Black metal that is not politically dodge
- Thread starter Chick Webb
- Start date
xslavearcx
time for a nu-metal revival?
TruXta
earlier on in this thread you mentioned about how some of the lofi sound of black metal was in reaction to the 'polished' nature of DM, in particular floridan DM..
so im interested where do you stand on the debate? (open question to all posters)
for me floridan death metal stands far above black metal. and scott burns was the fucking best producer ever, really amazing brutal sound that defined an age. whats the point of that burzum sound in contradistinction?
earlier on in this thread you mentioned about how some of the lofi sound of black metal was in reaction to the 'polished' nature of DM, in particular floridan DM..
so im interested where do you stand on the debate? (open question to all posters)
for me floridan death metal stands far above black metal. and scott burns was the fucking best producer ever, really amazing brutal sound that defined an age. whats the point of that burzum sound in contradistinction?
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Nobody's mentioned Rotting Christ (Greece) yet. Outrageous. Not politically dodgy, as far as I'm aware. Importantly, they f-kin rock.
I strongly suggest hearing their latest, Kata Ton Daimona Eaytoy .. or, start with Theogonia (2007) and work back to Sanctus Diavolos.
(Don't bother with Aealo)
I'd also recommend A Forest of Stars (UK) if you like the more arty shoegazey end of BM. Not dodge, as far as I know.
I also happen to like Agalloch (USA), they were broadly black metal, their politics seem cool enough, and any of their full-length albums are worth hearing - because they're haunting, melancholy, atmospheric and darkly beautiful etc.
A band I know of (more in the hipster end of things) who are explicitly left-wing and still in the region of Black Metal are Light Bearer (UK).
I strongly suggest hearing their latest, Kata Ton Daimona Eaytoy .. or, start with Theogonia (2007) and work back to Sanctus Diavolos.
(Don't bother with Aealo)
I'd also recommend A Forest of Stars (UK) if you like the more arty shoegazey end of BM. Not dodge, as far as I know.
I also happen to like Agalloch (USA), they were broadly black metal, their politics seem cool enough, and any of their full-length albums are worth hearing - because they're haunting, melancholy, atmospheric and darkly beautiful etc.
A band I know of (more in the hipster end of things) who are explicitly left-wing and still in the region of Black Metal are Light Bearer (UK).
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
By the way (for anyone who doesn't know this) Gaahl is gay. Dunno how that affects one's perception of his politics (whatever he's said in the past)
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Can I also add Nocte Obducta? I love their music and honestly have no idea about their politics (IMO silence on the subject is fine; I look for actual statements and work on the principle of innocent till proven guilty...)
I'm going to add one other thing, an album I heard this year which is very anti-islamic - Seeds of Iblis (their album is called Anti Quran Rituals). From a european band, such blatant anti-islamic screaming would be ringing alarm bells but they're from Iraq .. which means they fit fair and square into the perfectly usual anti-religious pocket Black Metal has always worn...
I'm going to add one other thing, an album I heard this year which is very anti-islamic - Seeds of Iblis (their album is called Anti Quran Rituals). From a european band, such blatant anti-islamic screaming would be ringing alarm bells but they're from Iraq .. which means they fit fair and square into the perfectly usual anti-religious pocket Black Metal has always worn...
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Edit to reply:
I like the rawness, it's obvious they're really angry and that kind of passion is what makes Black Metal, for me.
Further edit (I'm clumsy)
The record strikes me as fairly old-school, which is probably why I like it. Most of the songs wouldn't be out of place on an early Immortal record.
I like the rawness, it's obvious they're really angry and that kind of passion is what makes Black Metal, for me.
Further edit (I'm clumsy)
The record strikes me as fairly old-school, which is probably why I like it. Most of the songs wouldn't be out of place on an early Immortal record.
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
True. It does stand to reason though that there's disaffected and angry youth in the middle east choosing to express itself via metal. I also understand that anyone playing this kind of thing in certain places is potentially in danger from the authorities (unlike in most of europe where freedom of expression is pretty much taken for granted) and I have respect for people actually sticking their necks out for their art - in the UK we def. have it easy (it's obviously one theory of why it's hard to verify identities of some of the band members of bands like Janaza or Seeds..)
I'm actually on a bit of a personal mission to hear as much new metal as I can find (pfft, 'afford' more like it) from the middle east; apart from the serious freedom of expression issues which those musicians often have to contend with I love music in arabic / persian scales (the Seeds.. album is a little disappointing in that respect actually) and i think that kind of tonality suits metal very very well.
Iran is also producing its fair share of excellent metal - 1000 funerals are more in a doom style, but Ekove Efrits is definitely blackened (and really f-kin psychedelic and original, no idea of his politics though) ... Sand Aura from Egypt are more deathy (and folky as well), but then Al Namrood (Saudi Arabia, I believe) are pretty full-on black metal. But these are the big names. It's hard to find a lot of the underground stuff and I don't have the cash to buy the records I'd like to...
mostly off topic!
/derail
I'm actually on a bit of a personal mission to hear as much new metal as I can find (pfft, 'afford' more like it) from the middle east; apart from the serious freedom of expression issues which those musicians often have to contend with I love music in arabic / persian scales (the Seeds.. album is a little disappointing in that respect actually) and i think that kind of tonality suits metal very very well.
Iran is also producing its fair share of excellent metal - 1000 funerals are more in a doom style, but Ekove Efrits is definitely blackened (and really f-kin psychedelic and original, no idea of his politics though) ... Sand Aura from Egypt are more deathy (and folky as well), but then Al Namrood (Saudi Arabia, I believe) are pretty full-on black metal. But these are the big names. It's hard to find a lot of the underground stuff and I don't have the cash to buy the records I'd like to...
mostly off topic!
/derail
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
back on topic, and for those who use Facebook - a friend of mine does this anti-NSBM page.
(edited link)
(edited link)
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TruXta
tired
Sorry this took so long.
Personally I'm a big fan of US DM and the Tampa/FL scene - Death and Morbid Angel were two of the bands that really got me into that scene alongside the Swedish DM of the time (Entombed, Carnage etc) - both scenes going for a fairly clean sound.
As for the BM that came out at the same time - at least in the case of Darkthrone it was, AFAIK, a conscious rejection of what they felt was a too clean, too commercially minded, too family-friendly turn. Like in other metal countries the demo-tape scene was massive and that raw, murky sound was something they wanted to emulate, using phrases like "true black metal" and so on to graft some sort of authenticity on to it. In their case it also harkened back to the punk/HC ethos of DIY - DT did their first album (not really a BM album) in Sunlight Studios in Stockholm, which was like the Morrissound of Scandinavia, and later rejected that whole thing as not really them. Seeing as DT were pretty damned influential at the time naturally a lot of the up and coming acts latched on to this way of doing things.
I like both sounds. I adore the Golden Age of US Death Metal stuff, but I also have a lot of time for the treble-heavy noisehell that came out in the 90s.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
xslavearcx said:
I meant to reply to this last night but it got too late...
I'm not sure it's necessarily a meaningful distinction any more, with the advent of completely digital recording technology at an easily-affordable price. You actually have to try quite hard to get a blurry, lo-fi sound when you record these days!
There are still some Black Metal acts around who seem to want it, and it's definitely still part of the aesthetic (I guess the use of ringing atonal open chords rather than fast shredding riffs makes a blurry sound less of an issue and if anything can serve to expand an otherwide thin and trebly sound) but early DM was just as muddy and indistinguishable as early BM (because of budget and equipment constraints mostly) - compare two early classics at random: Mayhem's De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas with Autopsy's Severed Survival; there's not much difference in the production.
These days Black Metal and Death Metal recordings tend to sound pretty clear (there's a sub-sub-clique of people who still want to make a fuzzy evil-sounding wall of noise, but Black Metal has evolved way beyond that by now); the aforementioned Nocte Obducta, Rotting Christ and A Forest of Stars all being good examples of BM produced with clarity.
For the record, I like clarity, and I like bass. So I'm picky about Black Metal, which is well-known for dispensing with both!
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TruXta
tired
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Fair enough, if you use a tape recorder - and some people still do, for this exact reason. Varg Vikernes is one of them!
But I think one of the reasons the BM aesthetic is becoming clearer is exactly because of the cheapness of digital eqpt these days; more people are using it, and something like this probably couldn't have been done with a tape recorder - there's too much in it that would probably be lost in a tape recording...
But I think one of the reasons the BM aesthetic is becoming clearer is exactly because of the cheapness of digital eqpt these days; more people are using it, and something like this probably couldn't have been done with a tape recorder - there's too much in it that would probably be lost in a tape recording...
TruXta
tired
For sure. And as you pointed out the aesthetic has moved on (not that it was all that dominant in the first place).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Review of that Wardruna gig (quietus) here. Seemed quite happy.
Very ropey (for journalistic/academic/political reasons)
This isn’t dubious folk nostalgia, it’s more like an attempt to re-enchant the world.
Reviewer doesn't get what runes are and why they are now politically important either.
Very ropey (for journalistic/academic/political reasons)
This isn’t dubious folk nostalgia, it’s more like an attempt to re-enchant the world.
Reviewer doesn't get what runes are and why they are now politically important either.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I forgot these guys before, which is ridiculous as they're one of my favourite bands in any style!
Psychedelic, atmospheric ''post''-metal, definitely of a blackened persuasion but a lot more than just that. No political statements available anywhere but according to Encyclopedia Metallum their motto is: "Oranssi Pazuzu makes music that invites all the arsonists and smokers to hold hands" ... whatever that means.
This ^up there^ is the first tune off their first full-length LP (from 2009), because that seems like a good place for anyone unfamiliar with their work to begin. Have fun!
Psychedelic, atmospheric ''post''-metal, definitely of a blackened persuasion but a lot more than just that. No political statements available anywhere but according to Encyclopedia Metallum their motto is: "Oranssi Pazuzu makes music that invites all the arsonists and smokers to hold hands" ... whatever that means.
This ^up there^ is the first tune off their first full-length LP (from 2009), because that seems like a good place for anyone unfamiliar with their work to begin. Have fun!
gawkrodger
Well-Known Member
woah, woah, woah. Sure I know him - is that Simon Lucas? Used to play drums in a few hardcore bands (Murder of Rosa Luxemburg circa. 2003/4ish). Was very much into BM then, but nothing seemingly dodgy about him aside from a few Burzum records. Loved Tolkien a little too much and was in a LOTR themed band called Shards of Narsil who were quite fun live, if a bit crap.
Having said that, he always seemed a bit of a jeb
gawkrodger
Well-Known Member
dodgy as fuck which is a shame as I quite like 'em
gawkrodger
Well-Known Member
and I'm listening to lots of post-bn/blackended shoegaze etc what the fuck ever you call it
Agalloch
Alcest
Les Discrets
Woods of Ypres
Gallowbraid
etc. All are great, none are dodgy
Agalloch
Alcest
Les Discrets
Woods of Ypres
Gallowbraid
etc. All are great, none are dodgy
It is indeed. He's just a bit more subtle than the other ones were. And the fact he was in a band called Murder of Rosa Luxemburg should've got alarm bells ringing (never heard of them tbh)
gawkrodger
Well-Known Member
ha, they rest of the people in Murder of.. are sound - I was always disappointed they were non-political third rate screamo (in the proper sense of the word) band, though did end up dropping the Rosa Luxemburg bit (and a bunch of their members) and went post-hardcore
Chick Webb
Countryfile and a can
Ok so the next thing is (and I will put it here like the neat and tidy person I am) what metal fest should I go to next year? I want to go to at least one. I don't care if it's miserable weather UK with brilliant bands, or some sort of resort in Europe where there's lovely scenery and bands I never heard of. I just don't want to walk into a place where there are a predominance of rightwing lads. Does anyone know the makeup of the various fests? I found the implicit ceasefire at the punk fest Rebellion gave me a bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to adhere to any fest where that shit is implied anymore.
MellySingsDoom
Decimated by the shrapnel of his rhetoric
Just caught this list, thanks to a heads-up in p&p. Two bands mentioned here on the "non-dodgy" list are objectionable:
Bathory - their leader person Quorthorn used to be a member of a gang who attacked immigrants in his local area.
Emperor - their former drummer Bard Eithun murdered a gay man in cold blood (it seems he deliberately went out to kill a gay person), and has expressed zero contrition for it (he's now been released after serving his sentence - think he might still be on parole conditions). Also, guitarist Samoth set up another band called Zyklon (how "transgressive" etc), and seems to be a complete imbecile w/regard to his political awareness.
Bathory - their leader person Quorthorn used to be a member of a gang who attacked immigrants in his local area.
Emperor - their former drummer Bard Eithun murdered a gay man in cold blood (it seems he deliberately went out to kill a gay person), and has expressed zero contrition for it (he's now been released after serving his sentence - think he might still be on parole conditions). Also, guitarist Samoth set up another band called Zyklon (how "transgressive" etc), and seems to be a complete imbecile w/regard to his political awareness.
TruXta
tired
Never heard about that before - got a source?
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