Boris's ban on alcohol on London Transport (with poll)

[ajdown]

You have an annual travel card but you don't use it daily..? That makes zero sense. Also zero sense to have a paper Annual Travelcard...

You asked when I was last on the tube.

My normal - and more convenient - commute to work is on the bus, either two or three in each direction whichever happens to come along first.

The travelcard is part of my work 'benefits' so there is no real cost to me, it's just taxable - which works out cheaper for me than having to buy the thing individually.

 

[Crispy]

There's been far more cases of drink-related problems on flights.

Really? Figures please.

 

[jæd]

What a load of deeply patronising bullshit. Who made you spokesperson for the city?

We've had Brian posting here, I don't think it would be too much to think that untethered is Boris' login...

 

[untethered]

If it's real and worthy of new laws, show us your evidence.

Your premise is wrong. You don't need "evidence" to implement what is really a minor rule about a small aspect of behaviour.

What kind of evidence would satisfy you? A survey, perhaps? An overblown academic study into the aversive effect of tube drinking on other passengers?

Mr Johnson says it's not a nice thing to do and that's good enough for me. I'm sure the measure will be widely welcomed by Londoners, apart from the small minority of hardcore drink-to-be-drunkards and loony libertarians.

What a load of deeply patronising bulls-. Who made you spokesperson for the city?

The same person as made you one.

There's been far more cases of drink-related problems on flights. Do you want that banned too?

Yes, although I'd question whether there have been more cases of problems on flights. We hear about the dramatic cases but not about the minor incivilities that make others' lives just that little bit worse. It's problems at that level that this kind of measure is designed to tackle.

So what are you proposing? Breathalysers at the barriers? Bag checks to make sure they're not carrying any more booze? And who's going to enforce this ban and attempt to physically eject drunk people off the station? The Beer Police?

Oh, you're really so funny!

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Still no word from the Mayor's office as to whether I'll be able to continue to enjoy my post-work Shandy Bass or Posh Ginger Beer on the tube.

The people need to know.

 

[jæd]

You asked when I was last on the tube.

My normal - and more convenient - commute to work is on the bus, either two or three in each direction whichever happens to come along first.

So if your normal commute is by bus, then why lecture us on drinking on the Tube. You're not exactly a heavy user, unlike some here or spend a good chunk of time Underground...

 

[Crispy]

So if your normal commute is by bus, then why lecture us on drinking on the Tube. You're not exactly a heavy user, unlike some here or spend a good chunk of time Underground...

The ban applies to buses too.

 

[DotCommunist]

So if your normal commute is by bus, then why lecture us on drinking on the Tube. You're not exactly a heavy user, unlike some here or spend a good chunk of time Underground...

AJ has an irrational fear and revulsion of alcohol, thats why.

 

[ajdown]

So if your normal commute is by bus, then why lecture us on drinking on the Tube. You're not exactly a heavy user, unlike some here or spend a good chunk of time Underground...

As already replied by Crispy, the ban is transport wide.

At least on a bus if someone is getting out of control, it is much easier to move to a position of safety and get off at the next stop - whereas on a tube you don't have access to the driver and there might be much longer between stops. Even if you pull the emergency cord, the train usually continues to the next station which may be several minutes before help is available.

Also, have you considered that the reason I take the bus instead of the tube is not just because of the extreme heat down there (another factor combined with alcohol makes a potentially dangerous situation worse) is because of the antisocial behaviour that you can experience down there?

The reason most people drive in London is not because it is more convenient, or cheaper, certainly not quicker in many cases - but because they don't have to be bothered about antisocial behavour, of which drinking alcohol on public transport is just one of many potential antisocial activities that you might encounter on the tube.

I would have thought that all the environmentalists here would be supporting a measure like the alcohol ban as part of encouraging people to leave their cars at home and use public transport instead.

 

[editor]

What kind of evidence would satisfy you? A survey, perhaps? An overblown academic study into the aversive effect of tube drinking on other passengers?

A passenger survey showing the actual need for this new law backed up by police arrest figures would be a good start,.

You may currently be enjoying having an autocratic major making up laws on his personal whims, but who knows - something you like doing might be next on his ban list.

Yes, although I'd question whether there have been more cases of problems on flights. We hear about the dramatic cases but not about the minor incivilities that make others' lives just that little bit worse.

So are you for a ban on planes or not?

 

[editor]

At least on a bus if someone is getting out of control, it is much easier to move to a position of safety and get off at the next stop - whereas on a tube you don't have access to the driver and there might be much longer between stops. Even if you pull the emergency cord, the train usually continues to the next station which may be several minutes before help is available.

Could you list the times you have personally suffered anti-social behaviour at the hands of people holding cans in their hands on the tube please?

 

[London_Calling]

Is the existing law re 'drunk and disorderly' inadequate somehow?

 

[editor]

Really? Figures please.

There's ample evidence of major problems caused by people drinking on planes. Can you find anything similar for tube drinkers?

Besides the point is consistency here. If it's unacceptable behaviour on tubes then it must be equally unacceptable on planes.

 

[tommers]

39 pages?!?

shows the depth of peoples' addiction I suppose.

 

[scifisam]

No,they'll probably sit around at home drinking, then head out. The only difference is, they won't still be drinking on the Tube.

I think that's what those against the tube drinking ban have been saying too. People will drink more at home, thus be drunker once they get on the tube. The amount they can currently drink on a short tube ride isn't going to get them drunk or make them significantly drunker than they were before.

The physical act of holding a can of lager to your mouth and drinking is not doing anyone any harm. Nobody's yet proven that it will - so it seems pointless using money and resources on it.

BTW, this new rule hasn't been brought in because a minority of people drink on the tube and then misbehave badly, it's been brought in because our new Mayor wants to look tough and please a certain section of the population. Which is pretty much what all new political leaders do when they first take up office.

 

[ajdown]

AJ has an irrational fear and revulsion of alcohol, thats why.

It's only irrational to you.

Having seen the damage that alcohol abuse has done to several close family members, as a child it completely put me off "following the normal path" in life of just picking up drinking and smoking because they're 'cool and rebellious' things to do.

I'm sorry if you see my viewpoint as a problem, but do remember I'm not advocating a total ban worldwide on alcohol ... just when travelling on public transport and being considerate to others... not just those like me, but how about people who are trying to recover from alcohol-based problems and know all it takes is one more can to get back on their problem (trying to avoid the temptation caused by smelling someone else's brew), but parents with children travelling, and of course the image that it gives to tourists.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

The reason most people drive in London is not because it is more convenient, or cheaper, certainly not quicker in many cases - but because they don't have to be bothered about antisocial behavour, of which drinking alcohol on public transport is just one of many potential antisocial activities that you might encounter on the tube.

So people get into an enormous, selfish, pollution machine, that chokes up the lungs of the people of London, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and causes Christ knows how many accidents and fatalities, because they're annoyed by the antisocial behavior of others?

I'm sure I don't need to point out the hypocrisy here.

 

[ajdown]

Could you list the times you have personally suffered anti-social behaviour at the hands of people holding cans in their hands on the tube please?

No, because a) I don't record all this information, and b) it would give you patterns of my journeying which I don't feel is sensible to give out on a public forum.

It's not just me that's supporting this ban, so why pick on me? Besides, what difference would it make if I listed 5, 50 or 500 occasions where I have been personally affected? It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to your views on the matter.

 

[scifisam]

Is the existing law re 'drunk and disorderly' inadequate somehow?

Yep. It doesn't make Boris look tough.

@tommers - you must know it's not about addiction, yeah? Though I guess you didn't actually bother to read the thread before calling people alcoholics.

 

[Dravinian]

I voted for the ban 100%.

I couldn't give a toss about drinking on the tube, but I do care that now he has come out with this, he has got to enforce it somehow, or he will look like a complete twat.

The enforcement of any rule on the underground, is going to make it safer, as it means staff will have to be actively involved with passengers, to make sure they don't have open drinks and intervening if they do. This involves a presence and can only help in passenger safety.

 

[scifisam]

No, because a) I don't record all this information, and b) it would give you patterns of my journeying which I don't feel is sensible to give out on a public forum.

It's not just me that's supporting this ban, so why pick on me? Besides, what difference would it make if I listed 5, 50 or 500 occasions where I have been personally affected? It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to your views on the matter.

I'd be astonished if you could even think of five occasions where you've been bothered by people holding a can of drink. And I mean bothered by them actually doing something, not by them just drinking. So those occasions wouldn't exactly give us any idea about your regular journeys - you make it sound as though your daily commute is plagued by hordes of rowdy lager-swillers.

 

[Crispy]

There's ample evidence of major problems caused by people drinking on planes. Can you find anything similar for tube drinkers?

I'm sure TFL have statistics for reported drunkness incidents. You brought up the plane thing so it's your responsibility to prove it.

Figures please. Yes/No?

 

[ajdown]

So people get into an enormous, selfish, pollution machine, that chokes up the lungs of the people of London, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and causes Christ knows how many accidents and fatalities, because they're annoyed by the antisocial behavior of others?

I'm sure I don't need to point out the hypocrisy here.

No, you don't ... but then again, why are so many people defending a 'right' they thought they had, when they don't drink on the tube themselves?

Let me guess... you're one of these people who think we should all ride bicycles everywhere?

 

[editor]

It's not just me that's supporting this ban, so why pick on me?

You're supporting it so let's see what your real-world basis for the ban is. If it's just a reflection of your bigotry and intolerance unsupported by facts, just say so.

I couldn't give a toss about drinking on the tube, but I do care that now he has come out with this, he has got to enforce it somehow, or he will look like a complete twat.

And that's a bad thing?

 

[scifisam]

I voted for the ban 100%.

I couldn't give a toss about drinking on the tube, but I do care that now he has come out with this, he has got to enforce it somehow, or he will look like a complete twat.

The enforcement of any rule on the underground, is going to make it safer, as it means staff will have to be actively involved with passengers, to make sure they don't have open drinks and intervening if they do. This involves a presence and can only help in passenger safety.

The staff are a bit pissed off about having an extra duty thrust on them with no consultation, though - which is understandable. They have better things to do than fine people for holding cans of beer. If they have to get on tube trains to check for drinkesrs, then they won't be on the platforms, unless TFL pays for an awful lot more staff, of course.

 

[scifisam]

I'm sure TFL have statistics for reported drunkness incidents. You brought up the plane thing so it's your responsibility to prove it.

Figures please. Yes/No?

TFL won't have stats for problems caused by people drinking on the tube, though.

@ajdown - a right 'they thought they had'? No, a right they did have, and still do at the moment.

 

[ajdown]

I'd be astonished if you could even think of five occasions where you've been bothered by people holding a can of drink. And I mean bothered by them actually doing something, not by them just drinking. So those occasions wouldn't exactly give us any idea about your regular journeys - you make it sound as though your daily commute is plagued by hordes of rowdy lager-swillers.

If "drinking alcohol" bothers me, then it bothers me, they don't have to be drunk and yelling abuse at me for it to be considered a problem by me. We all have our own standards and tolerances.

By the way, the vote is 62 totally against, v 61 for it or not totally against at the moment. Quite balanced considering.

 

[untethered]

There's ample evidence of major problems caused by people drinking on planes. Can you find anything similar for tube drinkers?

You seem to have missed the point by a mile.

This isn't about major problems, which are as many people have already pointed out, already prohibited.

This is about the minor problems. The small incivilities. The inconsideration for others. The unwelcome, discourteous, sub-criminal undesirable behaviour.

Besides the point is consistency here. If it's unacceptable behaviour on tubes then it must be equally unacceptable on planes.

Of course. Because all contexts are exactly alike and therefore must be regulated by the same rules.

If it's wrong to stand naked in the street, it must be wrong to stand naked in the shower.

Ban all nudity! Up with consistent rules!

 

[editor]

I'm sure TFL have statistics for reported drunkness incidents. You brought up the plane thing so it's your responsibility to prove it.

Figures please. Yes/No?

It would be a fruitless exercise as I doubt very much that LT reports are going to state whether they were drinking at the time or already drunk - something that's a little less incontrovertible on a plane journey where the person has been served drinks at his seat for several hours.

And - again - the real point here is consistency. If untethered is against drinking on the tube, then I'd like to hear why he thinks it's OK on planes where there are many documented instances of major problems being caused through in flight drinking.

 

[DotCommunist]

It's only irrational to you.

Having seen the damage that alcohol abuse has done to several close family members, as a child it completely put me off "following the normal path" in life of just picking up drinking and smoking because they're 'cool and rebellious' things to do.

so what you sdaw as a child prevented you from developing a sensible attitude towards alcohol. Bad luck


I

'm sorry if you see my viewpoint as a problem, but do remember I'm not advocating a total ban worldwide on alcohol ... just when travelling on public transport and being considerate to others... not just those like me, but how about people who are trying to recover from alcohol-based problems and know all it takes is one more can to get back on their problem (trying to avoid the temptation caused by smelling someone else's brew),

where to start here? I know you're not advocating a worldwide ban, but you have cosistently failed to provide examples or stats. I suspect your puritanical streak causes you to exaggerate the problem. Let's not forget how at the start of the thread as far as you were concerned anyone having a can on the tube was an alcoholic. More evidence of your inability to consider alcohol without hysterical judgment.