Boris's ban on alcohol on London Transport (with poll)

[scifisam]

If "drinking alcohol" bothers me, then it bothers me, they don't have to be drunk and yelling abuse at me for it to be considered a problem by me. We all have our own standards and tolerances.

By the way, the vote is 62 totally against, v 61 for it or not totally against at the moment. Quite balanced considering.

So you'd ban drinking on the grounds that drinking itself bothers you even if they're not actually doing anything else out of the ordinary? You're a bit messed up.

 

[editor]

Of course. Because all contexts are exactly alike and therefore must be regulated by the same rules.

So it's OK for people to get pissed on planes - and sometimes cause major problems - but it's not OK for people to drink a can on the tube?

How's that work then?

 

[untethered]

So people get into an enormous, selfish, pollution machine, that chokes up the lungs of the people of London, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and causes Christ knows how many accidents and fatalities, because they're annoyed by the antisocial behavior of others?

I'm sure I don't need to point out the hypocrisy here.

ajdown's point was a fair one. And you're right, too, that reaching for the car because you're bothered by the anti-social behaviour of others is neither right nor appropriate.

But that's why we need to make public transport and public space as pleasant as possible for everyone. So that the incentives to use it are maximised and the disincentives are minimised.

And I return to my much earlier point that there is an equity factor here. While some people have the option of driving when public transport/space gets too intolerable, many don't. We have a responsibility to those people to ensure their lives are as safe and comfortable as possible while moving around the city.

 

[untethered]

So it's OK for people to get p- on planes - and sometimes cause major problems - but it's not OK for people to drink a can on the tube?

How's that work then?

Apologies that I didn't clarify my earlier point, but I am in favour of an alcohol ban on planes too.

It's not acceptable for people to get drunk anywhere but the usefulness of regulating both drinking and drunkenness varies from situation to situation.

 

[mitochondria]

I think eating oranges and other citrus fruit should also be forbidden on the tube. Smell makes me drool and that's a discomfort for me and many other people would also experience this. BAN the fruit!

 

[Giles]

I voted for the ban 100%.

I couldn't give a toss about drinking on the tube, but I do care that now he has come out with this, he has got to enforce it somehow, or he will look like a complete twat.

The enforcement of any rule on the underground, is going to make it safer, as it means staff will have to be actively involved with passengers, to make sure they don't have open drinks and intervening if they do. This involves a presence and can only help in passenger safety.

The idea is that it is easier to have tube staff tell people that they can't drink at all, than to have to call police to actually arrest someone for being drunk and disorderly.

That is obviously the theory. Whether the staff will actually do anything to stop people remains to be seen......

Giles..

 

[untethered]

39 pages?!?

shows the depth of peoples' addiction I suppose.

Indeed.

Urban75 is the hard stuff. Once you get sucked in, it's very hard to find your way out again.

 

[tommers]

Indeed.

Urban75 is the hard stuff. Once you get sucked in, it's very hard to find your way out again.

argumentoholics.

 

[Poi E]

For every rule, the harm that supposedly would be prevented by the rule should be shown. No-one has done so yet. The only arguments I've heard are:

-More rules are good for London
-some people don't like watching others drink alcohol
-putting booze in the way of recovering alcoholics is not nice

 

[jæd]

As already replied by Crispy, the ban is transport wide.

Your first few posts were about drinking on the Tube. Or are bendy-buses called "carriages" these days.

At least on a bus if someone is getting out of control, it is much easier to move to a position of safety and get off at the next stop - whereas on a tube you don't have access to the driver and there might be much longer between stops. Even if you pull the emergency cord, the train usually continues to the next station which may be several minutes before help is available.

Or you could just move to the next carriage...

I would have thought that all the environmentalists here would be supporting a measure like the alcohol ban as part of encouraging people to leave their cars at home and use public transport instead.

I've never, ever been threatened by anti-social behaviour to the extent I would use a car... And I don't know anyone else who would...

 

[untethered]

A passenger survey showing the actual need for this new law backed up by police arrest figures would be a good start,.

People don't get arrested for irritating and causing minor irritation to other passengers by drinking. It's not against the law. Yet.

And what good would a passenger survey do? What if 70% wanted a ban and 30% didn't? Would that veto the ban because it would go against the wishes of a significant minority? Would a simple majority in favour of the ban be sufficient? Who decides how the survey is constructed and interpreted?

Leadership is about instinct and taking risks. Mr Johnson's instinct here is spot on and he does, of course, take full responsibility for the policy.

If you don't like it, you don't have to vote for him again at the next election.

You may currently be enjoying having an autocratic major making up laws on his personal whims, but who knows - something you like doing might be next on his ban list.

I doubt Mr Johnson will be banning being well-dressed, reading books and having a polite conversation with one's immediate neighbour. Those that act reasonably and considerately of others have little to fear from a mayor that wants to encourage and where necessary, enforce consideration.

So are you for a ban on planes or not?

Yes, please.

 

[ajdown]

so what you sdaw as a child prevented you from developing a sensible attitude towards alcohol. Bad luck

I don't see it as 'bad luck' in the slightest actually.

If someone chooses to do something that impairs their judgement, puts them at personal risk, and has the potential to do long-term damage to their body... how on earth can that be 'sensible'???

 

[ovaltina]

This is about the minor problems. The small incivilities. The inconsideration for others. The unwelcome, discourteous, sub-criminal undesirable behaviour.

/Daily Mail
Bring on the Tory nanny state! Much better than the NU Labour nanny state!
/

 

[editor]

If someone chooses to do something that impairs their judgement, puts them at personal risk, and has the potential to do long-term damage to their body... how on earth can that be 'sensible'???

Do you drink at all?

And you are aware that moderate alcohol consumption can be good for you, yes?

 

[jæd]

I'm sorry if you see my viewpoint as a problem, but do remember I'm not advocating a total ban worldwide on alcohol ... just when travelling on public transport and being considerate to others... not just those like me, but how about people who are trying to recover from alcohol-based problems and know all it takes is one more can to get back on their problem (trying to avoid the temptation caused by smelling someone else's brew), but parents with children travelling, and of course the image that it gives to tourists.

So based on just you, we should ban drinking, even though you can't give any solid evidence that it causes a problems...

I think we should ban people from wearing tracksuits, because even though it doesn't cause any problems, I don't like them... And what would tourist think if they saw someone wearing them.

 

[untethered]

I think we should ban people from wearing tracksuits, because even though it doesn't cause any problems...

Can you start a new thread for this one, please? I wouldn't want to derail this one.

 

[Dravinian]

And that's a bad thing?

I would say it is a win win situation.

He fails and looks like a complete twat, Win.

He succeeds and the extra staff required are involved and represent a presence on trains and stations, thus making it far safer. Win.

Hence me voting 100% yes.

 

[Crispy]

Can you start a new thread for this one, please? I wouldn't want to derail this one.

 

[jæd]

Do you drink at all?

And you are aware that moderate alcohol consumption can be good for you, yes?

He could be a recovered alcoholic. But then I have a mate who is, and he doesn't insist I'm not allowed to drink when I'm around him...

 

[DotCommunist]

He could be a recovered alcoholic. But then I have a mate who is, and he doesn't insist I'm not allowed to drink when I'm around him...

He said earlier in the thread that he doesn't drink, and now we find his militant teetotal stance comes from having witnessed what alcoholics do to themselves as a child.

 

[ajdown]

Do you drink at all?

And you are aware that moderate alcohol consumption can be good for you, yes?

No, I don't drink, and proud of the fact.

I am aware that 'moderate' can be good, in some circumstances... but the whole problem here is that people's alcohol consumption rarely is 'moderate'

 

[Fruitloop]

But that's just bollocks though isn't it. Millions of people drink moderately, claiming that this is not the case just makes you look foolish, as many of us drink moderately ourselves and know large numbers of people who do likewise.

 

[DotCommunist]

No, I don't drink, and proud of the fact.

I am aware that 'moderate' can be good, in some circumstances... but the whole problem here is that people's alcohol consumption rarely is 'moderate'

What a bizarre thing to be proud of

 

[ajdown]

What a bizarre thing to be proud of

To you, perhaps. But that doesn't devalue it.

 

[ymu]

I didn't suggest that "pre-drinking" would be banned, did I?

I return to my point that there is something very wrong with drinking to get drunk. Isn't that so?

It's irrelevant what I think about it. People do it.

 

[untethered]

It's irrelevant what I think about it. People do it.

People murder people, too.

Should society have an opinion on the matter, and if it's a bad thing, seek to curtail it?

 

[Roadkill]

I am aware that 'moderate' can be good, in some circumstances... but the whole problem here is that people's alcohol consumption rarely is 'moderate'

Some people drink too much. So what? What has this to do with an alcohol ban on public transport?

 

[Poi E]

People murder people, too.

Should society have an opinion on the matter, and if it's a bad thing, seek to curtail it?

Drinking on the tube equated with murder.

 

[untethered]

Drinking on the tube equated with murder.

Don't be ridiculous.

Although in one sense, it's worse. Most of us are never troubled by murder, whereas we are constantly subjected to the selfish habits of gangs of pre-drinkers, scowling hooders and the tinnitus timpani.

It's time to improve the quality of life of everyone rather than just concentrating on the worst crimes.

 

[editor]

It's time to improve the quality of life of everyone rather than just concentrating on the worst crimes.

Clearing the streets of noisy, polluting, dangerous cars would immeasurably improve the quality of life in neighbourhoods, as would bringing in a more equitable distribution of wealth and more opportunities for the under privileged.

Are you doing anything about these issues, or is it just the thought of someone quietly and harmlessly enjoying a drink on the tube that bothers you so?