Boris's ban on alcohol on London Transport (with poll)

[littlebabyjesus]

No, I don't drink, and proud of the fact.

I don't eat turnips. I glow with satisfaction at the end of each day that I manage to live out without eating any turnips.

 

[ymu]

Can you start a new thread for this one, please? I wouldn't want to derail this one.

Genius!

 

[Poi E]

Don't be ridiculous.

Although in one sense, it's worse. Most of us are never troubled by murder, whereas we are constantly subjected to the selfish habits of gangs of pre-drinkers, scowling hooders and the tinnitus timpani.

It's time to improve the quality of life of everyone rather than just concentrating on the worst crimes.

You are quite mad. Or a very clever troll. Or pbman with a dictionary.

 

[untethered]

Clearing the streets of noisy, polluting, dangerous cars would immeasurably improve the quality of life in neighbourhoods, as would bringing in a more equitable distribution of wealth and more opportunities for the under privileged.

I entirely agree with your point about cars and you'll be pleased to know that I'm very active in promoting alternative and sustainable transport, as well as improving urban design, etc.

Redistribution of wealth is somewhat more tricky but the things I describe do bring greater opportunities to disadvantaged people and produce tangible improvements to their quality of life.

Are you doing anything about these issues, or is it just the thought of someone quietly and harmlessly enjoying a drink on the tube that bothers you so?

Yes, I am. No, it's not.

 

[8ball]

Can I be the first to draw a comparison between a sneaky can of ale on the tube and the Holocaust?

Can I?

 

[Crispy]

Can I be the first to draw a comparison between a sneaky can of ale on the tube and the Holocaust?

Can I?

I want to see if you can do it!

 

[ymu]

People murder people, too.

Should society have an opinion on the matter, and if it's a bad thing, seek to curtail it?

Of course. The response does have to be proportionate though. I think we should go to great lengths to prevent murder because every single incident has very serious consequences for many many people - the victim(s), the victim(s) family, the perpetrator, the perpetrator(s) family, the witnesses, and society as a whole if it's not dealt with.

You're not going to be able to ban pre-drinking without banning people from drinking in their own homes. Which seems rather disproportionate and very difficult, and expensive, to police. It wouldn't get Boris re-elected either.

 

[8ball]

Drinking on the tube is like making love to a beautiful woman . . .

 

[ymu]

I want to see if you can do it!

First they came for the drinkers ...

Not difficult - Untethered's already predicted it and AJ is hoping for it.

 

[Brainaddict]

You are quite mad. Or a very clever troll. Or pbman with a dictionary.

He is the most successful troll on here at the moment. I think he believes some of what he says but imo the rest of it he just says to wind up us commie types.

 

[Fruitloop]

I want to see if you can do it!

Maybe there's room in the market for an urban75 board game, where players get points for the most fanciful connections between mildy anti-social or puritan-offending behaviour and heinous crimes against humanity;

public drinking is like genocide because...

spliff smoking is worse than child rape because....

 

[Poi E]

He is the most successful troll on here at the moment. I think he believes some of what he says but imo the rest of it he just says to wind up us commie types.

Yes. I feel quite silly now.

 

[untethered]

Of course. The response does have to be proportionate though. I think we should go to great lengths to prevent murder because every single incident has very serious consequences for many many people - the victim(s), the victim(s) family, the perpetrator, the perpetrator(s) family, the witnesses, and society as a whole if it's not dealt with.

Very true.

The difference between murder and Tube drinking is that the problems caused by the latter are cumulative across a set of incidents rather than discrete and specific to each one.

But they're still problems.

You're not going to be able to ban pre-drinking without banning people from drinking in their own homes. Which seems rather disproportionate and very difficult, and expensive, to police. It wouldn't get Boris re-elected either.

As much as I deplore the culture that leads to "pre-drinking", neither I nor Mr Johnson are proposing to curtail it with this measure.

 

[Poi E]

public drinking is like genocide because...
.

I'll start. Because the interahamwe were drinking in public when they chopped up Tutsis.

 

[8ball]

I'll start. Because the interahamwe were drinking in public when they chopped up Tutsis.

Good one.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can I be the first to draw a comparison between a sneaky can of ale on the tube and the Holocaust?

Can I?

It's precisely the jobsworth "obey authority at all costs, don't question the rules" attitude that will see this stupid law enforced that made Auschwitz possible.

 

[untethered]

I'll start. Because the interahamwe were drinking in public when they chopped up Tutsis.

That's not quite right.

They started pre-drinking to give themselves post-colonial Dutch courage for the evil deed.

Then they boarded the Kigali Metro en masse on their way to the killing fields.

Had a proposed drinking ban been in place on the Metro the mob would have been sufficiently sobered up by the time they reached their destination that they would not have been adequately disinhibited to start the butchery.

But no. "Liberal" voices prevailed. The drinking ban was scotched and the rest, as they say, is history.

Now, back to the topic.

 

[Fruitloop]

Once the hangover kicked in it would only have made them grumpier.

 

[Poi E]

But no. "Liberal" voices prevailed. .

unfortunately they didn't. Conservative, non-interventionist opinion held sway and left them to their fate.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's the Margaret Thatcher version of conservatism. Leave people's economic fate in the hands of the free market while intervening to control standards of private morality.

 

[untethered]

It's the Margaret Thatcher version of conservatism. Leave people's economic fate in the hands of the free market while intervening to control standards of private morality.

What has drinking on the Tube got to do with private morality?

 

[Fruitloop]

Because my drinking is not a matter for your concern.

 

[ajdown]

Because my drinking is not a matter for your concern.

In your own home or in designated areas such as pubs/bars, you are absolutely correct.

However, when out in public, it no longer becomes just 'your' issue.

 

[Fruitloop]

So you say, but you have yet to offer any compelling evidence why this should be so.

 

[ajdown]

So you say, but you have yet to offer any compelling evidence why this should be so.

Some people consider talking loudly on a mobile phone on a bus/tube to be annoying and antisocial, others (especially those that do it) don't care.

Some people consider eating smelly food on a bus/tube to be annoying and antisocial, others (especially those that do it) don't care.

Some people consider reading big newspapers on a bus/tube to be annoying and antisocial, others (especially those that do it) don't care.

Some people consider playing music out loud on a bus/tube to be annoying and antisocial, others (especially those that do it) don't care.

Some people consider taking up more than one seat with bags etc on a bus/tube to be annoying and antisocial, others (especially those that do it) don't care.

Some people consider dropping litter on a bus/tube to be annoying and antisocial, others (especially those that do it) don't care.

Some people consider drinking alcohol on a bus/tube to be annoying and antisocial, others (especially those that do it) don't care.

What makes you choose some things to be acceptable, and others not to be? The most compelling facts, figures, statistics, whatever in the world probably wouldn't make you change your mind if you really cannot see how something might affect or upset other people.

 

[tom_craggs]

To be honest I rarely see people drinking on the buses or tubes and have never seen trouble resulting from it when I have.

As has been said, get rid of the KFC - that would make me happier!

Who is supposed to police this anyway?

Nonsense resolution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[8ball]

If only I could be arsed to post a facepalm image . . .

 

[Crispy]

need a facepalm smiley maybe?

 

[DotCommunist]

there is no superior facepalm to the Jean-Luc one

 

[8ball]

need a facepalm smiley maybe?

I was trying to get it put in last time we went for if you remember.