BNP leader faces jail!!

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Aw I want to take over the BNP

 

[The Black Hand]

i suppose you'll be printing a longer run of mayday 5 then.

TBH Mayday circulation is BETTER than my old magazine ANIMAL was in the 1990s already.

Also, in proportion and taking everything into account Mayday puts the circulation of other magazines to shame imho - but then I would say that wouldn't I

 

[The Black Hand]

Every thread winds up being about Black Hand
'E's a troll on a roll ...

Given that I want to see more of stuff like this, my role is not that of a troll;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9953293&postcount=101

It is surprising how bad and unconstructive threads are on U75. That is all your faults peeps, not mine.

I defend myself and will continue to do so

 

[Pickman's model]

TBH Mayday circulation is BETTER than my old magazine ANIMAL was in the 1990s already.

Also, in proportion and taking everything into account Mayday puts the circulation of other magazines to shame imho - but then I would say that wouldn't I

but it doesn't circulate! the last time i checked, there were more copies in freedom than you'd actually dropped off, as someone who'd bought it at the bookfair and then had a look inside had left it in the shop.

 

[The Black Hand]

but it doesn't circulate! the last time i checked, there were more copies in freedom than you'd actually dropped off, as someone who'd bought it at the bookfair and then had a look inside had left it in the shop.

SO he wanted others to have a look at it. You can look at your example in 2 ways Pickman, positive and negative, reality isn't straight forward and you cannot assume things as you have done.

 

[Pickman's model]

SO he wanted others to have a look at it. You can look at your example in 2 ways Pickman, positive and negative, reality isn't straight forward and you cannot assume things as you have done.

they still aren't selling. unless people are halfinching them out of freedom.

 

[The Black Hand]

they still aren't selling. unless people are halfinching them out of freedom.

Selling magazines is difficult these days for everybody due to technological change and therefore changing habits.

The bigger mistake and one I feel guilty about is the gender assumption in my last post on this thread. Apologies. It should have read "he/she".

 

[butchersapron]

Especially if they're shit.

 

[The Black Hand]

Especially if they're shit.

It is a good job Mayday is a practical contribution to the class struggle then Butch. The postal worker article was excellent labour process material of a key class struggle. TO say otherwise is expedient and/or lies.

 

[ViolentPanda]

People who could be swayed to vote BNP wouldn't understand fascism beyond knowing that it's just "bad" and linked in some way to racism.

Why not, are they too thick?
No, they're not. They may very well understand what fascism is, but still vote for the BNP. Voting, in the UK, tends to be instrumentally-inclined rather than community-centric, that is; people vote for the candidate who offers them the best deal, not the one who'll be "best" for the whole community. Gone are the days when a majority of British subjects voted along lines of assumed class interest. We now live in the days of "every man for himself".

Most don't know if the BNP are truly racist or facist because they have no exposure to BNP policies or their leadership histories.
All they see or hear are the snippets in the media that give the impression that the BNP stand for British culture, British tradition and Bristish jobs. How many would think that was a bad platform to stand on? How many would view it as racist or fascist? As Otter pointed out earlier in this thread, all methods of opposition to the BNP are valid, one doesn't trump another.

I haven't said otherwise.

I'd like to understand the root cause and not the sympton of why people would even consider supporting the BNP.

Fear and insecurity. We're in the same place as we were 85 years ago, in terms of social insecurity and the cleavages between those with power and those without. The difference between then and now is that the working class back then understood that they could, to some degree, build alternative structures. Nowadays that solidarity and willingness to step outside the "safety" of the safety net has been indoctrinated out of people. That's why someone promising to curb immigration and put a feeling of self-pride back into people can garner votes. It's why Thatcher was able to draw most of the votes of NF sympathisers back when she first came to power; by promising to do much of what the NF were promising to do.

 

[JimPage]

Court case tomorrow, incidentally. BNP asking for a 3 week adjournment, I understand

 

[Luther Blissett]

TBH Mayday circulation is BETTER than my old magazine ANIMAL was in the 1990s already.

Three is better that one.

Also, in proportion and taking everything into account Mayday puts the circulation of other magazines to shame imho - but then I would say that wouldn't I

Yes, you would.

 

[Luther Blissett]

Given that I want to see more of stuff like this, my role is not that of a troll;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9953293&postcount=101

So in effect you want to see more of your own posts, expounding your own view?
Masturbation.

 

[Luther Blissett]

It is a good job Mayday is a practical contribution to the class struggle then Butch. The postal worker article was excellent labour process material of a key class struggle. TO say otherwise is expedient and/or lies.

More masturbation.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Give over, that's just bullshit and you know it is.

No, it's an opinion.
All you're doing is rolling up the fact that a handful of posters have a personal antipathy for you with the fact that more than a handful of posters disagree with you, and concluding that because they disagree with you, they're part of some "ganging up" exercise.

I quite like people who are open to discussing things, and that is certainly NOT the experience on U75.
'My way or the highway' is certainly the dominant characteristic of these ultra lefties, the example on this thread is a good one.

I haven't seen any manifestations of "my way or the highway" from anyone vaguely left, "ultra" or otherwise.

There is no experimentation or exploration of what politics actually is, it is just the application of preconceived prejeudices, and it is going nowhere and it has gone nowhere for years. How long will the tired ultra lefties keep this up? Unfortunately if experience is anything to go on, way too long. Its a big all round FAIL.

Perhaps some of those posters are busy doing experimentation or exploration, rather than merely writing about it, and indulging in self-publicising, which Luther Blissett has accurately quantified as "masturbation".

A few years ago the tired lefties came onto U75 and just do the same thing over and over again. Its very sad. That you have joined the lizards is even more sad.

Whereas you engage in "praxis through publishing" which, for you, turns out to be...doing the same thing over and over.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Court case tomorrow, incidentally. BNP asking for a 3 week adjournment, I understand

By which time they'll possibly be presenting the judge with a fait accompli in the form of a new constitution.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It is a good job Mayday is a practical contribution to the class struggle then Butch. The postal worker article was excellent labour process material of a key class struggle. TO say otherwise is expedient and/or lies.

I'm surprised you haven't suffered a dislocated arm, patting yourself on the back so often.

 

[MrA]

from what you've said in this post it's because they're thick.

No I didn't. I wish there was a wanker smiley.

and you follow this up with utter bilge. eg: 'All they see or hear are the snippets in the media that give the impression that the BNP stand for British culture, British tradition and Bristish jobs.'

And? You keep your blinkers on son shine, you clearly have all the answers..

but we've already established that every mainstream media outlet has described them as racists.

Not everyone believes it, why?

you've said before that if i could provide proof of your mendacity you'd be on your way. while i doubt you'll sling your hook, your claim about snippets in the media is a clear lie.

Cunt,

 

[frogwoman]

Perhaps the reason why the bnp is gaining support (and maybe what mrA was trying to point out?) is also because not only are the media describing them as racists, but the whole idea of what being racist is is now being devalued. "political correctness gone mad" stories are reported (and not only by the right wing media, but because of the discussions they provoke etc) more than actual racist attacks. anti-racism is therefore becoming like just another dogma, which is why endlessly pointing out the bnp are racist isnt likely to have much effect on people who would vote bnp anyway.

 

[MrA]

Perhaps the reason why the bnp is gaining support (and maybe what mrA was trying to point out?) is also because not only are the media describing them as racists, but the whole idea of what being racist is is now being devalued. "political correctness gone mad" stories are reported (and not only by the right wing media, but because of the discussions they provoke etc) more than actual racist attacks. anti-racism is therefore becoming like just another dogma, which is why endlessly pointing out the bnp are racist isnt likely to have much effect on people who would vote bnp anyway.

Thanks

 

[JimW]

No I didn't. I wish there was a wanker smiley...

Your wish is our command

it's the roll-eyes that makes it

 

[MrA]

Your wish is our command

it's the roll-eyes that makes it

Only on the vinegar stroke....

 

[TremulousTetra]

Why not? It would generate a lot of posts. We could call someone a toucher next.

I have no idea whether or not somebody did call butchers a fascist, and couldn't give a shit. VP could give me a link, or admit they didn't, what would it matter? Nothing! It's madness, the way the fuckers get all lathered up, about nothing. But it's, sadly, funny, adding to, and stirring the madness. Once in a while.

Mr. A did however, make the cardinal sin. He asked butchers question.

Sorry m8, it's secret. I could tell you,,,,,,,,, but I'd have to kill you.

[/QUOTE]And whenever you do that he has three tactics.

1. He ask's you a question back.
2. He throws the most insane hissy fit, only worthy of a cartoon character.
3. He pretends to fuck off, but lurks.

I'm gonna quit stirring on 25 pages. Bet Mr. A dont get an answer, because as has been said about butchers.

You are such a moron. Like some whiney bitch who gets his kicks from mithering on about efforts others make.

 

[Pickman's model]

No I didn't. I wish there was a wanker smiley.

you said "people who could be swayed to vote bnp wouldn't understand fascism". i don't know what else you meant by that other than they're thick.

then you go on to spout more bollocks, such as

Most don't know if the BNP are truly racist or facist because they have no exposure to BNP policies or their leadership histories.

leaving aside the vast amount of ink spilled just a few months ago about nick griffin round the time he was elected to the european parliament, last year the vast majority of homes in the uk received party election communications from, among others, the bnp. in a few months time there will be a similar deluge of shite descending on people's doormats. on many occasions in recent years the bnp leadership's pasts have been mentioned in the mainstream media, for example arthur kemp's involvement in the assassination of sacp general secretary chris hani was reported in the guardian round may last year.

but you disregard this: you say that

Just because the media brand the BNP racist it doesn't follow that people actually believe it or that it has the impact that it once had.

you're all over the bloody shop.

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps the reason why the bnp is gaining support (and maybe what mrA was trying to point out?) is also because not only are the media describing them as racists, but the whole idea of what being racist is is now being devalued. "political correctness gone mad" stories are reported (and not only by the right wing media, but because of the discussions they provoke etc) more than actual racist attacks. anti-racism is therefore becoming like just another dogma, which is why endlessly pointing out the bnp are racist isnt likely to have much effect on people who would vote bnp anyway.

while there is a case to be made for that, if you reread MrA's post about how people who could be swayed to vote bnp wouldn't understand fascism clearly differentiates between racism and fascism.

and if he means that people wouldn't understand racism, i submit he's wrong.

 

[TremulousTetra]

No, it's an opinion.
All you're doing is rolling up the fact that a handful of posters have a personal antipathy for you with the fact that more than a handful of posters disagree with you, and concluding that because they disagree with you, they're part of some "ganging up" exercise.

I haven't seen any manifestations of "my way or the highway" from anyone vaguely left, "ultra" or otherwise.

Perhaps some of those posters are busy doing experimentation or exploration, rather than merely writing about it, and indulging in self-publicising, which Luther Blissett has accurately quantified as "masturbation".

Whereas you engage in "praxis through publishing" which, for you, turns out to be...doing the same thing over and over.

So forget all the nitpicking, what is the best stratergy. I promise not to act like some whiney bitch who gets his kicks from mithering on about efforts others make. Zip! Not one word.

 

[TremulousTetra]

while there is a case to be made for that, if you reread MrA's post about how people who could be swayed to vote bnp wouldn't understand fascism clearly differentiates between racism and fascism.

and if he means that people wouldn't understand racism, i submit he's wrong.

Fucking hell.

 

[MrA]

you said "people who could be swayed to vote bnp wouldn't understand fascism". i don't know what else you meant by that other than they're thick.

There's a cap and I would guess that it'd fit you.

then you go on to spout more bollocks, such as leaving aside the vast amount of ink spilled just a few months ago about nick griffin round the time he was elected to the european parliament, last year the vast majority of homes in the uk received party election communications from, among others, the bnp. in a few months time there will be a similar deluge of shite descending on people's doormats. on many occasions in recent years the bnp leadership's pasts have been mentioned in the mainstream media, for example arthur kemp's involvement in the assassination of sacp general secretary chris hani was reported in the guardian round may last year.

Go into Stoke or Oldham, areas I have worked in and engage people who would consider voting BNP and why? Ask if they believe that the BNP are truly a racist party, and then ask them for a definition of fascism. Ask them about media coverage of the BNP and why they still believe that the BNP are not a racist party. These people are middle to lower middle class btw.

But as I suspect you are bogged down in ideology, stuck up your own jacksie and you're far removed from reality.

I have yet to see you offer anything other than criticism and blather. Put something on the table or are you just full of wind. I don't mind having my postion kick to shreds but lets see an alternative, something that is frustratingly lacking in some quarters.

 

[Pickman's model]

There's a cap and I would guess that it'd fit you.

i'd be interested to see in which of my posts you thought i said that the bnp constitution and manifesto were at the same time racist and fascist and not racist and not fascist. but i'm not surprised you haven't shared your discovery with the rest of us because it doesn't exist. that's stupidity, claiming something exists which doesn't.

Go into Stoke or Oldham, areas I have worked in and engage people who would consider voting BNP and why? Ask if they believe that the BNP are truly a racist party, and then ask them for a definition of fascism. Ask them about media coverage of the BNP and why they still believe that the BNP are not a racist party. These people are middle to lower middle class btw.

oh - my - god - middle class people can be thick as pigshit - hold the front page for MrA's astonishing discovery

however, this is what's knownn as 'shifting the goalposts', which often happens when someone's entire argument is built not even on sand but on shit. after all, just a minute ago you were claiming that - apparently objectively -

All they see or hear are the snippets in the media that give the impression that the BNP stand for British culture, British tradition and Bristish jobs.

, that is that the media gives the bnp a free ride without bringing up the racism and fascism inherent in their beliefs. that the media are either 'useful idiots' or colluding in presenting a positive image of the bnp.

which is utter fucking deluded nonsense. it's laughable. it's the sort of thing which would be expected from bloody no-planers.

you say you don't mind having your 'position' kicked to shreds. but it can't be done, because you have no position, just a load of pisspoor contradictory platitudes.

the only alternative to your 'position' seems to me to be reality, in which the media aren't lined up behind the bnp. if you knew anything about the history of fascism, whether within the history of this country or italy or germany, you'd know that fascism has frequently been particularly attractive to elements of the middle and lower-middle classes, so it's no great shock to me to find that in some parts of the uk the same thing's true today.

your posts are, as the bard put it, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

[Boppity]

MrA is right about the average person not understanding what fascism is. It's nothing to do with being thick, many people are just startlingly apathetic when it comes to politics. To some people voting for the BNP it probably wouldn't even be a consideration.

Even when the BNP are being depicted as racist in the media, they are given a platform to speak.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-defends-shambolic-Question-Time-debut.html

This article, for example. Though it's not pro-BNP by any stretch it's a platform by which the BNP are able to spread their message regardless.

Mr Griffin, 50, had refused to return to London - the location for last night's Question Time - declaring it was 'no longer part of Britain.'

'There is not much support for me there because the place is dominated by ethnic minorities,' he said.

'There is an ethnic minority that supports me: the English. But there's not many of them left.

'London is no longer a city my grandparents would recognise. It is changed beyond all recognition.

'Many of the ancestral Londoners have left over the last 20 years because they can no longer call it home.'