BNP leader faces jail!!

[The Black Hand]

A) I'd agree, but the other side of the coin is spouting any old random bollocks is even less use.


B) And this is that sort of bollocks, coupled with the arrogance you have a go at others for - you get to say who's in the class struggle and who isn't? Who isn't imperfect?

C) We all know we are; it's you who's attributing bad motives to someone else - a long-term anti-fascist who you've got the fucking cheek to imply is a BNP apologist. If that's your touchy-feely human approach, shove it up your arse.

A) Straw man. There are other ways of doing things, just because you are not aware of them doesn't mean they are not there.

B) Arrogance? It iss called having a different working class perspective, there are many you know. The IWCA is a working class project certainly, to try and realise a version of class consciousness, but it isn't class struggle. There are differences you know. That is not to say that doing IWCA is not a struggle, just not a class struggle.

C) I am not implying bad motives. Ages ago I said that is what your version of anti fascism looks like, and lo, it has come to pass that several other people have come to that conclusion totally uninfluenced by me.

Again, it is a problem with your version of anti fascism, not ours or anybody who comes to that conclusion. Again, I have no problem with your analysis (but that is not to say I agree with it) but it is the way it is presented that is the problem.

 

[Pickman's model]

*taps watch*

 

[MrA]

*taps watch*

If this is directed at me then I'm sorry to let you know that we all can't be 24/7 internet warriors. Some of us have lives.

I'll respond later when I've got nothing better to do.

 

[Pickman's model]

If this is directed at me then I'm sorry to let you know that we all can't be 24/7 internet warriors. Some of us have lives.

I'll respond later when I've got nothing better to do.

don't bother: you said if i could demonstrate you were a liar then you'd be on your way.

 

[The39thStep]

originally quoted by The Black Hand

AS for signifying something, like Sartre I try to give history the meaning I see fit, with my class struggle priorities

Too modest imo. Reminds me of the description by Jim Higgins about Tony cliff's biography of Lenin which Higgins likened it to a book on St Paul written by Jesus Christ

 

[ViolentPanda]

A) I may do one day, I took it as read that people SHOULD know. Anybody familiar with the post war New Left should be able to see it. TBH I do know that lots of people have got fucked off with the anarchist movement and fucked off cos its virtually illiterate

This presupposes, though, that your definition of "old left/ultra-left" corresponds with historical actuality rather than mythology, and so far you've done little to convince that this is indeed the case.

B) I is unclean, and it is shocking Part of the anarchist movements attitude towards me is pathetic, it would be tragic if it weren't so sad etc...

Do you have Hansen's Disease, then? I thought it was easily treated with antibiotics nowadays, and that the bell and robe were no longer necessary.
As for "the anarchist movement", I wasn't aware there was one.
In fact, isn't it one of your bug-bears that there's no unitary movement for you to lead convince into action with the force of your arguments (given that many of the small organisations have anathematised you like unto a Pontiff anathematising a heretic)?

C) There is plenty of evidence that they ARE, I would beware of trying to assume or argue that people should 'do something like this, this way, in this order'. Social life is not like that, it is not all neat and teleological.

There's plenty of evidence that people accord to the criteria for your labels, but you're unwilling to share the criteria with us?

I do not know why I am your hobby horse all of a sudden either VP.

You're not. I like to ask questions.

D) Give it a rest VP, this website is shite as Larry pointed out the other day.
Sometimes you say things that are worth listening too, Rod too, Udo, TrevHagl, etc I am struggling and cannot think of any other contributors off the top of my head I like reading. Certainly not the 'anti fascist in crowd', its like the library at the morgue reading what they post. Dead before it is born.

If this site is shite, why soil yourself by contributing to it? Could it be because you're one of those people who needs an audience, however many tomatoes they pelt you with?

AS for signifying something, like Sartre I try to give history the meaning I see fit with my class struggle priorities. I certainly am clear in taking part in the movement I wish to encourage. I am leaving a trace that will live beyond my lifetime, and that I am happy with.

So this is about immortality for you, a form of immortality through leaving a political legacy, through leaving your mark in the class struggle?
If so then it's not about your "class struggle priorities", surely, but about your need or desire for recognition?

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's not that mysterious maaaaaan, we just got the big dix. An' any beeetch say no, we slap dem down maaaaan.

Innit?

Ah, so THINK! was right about the big dicks, then?

 

[LLETSA]

Too modest imo. Reminds me of the description by Jim Higgins about Tony cliff's biography of Lenin which Higgins likened it to a book on St Paul written by Jesus Christ

Funnily enough, hardly anybody knows what the fuck Sartre was on about either.

 

[audiotech]

Funnily enough, hardly anybody knows what the fuck Sartre was on about either.

So true.

 

[TremulousTetra]

He'll do a lot better then some others on here.

I find it incredible that different views on the BNP from the same side can be so destructive to one another.
My initial impression is that butchers and pickmans are confrontational twats who seem to be more interested in trying to make themselves look like internet hardmen at the expense of people who share their opposition to the BNP.

Cunts is an appropriate label..

quick learner. so stop wasting your time, do what you think is most productive.



SAD! Any real anarchist know's, having a variety of approaches to the same problem, differences of opinion, is a good thing.

 

[Knotted]

SAD! Any real anarchist know's, having a variety of approaches to the same problem, differences of opinion, is a good thing.

That's popular frontists not anarchists.

 

[The39thStep]

That's popular frontists not anarchists.

I didn't think that anarchists were allowed to have one opinion.

 

[MrA]

don't bother: you said if i could demonstrate you were a liar then you'd be on your way.

Which you haven't, look up the definition of a lie.

Since joining U75 all the far lefties have been every bit as bad as the far righties that I encounter on forums.

1. One dimensional thinking.
2. Believe that only they are 100% right.
3. Attack the construction and sementics of a post rather than debate the issue.
4. Have to "win" at all costs.

So, before this degenerates into a pointless full scale flame fest I'm going to stop. There,you can claim you won now, Well done.

 

[Blagsta]

your debating skills leave a lot to be desired

 

[Spymaster]

Ah, so THINK! was right about big dicks, then?

Only if he said he is one.

 

[JimW]

Which you haven't, look up the definition of a lie.

Since joining U75 all the far lefties have been every bit as bad as the far righties that I encounter on forums.

1. One dimensional thinking.
2. Believe that only they are 100% right.
3. Attack the construction and sementics of a post rather than debate the issue.
4. Have to "win" at all costs.

So, before this degenerates into a pointless full scale flame fest I'm going to stop. There,you can claim you won now, Well done.

Wasn't the story more like your only points of any substance were refuted or otherwise addressed some time in the dim and misty past of this interminable thread, then we've had all this meta-commentary because that alone wasn't good enough for you if unaccompanied by a UAF lollipop or recitation of the boy scout's anti-fascist code? So come down from the high horse.

 

[Pickman's model]

Which you haven't, look up the definition of a lie.

a lie is a claim which is demonstrably false, as per your claim that

you state that the BNP do not have a racist or fascist manifesto and constitution, then in the next breath you say that it's obvious they do

when i said nothing of the sort. if you're going to wander about making up things to suit your agenda, you should be used to having your mendacity pointed out rather forcefully.

on your way now.

 

[MrA]

Wasn't the story more like your only points of any substance were refuted

Actually there was one point that I had to concede because I was wrong, that was stated quite a while ago. If I am wrong I will admit it, if I have POV that's my entitlement, I am no different to billions of other normal people who repsond in a similar manner to the one in which I am engaged.
So with the likes of TBH and VP who clearly have differing stances regarding this subject I can read what they say, even if it contradicts my own personal view, without feeling that it's turning into a pissing contest.

good enough for you if unaccompanied by a UAF lollipop or recitation of the boy scout's anti-fascist code? So come down from the high horse.

Can you see the irony in this post?

 

[JimW]

....

Can you see the irony in this post?

Not really; you stripped out the "or addressed" in your quote above, which is a bit naughty and not a sign of good faith, and I'm not the one who's been banging on at such tedious length. My horse is a pony. Lovely mane.

 

[MrA]

a lie is a claim which is demonstrably false, as per your claim that when i said nothing of the sort. if you're going to wander about making up things to suit your agenda, you should be used to having your mendacity pointed out rather forcefully.

on your way now.

*yawn*

 

[Pickman's model]

so much for your claims of what you'd do if proven to be a liar.

 

[Pickman's model]

If I am wrong I will admit it

go on then, if you mean what you say here you'll have to admit you were wrong to post

you state that the BNP do not have a racist or fascist manifesto and constitution, then in the next breath you say that it's obvious they do

 

[butchersapron]

Mr A - you seem unable to see that it was precisely your being in the wrong and the defensive justifications you tried to introduce following on from that (that i'm BNP etc) that started everything off - that wasn't just some irrelevant side issue. You acted appallingly and opened the door for all the other shit - the people piggybacking on your posts with their own long standing agendas - agendas you may not be able to spot but which longer standing members here are more than aware of (in brief you were manupilated by them).

You started off offering opinion on the possibility of Nick griffin being jailed, i responded sensibly and informatively. You then suggested that forcible repatriation is BNP policy, i told you - correctly as you say you now concede - that it is not. You then suggested i might be BNP thereby poisoning any attempts at further discussion.

This is a situation of your own making and it genuinely beggars belief that you really are trying to blame it on anyone else. I even decided to just ignore all the shit and went back to responding to your posts in the orignal manner just to move the issue on, and instead of acting in like manner in order to achieve the same you re-appeared frothing at the mouth calling me (and others) cunts, twats and twisted bitches etc out of the blue.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yet you seem unable to see that it was precisely your being in the wrong

 

[MrA]

Mr A - you seem unable to see that it was precisely your being in the wrong and the defensive justifications you tried to introduce following on from that (that i'm BNP etc) that started everything off - that wasn't just some irrelevant side issue.

In mitigation, I was trying to make a point about the BNP agenda and made the "incorrect" statement about BNP non white expulsion policy, I didn't know you from Adam, and tbh, I've been posting for too long on racist websites I mistook your comments for something that they were not.
I did ask for clarification which if given would have exacted an apology much sooner from me. It was only when VP made everything clear that I attempted to be concilliatory, but it didn't really improve because it seems that you feel the need win for what it's worth.

As for other agendas, that isn't my issue. They would have surfaced at some point as they invariably do on these types of forums.

 

[Pickman's model]

I did ask for clarification which if given would have exacted an apology much sooner from me.

= it's always someone else's fault

 

[MrA]

= it's always someone else's fault

This where I conceded the point.

Here's where I post to butchers again and his reply without giving a reason why he disagreed, that's vague isn't it?

So with his lack of clarity he asked for clarity from me, which I obliged.

Then he makes this post restating the point I had already conceded, this appears as though he's just point scoring for the sake of being a dick, moving on to argue what recent is or isn't without stating a position of his own.

I threw out olive branches throughout this thread but you and he just ignored them as you went out of your way to be hostile.

I'm not going to labour this any further, I shouldn't have flamed or made insults to people I don't know is pretty dumb, but it was alchohol fuelled, I still can't fathom why I called Lenin a cunt either.

But if you want some kind of victory from this then I'm not bothered, it's yours.

 

[ViolentPanda]

... I still can't fathom why I called Lenin a cunt either.

Because you believe that Macca wrote the better songs?

 

[Pickman's model]

Because you believe that Macca wrote the better songs?

maybe a harrison fan

 

[Zaskar]

Mr A - you seem unable to see that it was precisely your being in the wrong and the defensive justifications you tried to introduce following on from that (that i'm BNP etc) that started everything off - that wasn't just some irrelevant side issue. You acted appallingly and opened the door for all the other shit - the people piggybacking on your posts with their own long standing agendas - agendas you may not be able to spot but which longer standing members here are more than aware of (in brief you were manupilated by them).

You started off offering opinion on the possibility of Nick griffin being jailed, i responded sensibly and informatively. You then suggested that forcible repatriation is BNP policy, i told you - correctly as you say you now concede - that it is not. You then suggested i might be BNP thereby poisoning any attempts at further discussion.

This is a situation of your own making and it genuinely beggars belief that you really are trying to blame it on anyone else. I even decided to just ignore all the shit and went back to responding to your posts in the orignal manner just to move the issue on, and instead of acting in like manner in order to achieve the same you re-appeared frothing at the mouth calling me (and others) cunts, twats and twisted bitches etc out of the blue.

You are a cunt.