BNP leader faces jail!!

[Pickman's model]

which is a different question again.

but MrA can't have it both ways. he can't say that the media give a positive impression of the bnp while saying that although the media frequently mention the bnp's racism people don't believe it. the both can't be true.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So forget all the nitpicking, what is the best stratergy. I promise not to act like some whiney bitch who gets his kicks from mithering on about efforts others make. Zip! Not one word.

First you need to understand what strategy is and means, and too many political organisations, even the mainstream ones either don't know or have forgotten.
Strategy means looking at what you're facing and assessing which parts of your enemy's forces or ideology can be attacked and where so as to cause most damage, and then fighting your campaign, for which you need:
Tactics. Where strategy is your overarching plan, tactics are the plans you deploy to fight specific instances of contact. You tailor your tactics to the specifics.

So, in my opinion, strategy specifically aimed at insuring that the BNP have a hard or impossible job capitalising on any public sentiment leaning their way due to current structural and social issues, would centre around tackling those structural and social issues that can be dealt with at a grass-roots level, rebutting propaganda with fact "on the doorsteps", and keeping a momentum that doesn't just encompass a fortnightly or monthly protest in the town centre. We're talking hard work by the community for the community, to generate a result by the community for the community.
With regard to issues that can't be dealt with at community level, then concerted community pressure on local government can often do wonders once the local government establishment get over trying to "monster" you for daring to try to exercise actual community power rather than just a facsimile of it.

As for tactics, you deploy what you have to hand that bet fits the circumstances you encounter. If that means "shadowing" BNP canvassers and then canvassing wherever they canvass, then you do that. If it means digging into the background of your local BNP members, you do that and make sure that your local and regional media are aware. If it means "engineering" a confrontation, then you do that.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Perhaps the reason why the bnp is gaining support (and maybe what mrA was trying to point out?) is also because not only are the media describing them as racists, but the whole idea of what being racist is is now being devalued. "political correctness gone mad" stories are reported (and not only by the right wing media, but because of the discussions they provoke etc) more than actual racist attacks. anti-racism is therefore becoming like just another dogma, which is why endlessly pointing out the bnp are racist isnt likely to have much effect on people who would vote bnp anyway.

Although they certainly are racist, and so are most of their voters habitual racists, I don't think their success/popularity is fundamentally driven by racism. It's the rejection of pluralism (not only as a general phenomenon, such as banning everything, which is everywhere but) as represented by multiculturalism per se - because it is not really inclusive, expressions of racism can logically follow that, so can religious fundamentalism, for that matter. That is what has allowed racism to be revived as a political actor. This also extends well beyond the BNP.

 

[Boppity]

which is a different question again.

but MrA can't have it both ways. he can't say that the media give a positive impression of the bnp while saying that although the media frequently mention the bnp's racism people don't believe it. the both can't be true.

He didn't say the media gave a positive impression of the BNP, he said that people form their impressions (that the BNP is all about patriotism or what have you) based on snippets from the media. All that needs to happen for this is that the BNP be given a platform by the media to spew their bile and spin it as justified, which they are.

 

[TremulousTetra]

First you need to understand what strategy is and means, and too many political organisations, even the mainstream ones either don't know or have forgotten.
Strategy means looking at what you're facing and assessing which parts of your enemy's forces or ideology can be attacked and where so as to cause most damage, and then fighting your campaign, for which you need:
Tactics. Where strategy is your overarching plan, tactics are the plans you deploy to fight specific instances of contact. You tailor your tactics to the specifics.

So, in my opinion, strategy specifically aimed at insuring that the BNP have a hard or impossible job capitalising on any public sentiment leaning their way due to current structural and social issues, would centre around tackling those structural and social issues that can be dealt with at a grass-roots level, rebutting propaganda with fact "on the doorsteps", and keeping a momentum that doesn't just encompass a fortnightly or monthly protest in the town centre. We're talking hard work by the community for the community, to generate a result by the community for the community.
With regard to issues that can't be dealt with at community level, then concerted community pressure on local government can often do wonders once the local government establishment get over trying to "monster" you for daring to try to exercise actual community power rather than just a facsimile of it.

As for tactics, you deploy what you have to hand that bet fits the circumstances you encounter. If that means "shadowing" BNP canvassers and then canvassing wherever they canvass, then you do that. If it means digging into the background of your local BNP members, you do that and make sure that your local and regional media are aware. If it means "engineering" a confrontation, then you do that.

There you go Mr. A.

Zip, throw key away.

 

[Pickman's model]

He didn't say the media gave a positive impression of the BNP, he said that people form their impressions (that the BNP is all about patriotism or what have you) based on snippets from the media. All that needs to happen for this is that the BNP be given a platform by the media to spew their bile and spin it as justified, which they are.

what he actually said is:

All they see or hear are the snippets in the media that give the impression that the BNP stand for British culture, British tradition and Bristish jobs.

produce some of these snippets and the articles from which they're taken so we may judge.

 

[JimPage]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hance-to-scrap-whitesonly-policy-1882127.html

As far as i can see, this will mean a ban on the BNP as their policy aims are against the law- not just their mmebership- but what they stand for

Listened to Griffins response on Simon Darby blog- and Griffin for all intents and purposes forsees a ban and de-registration of the BNP if they dont drop their racist politics

 

[Boppity]

what he actually said is:
produce some of these snippets and the articles from which they're taken so we may judge.

How is MrA in any way implying that the media give a positive impression of the BNP?

The BNP say that they are all about protecting British interests and that they are not racist and the media provides them with a platform on which to say this. This can be seen in the Daily Mail article above, despite the fact that the article itself is uncomplimentary.

 

[The Black Hand]

So in effect you want to see more of your own posts, expounding your own view?
Masturbation.

No tit head, I was alluding to solid class struggle posts which you lot FAIL to provide.

 

[The Black Hand]

Three is better that one.

Thats a wierd comment and ununderstandable.

 

[The Black Hand]

I'm surprised you haven't suffered a dislocated arm, patting yourself on the back so often.

That's because Labour process is vital to Marxism, without it there is no purchase on the scale or nature of issues in particular industries.

 

[The Black Hand]

No, it's an opinion.
All you're doing is rolling up the fact that a handful of posters have a personal antipathy for you with the fact that more than a handful of posters disagree with you, and concluding that because they disagree with you, they're part of some "ganging up" exercise.

No, I know the political allegiances of those dupes/dopes (i can't make up my mind which) and it is clear what has happened, the 'ganging up' is always the pathetic usual suspects. This thread carries a clear example of it too.

 

[MrA]

you said "people who could be swayed to vote bnp wouldn't understand fascism". i don't know what else you meant by that other than they're thick.

If you believe that people who don't understand Fascism are thick then that's your premise not mine. Not all people will know it's history or modern context.

then you go on to spout more bollocks, such as leaving aside the vast amount of ink spilled just a few months ago about nick griffin round the time he was elected to the european parliament, last year the vast majority of homes in the uk received party election communications from, among others, the bnp. in a few months time there will be a similar deluge of shite descending on people's doormats. on many occasions in recent years the bnp leadership's pasts have been mentioned in the mainstream media, for example arthur kemp's involvement in the assassination of sacp general secretary chris hani was reported in the guardian round may last year.

How many people would know who Arthur Kemp is today? Lets look at this

Glenis Willmott said fellow MEP Mr Griffin was trying to "stir up racial hatred" in his comments, made on social media websites on Thursday.

Yet this article does not quote the BNP making a racial attack on Hatians, only a lack of compassion followed by examples of the BNP wanting to look after British people first, not white British, just British.

Mr Griffin, MEP for North West England, responded with another Twitter post, saying: "Individuals should give whatever they feel appropriate, but Britain is bankrupt. Fifty thousands pensioners will die... of cold this winter.

Can't you see the impression that this statement makes as it is reported? Pick out an obvious racist agenda from that news article, I use the word obvious with regard to people who wouldn't have read the BNP manifesto or constitution.

 

[MrA]

oh - my - god - middle class people can be thick as pigshit - hold the front page for MrA's astonishing discovery

Your words not mine (again). Uniformed or uninterested would be a better description. You still haven't answered two questions that I have repeatedly asked you,

1. What is your opinion on tackling the BNP?
2. Why are people even condsidering voting for the BNP if they KNOW they are a racist party and the media portray them as such?

All the rest is you attacking context, construction and opinion, you've done little esle but try and score points instead of making one.

 

[MrA]

what he actually said isroduce some of these snippets and the articles from which they're taken so we may judge.

And where is the word positive impression, stop playing the semantics game, it's boring and pathetic....

But as I suspect you are bogged down in ideology, stuck up your own jacksie and you're far removed from reality.

I have yet to see you offer anything other than criticism and blather. Put something on the table or are you just full of wind. I don't mind having my postion kick to shreds but lets see an alternative, something that is frustratingly lacking in some quarters.

Still waiting......

 

[Zaskar]

I wish some people who appear or claim to be anti fa would join the bnp. Then I could hate them with a clear conscience.

Pickman's model is clearly treading on Butchers apron strings.

Pickman - you are wrong in many ways and appear to need to shut up as you look silly.

Pickman and his idiot friends have been harassing me on here for ages - harassing me on a thread where I am fucking rinsing the bnp.

At the risk of blowing my own trumpet - I do the right ting - i get death threats - I do the right thing - I get more - he fucking whines on when i say - a senior bnp activist has stopped making bnp videos - he has been excommunicated from the bnp - and still he and his pals whinny on - shut up if you cant help.

It's scary stuff - so just get a grip.

Please sub my ad free channel to show support - otherwise - fuck off ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/user/RogerTheBNPandMe

 

[Zaskar]

I just read some of this thread - tragic.
Big up to the contributors who do appear to talk sense and how odd that many just appear to post here as a sort of hobby - trying to look all celver and grammer school - idiots.

ba / pm / vp - and those morons arguing about some toilet paper lefty rags - oh lols.

So much 'judaen peoples front' nonsense really isint it ? Yea crap gag for crap people.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I just read some of this thread - tragic.
Big up to the contributors who do appear to talk sense and how odd that many just appear to post here as a sort of hobby - trying to look all celver and grammer school - idiots.

ba / pm / vp - and those morons arguing about some toilet paper lefty rags - oh lols.

So much 'judaen peoples front' nonsense really isint it ? Yea crap gag for crap people.

Yawn. Zaskar has a dig at people who called him a stool pigeon on another thread. How unsurprising.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I wish some people who appear or claim to be anti fa would join the bnp. Then I could hate them with a clear conscience.

A wish that illustrates just what order of cunt you must be.

Pickman's model is clearly treading on Butchers apron strings.

Pickman - you are wrong in many ways and appear to need to shut up as you look silly.

Pickman and his idiot friends have been harassing me on here for ages - harassing me on a thread where I am fucking rinsing the bnp.

Rinsing?
You're flattering yourself.

At the risk of blowing my own trumpet - I do the right ting - i get death threats - I do the right thing - I get more - he fucking whines on when i say - a senior bnp activist has stopped making bnp videos - he has been excommunicated from the bnp - and still he and his pals whinny on - shut up if you cant help.

It's scary stuff - so just get a grip.

Please sub my ad free channel to show support - otherwise - fuck off ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/user/RogerTheBNPandMe

Pathetic.
Anyone reading the thread you refer to will see that hardly anyone knocks your current actions (except for the way you constantly self-publicise and big yourself up. "at the risk of blowing my own trumpet"? You're having a laugh! It's what you do best!), we took you to task for being a grass, a stool pigeon, the second-lowest form of life after a scab.

Want me to link to the thread so that people reading your spiel can decide for themselves, Mr De Mille?

 

[Pickman's model]

If you believe that people who don't understand Fascism are thick then that's your premise not mine. Not all people will know it's history or modern context.

"people who could be swayed to vote bnp wouldn't understand fascism"

you're saying that none of the people who would think about voting bnp - and don't forget that you're talking about many thousands of people - would, according to you understand, fascism. you can't make such a sweeping statement and expect people to meekly ignore it. if you're not saying they're thick, you're saying they're ignorant, and that's equally unsustainable.

How many people would know who Arthur Kemp is today?

or lee barnes or mark collett or paul golding or whoever. the bnp leadership is, in my view, not simply nick griffin but the inner circle he has assembled around him, people like arthur kemp, lambertus nieuwhof, lance stewart, simon darby. but i suppose by leadership you've a rather more blinkered position, thinking just of griffin. if someone talked about the labour leadership they wouldn't mean simply gordon brown.

Lets look at this

Glenis Willmott said fellow MEP Mr Griffin was trying to "stir up racial hatred" in his comments, made on social media websites on Thursday.

Yet this article does not quote the BNP making a racial attack on Hatians, only a lack of compassion followed by examples of the BNP wanting to look after British people first, not white British, just British.

Mr Griffin, MEP for North West England, responded with another Twitter post, saying: "Individuals should give whatever they feel appropriate, but Britain is bankrupt. Fifty thousands pensioners will die... of cold this winter.

Can't you see the impression that this statement makes as it is reported? Pick out an obvious racist agenda from that news article, I use the word obvious with regard to people who wouldn't have read the BNP manifesto or constitution.

yes i can see the impression that makes and it's clear that willmott hasn't thought through what she's saying. the labour party haven't a fucking clue how to deal with the bnp and so they come out with crap like the stuff in the article.

All they see or hear are the snippets in the media that give the impression that the BNP stand for British culture, British tradition and Bristish jobs. How many would think that was a bad platform to stand on?

'positive impression' is a paraphrase of what you were saying here.

i don't have a strategy which would work under any and all circumstances to defeat the bnp which i would put up for muppets to gawp at. i believe that taking elements of the old afa strategy would certainly be in any proposal i'd put forwards, while also taking into account the current circumstances on the ground. the fact of the matter is that there is a great deal in the bnp platform which would not look out of place in a traditional socialist manifesto. it is that i believe which attracts many people who vote bnp. it is the work that many bnp units put in on the ground, be it helping the rspca or clearing snow or acting like good members of a community which helps substantiate their moderate image. and you're not going to convince many people of the reality of the bnp's programme if you say to them they're too thick or ignorant of fascism.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wish some people who appear or claim to be anti fa would join the bnp. Then I could hate them with a clear conscience.

out of curiosity, how many people out of antifa do you know who've grassed people to the police? i can hate you with a clear conscience because what you've done goes rather beyond the pale for anyone who may lay claim to working for a better society.

 

[The Black Hand]

which is a different question again.

but MrA can't have it both ways. he can't say that the media give a positive impression of the bnp while saying that although the media frequently mention the bnp's racism people don't believe it. the both can't be true.

I do not see why not Pickman, this is a particular example of black and white thinking by you i feel, simplistic yes/no. There is nothing to be gained by 'yes or no' thinking, which belonged to the 20th century if it belonged at all, its simply too diverse these days for that to be of any use.

In the real world the media is comprised of many different elements, the media do give a positive image of the BNP sometimes (even by accident/default). The media also does say the BNP are racist sometimes, and given that there IS a degree of scepticism in the population with regard to truth and the media, I do not see why it shouldn't apply in this case. So, in totality both trends are definately present, their relative strength is what should be discussed and evidence looked for.

It is the totality of the pluralist and diverse media that is also its strength, and that is not to say anything about the BNP in this particular instance.

 

[Pickman's model]

I do not see why not Pickman, this is a particular example of black and white thinking by you i feel, simplistic yes/no. There is nothing to be gained by 'yes or no' thinking, which belonged to the 20th century if it belonged at all, its simply too diverse these days for that to be of any use.

In the real world the media is comprised of many different elements, the media do give a positive image of the BNP sometimes (even by accident/default). The media also does say the BNP are racist sometimes, and given that there IS a degree of scepticism in the population with regard to truth and the media, I do not see why it shouldn't apply in this case. So, in totality both trends are definately present, their relative strength is what should be discussed and evidence looked for.

It is the totality of the pluralist and diverse media that is also its strength, and that is not to say anything about the BNP in this particular instance.

so what you're saying is that 'the media', which (as i've said above) is diverse, rarely give a positive image of the bnp: which shows a surprising unanimity among the various print and broadcast media.

 

[audiotech]

Appears to be some disgruntled former BNP members here?

exbnpbringthetruth.blogspot.com/

Link broken.

 

[butchersapron]

Come on mate, that's blatant. That's just the usual suspects trying to make it look like Griffin has ran out of road and that the parties disintegrating in the hope that this will become a self-fullfilling prophecy - just this time making it look like it's internal rather than it being LUAF or Stalingrad types.These things pop up every few months. And it's the same old stories every single time.

 

[audiotech]

I'm not sure of that, but I take your point.

 

[The Black Hand]

so what you're saying is that 'the media', which (as i've said above) is diverse, rarely give a positive image of the bnp: which shows a surprising unanimity among the various print and broadcast media.

No. See this "the media do give a positive image of the BNP sometimes (even by accident/default)" from that post. Butchers has said the same thing regarding the criminal records not putting people off cos they have records too.

 

[Pickman's model]

No. See this "the media do give a positive image of the BNP sometimes (even by accident/default)" from that post.

yes, so

what you're saying is that 'the media', which (as i've said above) is diverse, rarely give a positive image of the bnp: which shows a surprising unanimity among the various print and broadcast media.

 

[The Black Hand]

yes, so

I am not sure that your pov of the Neo liberal bourgeois press is useful, wtf did you expect?

 

[Pickman's model]

I am not sure that your pov of the Neo liberal bourgeois press is useful, wtf did you expect?

a better effort from you.



something along the lines of what you posted