintly had no choice but to, because I didn't want everyone thinking I was with that idiot!

The tory right (and ex tory right UKIPers) would have done everything in their books to finish the BNP long before a Brexit vote, that's for sure, because they all knew, that Griffin would have sucked in the media and made Brexit a toxic laughing stock that the likes of Johnson and Gove wouldn't have dare go anywhere near.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Bolsonaro has promised to return from the US. I'll believe that when I see it.
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His intenstines have gone on strike again, blocking the road much like his supporters.

news.sky.com

Jair Bolsonaro shares photo of himself in hospital after supporters storm Brazil's Congress

Brazil's former president was admitted to hospital in Orlando, Florida, with abdominal pain relating to a stab wound from 2018. He flew to the US days before his term in office ended - but now his ability to stay is in question.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It's the military police who are key, but they're not military police as we have in the UK. It's a huge force - 400,000 - the equivalent of Spain's Guardia Civil, Italy's Carabinieri or France's Gendarmerie, and with a wide remit of duties wrt policing civilians. Wankers in uniform, basically, and widely hated. There was very strong support for Bolsonaro within their swollen ranks.
Click to expand...
The Polícia Militar are a massive problem for politicians from all sides, they are hated by a massive majority of people in Brazil rich and poor. Not so much nowadays, but 7 to 10 years ago they literally got away with everything from highway robbery to murder for decades. The problem is no-one knows what to do with them. almost all politicians want rid of them but can't find a solution. They did try at one time to devide them up between the Polícia Federal, the State police forces, Polícia Civil and Guardas Municipais but none of those branches of police wanted them.

In recent years they haven't been able to get away with as much but still can't be trusted, one of the ways they are able to so easily get away with stealing and harassing people is because on some peoples ID cards it shows the job of a parent who is for example a Judge or Army officer, only people who have influence, so if they stop someone like that they normally just let them go as they know if they do something dodgy that person (or their parent) has some power and therefore recourse.

Let me give you a couple of examples going back about 10 years of the sort of things they would do. A friend of mine who owned and ran a bar was stopped at around 3 in the morning, he was drunk and driving, the Polícia Militar gave him 2 option's, be arrested or pay them two thousand reais, he paid up. Now lets look at what happened to a young guy 24 years old who's Dad was a Major in the military, he was pulled over and really drunk, once the police looked at his ID card and could see that his Dad was a Major, one of the police drove his car with him as a passenger back to his apartment and said "good night".

I used to have a young lad that I'd call up if I had some heavy work that needed to be done. He turned up at my place one day to tell me he had a new phone number. I asked him what had happened to his old phone. He told me he was parked in a quiet place with his girlfriend, they were smoking a little weed and doing what young people do who live with their parents and don't have money for a love motel. The Polícia Militar sneeked up on them and knocked on the window telling them to get out of the car, one officer took them over to the police car and the other searched their car. He stole both their mobile phones, the money from the girls handbag and the little bit of weed they had left. Believe it or not the young lad lad said he was luck they had two phones and some money in the car as if they hadn't found enough stuff to steal in the car they waould have arrested them. That's the Polícia Militar in Brazil.
 
Not had time to read it yet, but another fairly lengthy article from Crimethinc:
crimethinc.com

January 8, the Brazilian January 6

We compare and contrast the events of January 6, 2021 and January 8, 2023, when far-right supporters of former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro stormed government buildings in Brasília.
crimethinc.com crimethinc.com
 
Having now had a chance to properly read the article I posted above, it does have some useful info about how the various state forces have been responding:
The invaders benefitted from the tacit support of the Military Police of the Federal District, commanded by Governor Ibaneis Rocha; they experienced no opposition or police repression for at least three hours. Police permitted them to enter the buildings. Only at 6 pm did the police manage to take some initiative and surround the buildings. Several videos show police officers taking selfies and laughing as protesters invaded Congress; others show police officers fraternizing with the Bolsonaristas inside the invaded buildings.

Only after 8 pm did police including the National Force—who are usually so eager to attack teachers, students, and Indigenous peoples—manage to peacefully “contain” the protest, arresting about 200 people. In videos, we see the police removing Bolsonaristas peacefully, with no injuries or deaths, despite the Brazilian police being arguably the most lethal in the world.


This institutional reaction only began when Lula, who was in a city in the interior of São Paulo, issued a decree of Federal Intervention in Public Security of the Federal District, naming the Secretary of Public Security of the Ministry of Justice, Ricardo Cappelli, as intervenor until January 31, 2023. In practice, this means removing the government police from the case (the Military Police and Civil Police) and handing the case over to the federal government police (the National Security Force and Federal Police). In the evening of January 8, the Minister of Justice and Public Security made a statement saying that investigations had been opened, the financiers of the buses had been identified, and that around 200 people had been arrested.


The Minister of Justice, Flávio Dino, a former judge and former governor of the state of Maranhão, also spoke, making a measured speech in which he tried to safeguard the legitimacy of the institutions of government, depicting the participants in the pro-Bolsonaro demonstrations as isolated radicals who would be treated as criminals, thereby emptying the event of political content while describing it as an attempted coup d’état. The Minister of the Supreme Court, Alexandre de Moraes, who had been active throughout Bolsonaro’s administration as a “guardian of the democratic institutional order,” also ordered the removal of the governor of the Federal District, a well-known supporter of Bolsonarism...

The events in Brazil differ from the events in the United States in that the Bolsonarists cohered around something older than the Trump cult, something that is specific to Brazilian political history: nostalgia for the dictatorship that was installed by a civil-military coup with the assistance of the United States in 1964 and allegiance to all the aspects of the dictatorship that persist in Brazilian society.

In the formulation of the psychoanalyst Tales Ab’Sáber: “What remains of the dictatorship in Brazil? Everything, except the dictatorship.”

Unlike what happened in the United States after the election of Biden, the Brazilian Armed Forces—comprised of officers trained in military schools permeated by the anti-communist discourse of the Cold War context and by the historical revisionism that calls the military civil coup the “‘64 revolution”—are a fundamental part of the coup movements. Social and electoral Bolsonarism involves numerous reserve officers from the army, navy, and air force. Active-duty officers barely disguise their support for the pro-Bolsonaro protesters; since 2014, they have made public statements expressing opposition to leftist parties and candidates. The most obvious proof of the support of the Armed Forces for the coup movements is their tolerance of the camps outside their barracks, which would certainly not have been accepted if the content of the demonstrations had been different.

In hopes of brokering a rapprochement within the institutions, the coalition led by the institutional left that won the elections of October appointed José Múcio to the Ministry of Defense—a right-wing politician who is a friend of the military, whose party (the Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro) used the motto “God, Family, Homeland, and Liberty.” In his statement on the demonstrations, Lula admitted that the Minister of Defense had not acted to evict the occupations around the barracks.
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so if you start an insurrection after getting fired as a politician

Florida is the state to go to :cool:
 

Brazil Declares Emergency after Hundreds of Children from Native Yanomami Tribe Die; Lula Accuses Bolsonaro of Genocide​

Brazil’s ministry of health has declared a medical emergency in the Yanomami territory, the country’s largest indigenous reservation bordering Venezuela, following reports of children dying of malnutrition and other diseases caused by illegal gold mining. A decree published on Friday by the incoming government of President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said the aim of the declaration was to restore health services to the Yanomami people that had been dismantled by his far-right predecessor Jair Bolsonaro. In four years of Bolsonaro’s presidency, 570 Yanomami children died of curable diseases, mainly malnutrition but also malaria, diarrhea and malformations caused by mercury used by wildcat gold miners, the Amazon journalism platform Sumauma reported, citing data obtained by a FOIA.

Lula visited a Yanomami health center in Boa Vista in Roraima state on Saturday following the publication of photos showing children and elderly men and women so thin their ribs were visible. “More than a humanitarian crisis, what I saw in Roraima was genocide: a premeditated crime against the Yanomami, committed by a government insensitive to suffering," Lula said on Twitter. The government announced food packages that will be flown to the reservation where some 26,000 Yanomamis live in a region of rainforest and tropical savanna the size of Portugal.

The reservation has been invaded by illegal gold miners for decades, but the incursions multiplied since Bolsonaro won office in 2018 promising to allow mining on previously protected lands and offering to legalize wildcat mining. There are also signs that organized crime has become involved. In recent violent incidents, men on speed boats on the rivers have shot with automatic weapons at indigenous villages whose communities oppose the entry of gold miners. Some gold miners have begun to leave, fearing enforcement operations by the Lula government, and appear to be heading across the border into neighboring Guyana and Suriname, said Estevao Senra, a researcher at Instituto Socioambiental, an NGO that defends indigenous rights.

Lula said the new government will put an end to illegal gold mining as it moves to crack down on illegal deforestation in the Amazon, which surged to a 15-year high under Bolsonaro. “We must hold the previous government accountable for allowing this situation to get worse to the point where we find adults weighing like children, and children reduced to skin and bones," said Sonia Guajajara, the first indigenous woman to be a cabinet minister, heading a new Ministry of Indigenous Affairs.
 

Brazil's Bolsonaro seeks 6-month visa to stay in US​

Former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro is seeking a six-month tourist visa to remain in the United States, his lawyer said on Monday. Bolsonaro is under investigation in Brazil for his supporters' storming of government.

How long has Bolsonaro been in Florida for?
The former Brazilian head of state flew to Florida in late December towards the end of his term, avoiding the inauguration of his successor, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. Bolsonaro's current visa, which is offered to visiting world leaders, is set to expire on Tuesday as the former statesman is no longer in the US on official business. California-based law firm AG Immigration Group said that Bolsonaro had requested a six-month visa. "We look forward to achieving the highest level of satisfaction and desired results for our client," its lawyers said. Bolsonaro told the CNN Brasil broadcaster that he had planned to return by the end of January, but was considering extending his stay for health reasons. Brazil's former president was injured in a knife attack in 2018 and has suffered ongoing health complications from the incident, receiving hospital care in the US.

Investigations into Brazil's former president
Brazil's new government has ordered a probe of Bolsonaro over a riot on January 8 in Brasilia when supporters stormed government buildings, refusing to accept Lula's electoral victory. Bolsonaro himself had cast doubt on Brazil's electronic voting system prior to the vote. But after the results he did not allege electoral fraud or directly call for protests, and he urged for those that did demonstrate to do so peacefully.

However, the former president did not concede defeat to Lula or attend his successor's inauguration either. Former Justice Minister Anderson Torres was also in the US during the riot and was arrested upon his return to Brazil. A group of 46 lawmakers from US President Joe Biden's Democratic Party have called for Bolsonaro to be sent back to Brazil. "The United States must not provide shelter for him, or any authoritarian who has inspired such violence against democratic institutions," the lawmakers said in a letter. Brazil's riot mirrored the 2021 storming of the US Capitol by supporters of former President Donald Trump who did not accept Biden's victory in the election.

[What is going on with the rioters' at the moment? As far as I can tell from local news. It seems that the vast majority of people who attended Brasilia on January 8th were bussed-in and many were paid to attend. Reports are coming from people who were arrested claiming they were paid to attend and they don't know who paid for the buses. While many people will claim "oh this is just their excuse", this is in fact very common here in Brazil. The money people who are behind Bolsonaro would not attend, they wouldn't be seen dead sitting on a bus for hours and mixing with "poor people". What will be interesting to find out is who paid these people and who paid for their buses. This information will come out and these people will be held to account at some point. To what extent they will be held to account will also be interesting, as here money still talks in the legal system, money is real power here, but they are not just dealing with local justice where you just pay the local judge or local prosecutor, they will be facing the full force of the government, so people are hoping that those really responsible will be found.

Can Bolsonaro hide out in the USA? I'm not sure he can. Brazil has an extradition treaty with the USA and it seems to work, well for sure I know it works one way as I have over the years visited many Americans citizens (and British subjects) in prison awaiting extradition. I don't think Bolsonaro has the political support in the USA so he will, I believe, have to find a safe haven somewhere else. The amount of money he and his family stole from the Brazilian people is starting to come to light. Many of his supporters are beginning to realise that he may be a lost cause, so now they are starting to back his 3rd wife Michelle Bolsonaro a real god botherer and very popular with the Evangelicals, to stand in the next presidential election.]
 
there are rumours he's trying to obtain an Italian passport on the basis of ancestry...maybe the US tourist visa is just to buy time.
 
Maybe permanent exile for Bolsonaro might be the best thing for Brazil? Threat of prosecution should he ever return but not necessarily an active attempt to bring him back? Exile is a form of humiliation after all, and it's hard to see him building any kind of coherent movement from abroad.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Maybe permanent exile for Bolsonaro might be the best thing for Brazil? Threat of prosecution should he ever return but not necessarily an active attempt to bring him back? Exile is a form of humiliation after all, and it's hard to see him building any kind of coherent movement from abroad.
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I think it would be best, yes. Better if his kids joined him.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Maybe permanent exile for Bolsonaro might be the best thing for Brazil? Threat of prosecution should he ever return but not necessarily an active attempt to bring him back? Exile is a form of humiliation after all, and it's hard to see him building any kind of coherent movement from abroad.
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He might team up with various Bannonite disciples and work with them to build pan-American nationalist far right movements, if not already onboard.
 
pseudonarcissus said:
there are rumours he's trying to obtain an Italian passport on the basis of ancestry...maybe the US tourist visa is just to buy time.
Click to expand...
This rumour has been doing the rounds for a while in the Brazilian press but the Italian government have said it isn't true. Two of Bolsonaro's four sons, Edoardo and Flavio, had requested citizenship in 2020. Their request is still being processed (apparently). Italy's consulates in Brazil had been inundated with applications, meaning it would likely take years before hopefuls received an Italian passport. I'm sure I've read it takes on average 10-15 years for people to receive citizenship via ancestral ties (but I'm sure the more money you have the less time it takes).
 
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