BNP leader faces jail!!

[The Black Hand]

My "guesses" are informed through your previous utterances on this site over several years and several identities, so it's hardly "projection".

But you do not know and could never know the answer VP, that is why it is projection. Assuming things is fraught with difficulties, and imho impossibilities.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I have to agree, intellectual prowess is not displayed by trying to create an homogenous approach, the 'real world' simply isn't like that.

I DONT mind people " trying to create an homogenous approach", as that is A approach. What I believe is unacceptable, is butch, pick, vp etc then trying to destroy and villify different point's of view, that don't comply with what they demmand. Regularly the anarchists are eletist and arogant.

This IS NOT to say they can't critisise other approach's. That's fine. But there has to come a point when you agree to fraternally agree to disagree. This, they apear, not capable of.

Hopefully in real life they are not as thick as they seem on here. Though my real life experience's of anarchist's are equally sectarian.

 

[The39thStep]

But you do not know and could never know the answer VP, that is why it is projection. Assuming things is fraught with difficulties, and imho impossibilities.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Butchers

With VP, Pick etc.

 

[MrA]

E hem!

You're not loony are you?

Your right, but have no chance of challenging their arrogant elitist 'my way or the highway' approach to anti fascism this thread was partialy meant to delineate. http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=295431

A good thread, there seems to be a common theme regarding Butcher and VP, what is their problem?

 

[TremulousTetra]

You're not loony are you?

Yup. Paid up member. So don't think this silly forum represents the left. www.ResistanceMP3.org.uk

A good thread, there seems to be a common theme regarding Butcher and VP, what is their problem?

In my experience, it's something perculiar to british anarchism, I've not been able to put my finger on, beyond noting their martyr complex and tendency to conspiracy theories.

 

[audiotech]

 

[Pickman's model]

I DONT mind people " trying to create an homogenous approach", as that is A approach. What I believe is unacceptable, is butch, pick, vp etc then trying to destroy and villify different point's of view, that don't comply with what they demmand. Regularly the anarchists are eletist and arogant.

This IS NOT to say they can't critisise other approach's. That's fine. But there has to come a point when you agree to fraternally agree to disagree. This, they apear, not capable of.

Hopefully in real life they are not as thick as they seem on here. Though my real life experience's of anarchist's are equally sectarian.

my experience of you is that you're a thick as pigshit know-nothing with the political nous of a backward gnat.

 

[MrA]

my experience of you is that you're a thick as pigshit know-nothing with the political nous of a backward gnat.

Riiiiiiight on cue!

 

[MrA]

Yup. Paid up member. So don't think this silly forum represents the left.

I don't, forums tend to be eclectic. It was aimed at VP and Butchers who appear to be vociferous in their approach to debating anti racism. IMO, for what it's worth to them, they'd be better served taking a more conciliatory approach, the only posts on the matter that I actually take note of are TBH,VP and yours.

www.ResistanceMP3.org.uk In my experience, it's something perculiar to british anarchism, I've not been able to put my finger on, beyond noting their martyr complex and tendency to conspiracy theories.

*awaits teh inevitable*

 

[Pickman's model]

On the one hand you state that the BNP do not have a racist or fascist manifesto and constitution, then in the next breath you say that it's obvious they do.

in words it would be hard to improve on...

Please link to where I have done this, or as I suspect you're a fucking liar.

i'm getting a bit bored of your constant evasions so put up, or, as you promised you would if shown up as a liar, fuck off.

 

[TremulousTetra]

in words it would be hard to improve on...i'm getting a bit bored of your constant evasions so put up, or, as you promised you would if shown up as a liar, fuck off.

coming from a conspiracy theorist and proven liar, that post is the most amateur trolling.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I don't, forums tend to be eclectic. It was aimed at VP and Butchers who appear to be vociferous in their approach to debating anti racism. IMO, for what it's worth to them, they'd be better served taking a more conciliatory approach, the only posts on the matter that I actually take note of are TBH,VP and yours.

Do you know that pink gay nazi character that Al Murray does, that is so over the top, it could never exist, well that reminds me of butchers. No one can have such a Napoleon complex in real life. (except pickman of course, but he is more yozzer hughes insane )

*awaits teh inevitable*

no chance, they haven't got the ball's, they know it's all true.

 

[MrA]

in words it would be hard to improve on...i'm getting a bit bored of your constant evasions so put up, or, as you promised you would if shown up as a liar, fuck off.

Can you hear that? It's the sound of the toilet flushing as your credibility disappears round the Ubend.

And what is it I'm evading exactly? It all seems a bit cloak and dagger, you do realise this is a forum?

 

[JimW]

I don't, forums tend to be eclectic. It was aimed at VP and Butchers who appear to be vociferous in their approach to debating anti racism. IMO, for what it's worth to them, they'd be better served taking a more conciliatory approach, the only posts on the matter that I actually take note of are TBH,VP and yours...

Not sure why you think you and your particular predilections are the yardstick by which useful debate should be measured. You've had a ten page or whatever it is sulk now because someone's made a (correct) point about a topic apparently close to your heart that's rubbed you up the wrong way, and based on that you're constructing this frankly embarrassing narrative of right and wrong approaches that's in fact more of a defence of your own bruised ego, aided and abetted by various of the more incoherent users of these boards who have similar personality issues. Get over it, for fuck's sake.

 

[The Black Hand]

I don't, forums tend to be eclectic. It was aimed at VP and Butchers who appear to be vociferous in their approach to debating anti racism. IMO, for what it's worth to them, they'd be better served taking a more conciliatory approach, the only posts on the matter that I actually take note of are TBH,VP and yours.

*awaits teh inevitable*

I do find it strange that ideological purists have such a confrontational approach to people on their own side e.g. Mr A. When AFAIK the anti fascist purists do not have such an antagonistic attiude/practice to the BNP. Certainly the 'softly softly' approach to the BNP now they are 'oh so democratic' according to some, is not replicated with a softly softly approach to other anti fascists. That is a contradiction.

Certainly I am unaware of antagonistic practice towards the BNP, and if such evidence should exist I would like to see it.

And crap one liners like 'fek the BNP' do not count, I was talking about serious evidence and I am aware of the spat with Okgirl, but I was looking for rather more than one liners as I said, and by eg. Butch.

 

[The Black Hand]

Not sure why you think you and your particular predilections are the yardstick by which useful debate should be measured. You've had a ten page or whatever it is sulk now because someone's made a (correct) point about a topic apparently close to your heart that's rubbed you up the wrong way, and based on that you're constructing this frankly embarrassing narrative of right and wrong approaches that's in fact more of a defence of your own bruised ego, aided and abetted by various of the more incoherent users of these boards who have similar personality issues. Get over it, for fuck's sake.

Wot a load of shite. Your version of dry non committal anti fascism has been humiliated and you still are refusing to see that there are problems. The 'in crowd are always right, no matter what'. That is why you and your politics are fucked and will remain fucked cos you are not willing to engage with others.

I told Butch and others already to 'get over it', you clearly haven't read it and are late on the scene. (goes to find post).

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10194990&postcount=572

 

[Pickman's model]

Can you hear that? It's the sound of the toilet flushing as your credibility disappears round the Ubend.

And what is it I'm evading exactly? It all seems a bit cloak and dagger, you do realise this is a forum?

i will keep this in short words as you seem unable to take in long ones. you said i said - in one post - that the bnp manifesto and constitution was and wasn't racist. i deny this and have asked you to point out the post where you saw this. you have so far been unable to do this, leading me to surmise that you are a

fucking liar

perhaps you could link to the offending post, so that we can marvel at it. otherwise there could be no doubt that you are a

fucking liar

 

[Pickman's model]

coming from a conspiracy theorist and proven liar, that post is the most amateur trolling.

coming from someone who has been unable to say, when questioned, which conspiracy theory i am supposed to believe in, that's a bit rich. now, let's see you link to a lie i've told.

 

[JimW]

Wot a load of shite. Your version of dry non committal anti fascism has been humiliated and you still are refusing to see that there are problems. The 'in crowd are always right, no matter what'. That is why you and your politics are fucked and will remain fucked cos you are not willing to engage with others.

I told Butch and others already to 'get over it', you clearly haven't read it and are late on the scene. (goes to find post).

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10194990&postcount=572

If I need advice from a bourgeois academic I'll be sure to look you up, Dr.

 

[The Black Hand]

If I need advice from a bourgeois academic I'll be sure to look you up, Dr.

Guess what, you are wrong, again. I do have a Phd, but the 'bourgeois academic' bit is the false part of what you write. Though I can see why you would like it to be true.

 

[JimW]

Nah, I don't give a monkey's either way. Do find it a bit of a chuckle that you think you're the sole keeper of the flame of all that is working class. My experience has been that a bit of vigorous debate has been the bread and butter of working class politics all my life and far healthier than your various snide accusations and more useful than your long and rambling articles written in the mode of the bourgeois academy. I'm sure you're a cracking bloke beyond that though.

 

[Pickman's model]

Guess what, you are wrong, again. I do have a Phd, but the 'bourgeois academic' bit is the false part of what you write. Though I can see why you would like it to be true.

will the next issue of 'capital and class' see you represented on the contents page?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Nah, I don't give a monkey's either way. Do find it a bit of a chuckle that you think you're the sole keeper of the flame of all that is working class. My experience has been that a bit of vigorous debate has been the bread and butter of working class politics all my life and far healthier than your various snide accusations and more useful than your long and rambling articles written in the mode of the bourgeois academy. I'm sure you're a cracking bloke beyond that though.

"debate"? On u75? Where?
Sectarian bun fights yes, but debate, ha!

 

[TremulousTetra]

Nah, I don't give a monkey's either way. Do find it a bit of a chuckle that you think you're the sole keeper of the flame of all that is working class. My experience has been that a bit of vigorous debate has been the bread and butter of working class politics all my life and far healthier than your various snide accusations and more useful than your long and rambling articles written in the mode of the bourgeois academy. I'm sure you're a cracking bloke beyond that though.

If you honestly think that, you haven't understood a word he has said.

 

[TremulousTetra]

coming from someone who has been unable to say, when questioned, which conspiracy theory i am supposed to believe in, that's a bit rich. now, let's see you link to a lie i've told.

Don't pretend you've forgot!

 

[JimW]

"debate"? On u75? Where?
Sectarian bun fights yes, but debate, ha!

If you honestly think that, you haven't understood a word he has said.

So that's an accusation of sectarianism from a lad whose contribution here as far as I can tell is spamming recordings of the various gurus of his Trot groupuscule. I'll trust my own reading comprehension skills over yours in the light of that, matey, thanks all the same.

 

[TremulousTetra]

So that's an accusation of sectarianism from a lad whose contribution here as far as I can tell is spamming recordings of the various gurus of his Trot groupuscule. I'll trust my own reading comprehension skills over yours in the light of that, matey, thanks all the same.

Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion or the factions of a political movement. < fit's u75 anarchist's to a tee.

Me: spamer, maybe. partisan possibly. sectarian no, unless you include taking the piss.




Oh yes;

Nah, I don't give a monkey's either way. Do find it a bit of a chuckle that you think you're the sole keeper of the flame of all that is working class. My experience has been that a bit of vigorous debate has been the bread and butter of working class politics all my life and far healthier than your various snide accusations and more useful than your long and rambling articles written in the mode of the bourgeois academy. I'm sure you're a cracking bloke beyond that though.

His point is exactly the opposite to what you think, he's critcising Butch for thinking he's "the sole keeper of the flame of all that is" anti-fascism. As am I. ie http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=295431

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're not loony are you?

Of course he isn't.

A good thread, there seems to be a common theme regarding Butcher and VP, what is their problem?

My problem is with people who can't be arsed to look beyond the obvious when it comes to anti-fascism. I'm not impressed by rmp3's posting up of "resources" that turn out to be a series of links to stories and videos rather than hard data or hard analysis.
You see, to me anti-fascism isn't about milling around in a group of trots shouting slogans, or about administering a kicking. It's about trying to understand (beyond facile party-political reasoning) why things happen, and how they can be dealt with or mitigated, politically and physically, not just by "the left", the "ultra left", the "autonomists" or the "anarchists", but by anyone and everyone.
This is why I find rmp3 trite, and attica/The Black Hand unengaging: They claim not to be partisan in any way, but they are, for their own interpretations of "what needs to be done". It's top-down when it should be bottom-up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't, forums tend to be eclectic. It was aimed at VP and Butchers who appear to be vociferous in their approach to debating anti racism.

Is vociferousness a crime all of a sudden?
If it offends a few delicate sensibilities then I'm all for vociferousness. I've seen "official" anti-fascism/anti-racism come to be dominated by mimsy Trots who talk and talk and talk, but never do anything beyond shouting slogans, regurgitating the "no platform" position and waving banners. They alienate more hearts and minds than they win, and have helped marginalise anti-racist/anti-fascist action as an acceptable political strategy.

IMO, for what it's worth to them, they'd be better served taking a more conciliatory approach, the only posts on the matter that I actually take note of are TBH,VP and yours.

Frankly, conciliation be fucked. If someone talks shit about a subject you're better-informed than they about, do you just nod your head to keep the peace? I'm willing to bet you don't. You put them right. Now, you may do so diplomatically, or not so diplomatically, but what you don't do is let them carry on chatting shit, surely?