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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

i have told you what i've done. you've got the fucking memory of a goldfish.
Yeah....so why harp on about mine ffs. you cant be on these things hiding behind a pen name slating me fellah without me saying owt back. I advise people to stand up to bullies, having seen enough of them as a steward. Your behaviour in these matters is adding up to a campaign of harrassment and character assasination. You should really know better.
 
Yeah....so why harp on about mine ffs. you cant be on these things hiding behind a pen name slating me fellah without me saying owt back. I advise people to stand up to bullies, having seen enough of them as a steward. Your behaviour in these matters is adding up to a campaign of harrass,ment and character assasination. You should really know better.
what, fucking 6 or 7 posts? you've the skin of a blancmange.
 
what, fucking 6 or 7 posts? you've the skin of a blancmange.
In fact your behaviour is worse. Like being just outside the circle as the kicks go in...occasionally sticking the boot in. At least I know the chief protagonists in this charm offensive. You on the otherhand I dont know. You ask me for a forensic breakdown of NR and other stuff nd I get shirty about it. Can you not see why. Just for the record...what is it YOU personally dont think is kosher about what I wrote. You will have to take my word ..it was fuck all to do with Searchlight. An accusation that was levelled at me and still is which is blatantly false. If you peddle that I will never even attempt to give you what you want...or is there another agenda
 
In fact your behaviour is worse. Like being just outside the circle as the kicks go in...occasionally sticking out a boot in. At least I know the chief protagonists in this charm offensive. You on the otherhand I dont know. You ask me for a forensic breakdown of NR and other stuff nd I get shirty about it. Can you not see why. Just for the record...what is it YOU persoanlly dont thinks kosher about what I wrote. You will have to take my word ..it was fuck all to do with Searchlight. An accusation that was levelled at me and still is which is blatantly false. If you peddle that I will never even attempt to give you what you want...or is there another agenda
i've just asked whether the book's true. your reluctance to give a straight answer to a straight question doesn't fill me with confidence in the book's accuracy. yeh there's things in there that *could* have happened - all the stuff about bugging fash meetings, for example - but everyone knows that intelligence officers don't give away their tactics, techniques or procedures. if you do then the enemy gets wise to them. take for example the time when harry's place had a bit about how they tracked down the location of a pub the bnp used. since then the number of photos of socials and so on on bnp websites and blogs has delined significantly. so to me what's in nr doesn't ring true. is it true? or is it cobblers?
 
i've just asked whether the book's true. your reluctance to give a straight answer to a straight question doesn't fill me with confidence in the book's accuracy. yeh there's things in there that *could* have happened - all the stuff about bugging fash meetings, for example - but everyone knows that intelligence officers don't give away their tactics, techniques or procedures. if you do then the enemy gets wise to them. take for example the time when harry's place had a bit about how they tracked down the location of a pub the bnp used. since then the number of photos of socials and so on on bnp websites and blogs has delined significantly. so to me what's in nr doesn't ring true. is it true? or is it cobblers?
The bugging is bang on. I really can prove that and you can see/listen to it. And the bins and the guy inside, ask Redstorm hes seen a fair bit of stuff.The book has no false claims...yes it was a bit hoolie and I suppose I would have preferred another treatment but I stand by it. I also had differences with Dave but we were able to sort out something which I feel was worthwhile. Infact I left out a lot that would have as you say led to repurcussions for future work. You and the other people involved in this stuff against me have no idea what Ive been doing since I parted with Searchlight in 94. Believe me some of it has been very important in assisting the fight against fascism a lot of it abroad in places that really needed support. I found I could do a lot more offering my expertise without being answerable to organisations or otherwise. A method of working I will be expanding now Ive been made redundant. Can I just say it will be hard for me to get another job...a simple google is a lot faster than a CRB check. Also to add Im looking forward to being self reliant. Im not a fantasist Im a dedicated anti fascist who has seen how destructive fantasists and the like can be. Its up to you but if you want to see the hard evidence you will have to meet me. I think we should leave this thing alone for now on a public forum.
 
i've just asked whether the book's true. your reluctance to give a straight answer to a straight question doesn't fill me with confidence in the book's accuracy. yeh there's things in there that *could* have happened - all the stuff about bugging fash meetings, for example - but everyone knows that intelligence officers don't give away their tactics, techniques or procedures. if you do then the enemy gets wise to them. take for example the time when harry's place had a bit about how they tracked down the location of a pub the bnp used. since then the number of photos of socials and so on on bnp websites and blogs has delined significantly. so to me what's in nr doesn't ring true. is it true? or is it cobblers?

I can vouch for the bugging of fash meetings. I have heard the originals and have a number of copies of bugged Manchester and Salford BNP meetings from around the late 80s to the mid 90s.

I should really put them on the Anti-Fascist Archive :oops:
 
Ok Pickmans Model. Name and full political CV.
Top Cat Name and full political CV.
Otherwise keep stum about what other cunts get up to...

...Its called earning that right...!


That's just silly mate, calling people out to personally identify themselves is not proof of the correctness of your argument, nor is it proof that they have no personal CV visa vie anti-fascism.

You have written your personal account of your involvement in anti-fascism via No Retreat. You stand or fall by that account. What you cannot expect is blind allegaiance and/or a complete acceptance of everything you and Dave said in NR.

That others do not seek to publish their memoirs is not evidence of them not being involved in the struggle. I just don't get the logic of calling people out like that? What purpose does it serve when they do not avail themselves of a publisher, other than to convince yourself that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

I don't find the personalisation of every argument about anti-fascism to be a satisfactory method of political debate.
 
I can vouch for the bugging of fash meetings. I have heard the originals and have a number of copies of bugged Manchester and Salford BNP meetings from around the late 80s to the mid 90s.

I should really put them on the Anti-Fascist Archive :oops:

I can also vouch for Big Nose's bugging of fash meetings... I heard tapes of Manc BNP meetings that he'd bugged many years back.

Plus... he taught me how to go about it, which was a handy wee skill to pass on to other anti-fascists.:)
 
Missed this for time round but it needs to be tackled before in hardens into urban myth, and I don't mean on here. This is the notion, soon to be paraded elsewhere I suspect, that eventually AFA faded away, and this was due in part to RA's beligerent approach. No basis in fact.

AFA was still growing when the BNP jacked. In fact that AFA was still visibly growing particularly in places like the West Midlands (the last area to be organised following relaunch in '89) the whiteman's redoubt, was the key reason the BNP swerved away from street confrontation. Accordingly the lazy allegation that 'so many activists eventually found RA in particular hard to work with', is once again found to be without foundation.

As for the claim that those who AFA disagreed being derided as cowards and knaves and so on rather implies without quiet saying it that the these unfortunates were falsely labelled. But no evidence is presented to back this insinuation up. So why does the unnamed reviewer for AFA Ireland present it as 'a problem'?

Subliminally, perhaps readers are meant to draw that conclusion that the most celebrated example of nefarious activity mentioned in BTF was also a result of some prior political falling out. Instead the falling out was as a consequence of the aforementioned 'nefarious activity'. This dosen't stop Louise Purbeck in the foreword to her book brazenly stating that the hostility to 'No Retreat' can be put down purely to 'sectarianism', the inference being that Hann was in fact representative of a rival political tendency in order to explain away his untimely departure from the organisation of which it is again implied he was 'a/the leading light' or alternatively 'founding member'.

And even when the on line RA archives now prove conclusively that he hadn't even joined RA as a supporting which is to say prospective member (no voting rights) until sometime in 1987, Purbeck seems to want to extend his CV considerably, to not only playing a key role in the founding of AFA two years earlier, but also, perhaps carelessly, allowing the inference to be drawn that, Hann, along with Tlizsy, had also been active in the ANL squads an additional five years hence.

With the recent boast of No Retreat being translated into a number of languages and a second revisionist effort on the way, not to mention the mooted Tilzey movie or the upcoming Gable memoir, to still claim that it all amounts to little more than a 'personal spat' does begin to look complacent at best.

What in fact we are witnessing here is a determined re-writing of history and recent history at that.


It's also the case that AFA in different areas and regions 'wound down' in parallel with the local fash's appetite for continued street activities, which wasn't necessarily at the same pace as London. The BNP had given up the streets, but the acceptance of this policy was sometimes uneven, depending upon how enthusiastically particular regions had embraced the new strategy, or had been previously reliant on street elements. On the whole though, the BNP were disciplined and most of their streetfighting element had been sidelined by 1998, although there were still occasional skirmishes.

It is, therefore, a complete fiction to suggest that AFA left the battlefield before the fash, because AFA activists in some areas were required for another couple of years to gently persuade the BNP that the jig was up.
 
That's just silly mate, calling people out to personally identify themselves is not proof of the correctness of your argument, nor is it proof that they have no personal CV visa vie anti-fascism.

You have written your personal account of your involvement in anti-fascism via No Retreat. You stand or fall by that account.

That others do not seek to publish their memoirs is not evidence of them not being involved in the struggle. I just don't get the logic of calling people out like that? What purpose does it serve when they do not avail themselves of a publisher, other than to convince yourself that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Bignose1 has a perfectly understandable issue here with the many posters who have over the years abused him over his record, mainly his work with Searchlight, but also the veracity of the overall account in NR. Given that some accusers/critics of Bignose1 have themselves got excellent past records in the anti fascist struggle, their views quite rightly deserve some attention and consideration. Others though are just people who like a good witchhunt,and a windup, but have no record of struggle at all. These people simply aren't owed any sort of explanation or justification from an anti fascist with a considerable history like Bignose1. Sorry, but they just aren't. Who gives a fuck what they think.

I can testify that the overall picture in NR of the anti fascist struggle is a very accurate one. Not every event is 100% clinically accurate (from my aged recollections) in terms of exact personnel or detail happenings, but how could they be after so many years ? And obviously the interpretation of events, particularly with Searchlight and the end period/dispute surrounding AFA is massively coloured by competing viewpoints. Holding either set of positions doesn't automatically make either of the "sides" pure evil though. It was just specific political/organisational dispute - with all the " unfortunate things said that can never be unsaid by now ex comrades" issues that bedevil the Left. We all need to move on.

I think when Bignose1 asks for an indication from persistant critics like Pickman of what his own participation in the anti fascist struggle might have been, or not, a simple statement like "10 years in RA, arrested 3 times, present at such and such a known event", or whatever, would suffice , not a detailed CV. Or of course " never been in a physical confrontation situation with fascists at any time.. I just sit in front of my computer abusing olde anti fascists". With our adopted aliases which one it is is just unknown. "None of his business" you might say ? Well if that's true,I say, " just fuck off and dont deign to query or call out Bignose on his considerable anti fascist record".
 
Bignose1 has a perfectly understandable issue here with the many posters who have over the years abused him over his record, mainly his work with Searchlight, but also the veracity of the overall account in NR. Given that some accusers/critics of Bignose1 have themselves got excellent past records in the anti fascist struggle, their views quite rightly deserve some attention and consideration. Others though are just people who like a good witchhunt,and a windup, but have no record of struggle at all. These people simply aren't owed any sort of explanation or justification from an anti fascist with a considerable history like Bignose1. Sorry, but they just aren't. Who gives a fuck what they think.

I can testify that the overall picture in NR of the anti fascist struggle is a very accurate one. Not every event is 100% clinically accurate (from my aged recollections) in terms of exact personnel or detail happenings, but how could they be after so many years ? And obviously the interpretation of events, particularly with Searchlight and the end period/dispute surrounding AFA is massively coloured by competing viewpoints. Holding either set of positions doesn't automatically make either of the "sides" pure evil though. It was just specific political/organisational dispute - with all the " unfortunate things said that can never be unsaid by now ex comrades" issues that bedevil the Left. We all need to move on.

I think when Bignose1 asks for an indication from persistant critics like Pickman of what his own participation in the anti fascist struggle might have been, or not, a simple statement like "10 years in RA, arrested 3 times, present at such and such a known event", or whatever, would suffice , not a detailed CV. Or of course " never been in a physical confrontation situation with fascists at any time.. I just sit in front of my computer abusing olde anti fascists". With our adopted aliases which one it is is just unknown. "None of his business" you might say ? Well if that's true,I say, " just fuck off and dont deem to query or call out Bignose on his considerable anti fascist record".
what does 'don't deem to query or call out bignose' mean? it doesn't make sense. do you in fact know what deem means?
 
Bignose1 has a perfectly understandable issue here with the many posters who have over the years abused him over his record, mainly his work with Searchlight, but also the veracity of the overall account in NR. Given that some accusers/critics of Bignose1 have themselves got excellent past records in the anti fascist struggle, their views quite rightly deserve some attention and consideration. Others though are just people who like a good witchhunt,and a windup, but have no record of struggle at all. These people simply aren't owed any sort of explanation or justification from an anti fascist with a considerable history like Bignose1. Sorry, but they just aren't. Who gives a fuck what they think.

I can testify that the overall picture in NR of the anti fascist struggle is a very accurate one. Not every event is 100% clinically accurate (from my aged recollections) in terms of exact personnel or detail happenings, but how could they be after so many years ? And obviously the interpretation of events, particularly with Searchlight and the end period/dispute surrounding AFA is massively coloured by competing viewpoints. Holding either set of positions doesn't automatically make either of the "sides" pure evil though. It was just specific political/organisational dispute - with all the " unfortunate things said that can never be unsaid by now ex comrades" issues that bedevil the Left. We all need to move on.

I think when Bignose1 asks for an indication from persistant critics like Pickman of what his own participation in the anti fascist struggle might have been, or not, a simple statement like "10 years in RA, arrested 3 times, present at such and such a known event", or whatever, would suffice , not a detailed CV. Or of course " never been in a physical confrontation situation with fascists at any time.. I just sit in front of my computer abusing olde anti fascists". With our adopted aliases which one it is is just unknown. "None of his business" you might say ? Well if that's true,I say, " just fuck off and dont deem to query or call out Bignose on his considerable anti fascist record".


How do you know this Ayatollah, that this thread is populated to any extent by "...people who like a good witchhunt, and a windup, but have no record of struggle at all." ???

I didn't know who the fcuk you were (and why should I?) until I made offline enquiries. Your contribution to the anti-fascist struggle probably ended as mine's began, so how do you know who's who here and which are the right 'uns and wrong 'uns? And, given that you were not active during Hann's period of political activity, how can you "..testify that the overall picture in NR of the anti fascist struggle is a very accurate one." ???

No Retreat contains the personal accounts of two individual anti-fascists, one of whom goes back to the original squads, the other with AFA. IMHO it bears little comparison politically with the more objective accounts contained in Beating The Fascists. No Retreat falls into the 'hooli-porn' genre precisely because it is subjective, personal and less political than the wider ranging BTF. That's not to say that it's not a good read, but it is not a definitive account of AFA's political work. Rather it is the subjective account of two individuals and their approximation of what they believed their personal roles to be within the respective organisations. And, as such, it opens itself up to challenge and criticism because of its subjectivity. The vast majority of the criticism of NR has been leveled at Dave Hann's 'half' of the book. There have been criticisms of some of Big Nose's version of events, but there has also been an acknowledgement of his role as an anti-fascist and former squad member. What cannot be overcome is the general mistrust that existed between AFA and Searchlight, for whom BN1 worked until the mid-1990's, after his involvement with the squad.

As a former member of the national committees of both Red Action and AFA, I believe that there was a case to answer with regard to Hann. I have no reason to doubt the outcome of the enquiry into Dave's activities and, despite regarding him as a personal friend, I voted for his expulsion from both RA and AFA. His personal position was untenable, which should be obvious to anyone with even a modicum of understanding of the situation.
 
I think when Bignose1 asks for an indication from persistant critics like Pickman of what his own participation in the anti fascist struggle might have been, or not, a simple statement like "10 years in RA, arrested 3 times, present at such and such a known event", or whatever, would suffice , not a detailed CV. Or of course " never been in a physical confrontation situation with fascists at any time.. I just sit in front of my computer abusing olde anti fascists". With our adopted aliases which one it is is just unknown. "None of his business" you might say ? Well if that's true,I say, " just fuck off and dont deem to query or call out Bignose on his considerable anti fascist record".
i was never in ra. i knew one or two people who were back in the day, and have met more since: all of them sound. much of what i've been involved with went on long after you decided to call it a day.

but why the fuck should i provide details for the likes of you, when it seems you won't for anyone else?
 
a simple statement like "10 years in RA, arrested 3 times, present at such and such a known event",

Sometimes, getting nicked may have been an occupational hazard but the harsh truth is that it was usually (including in yours and bignose's case for Rochdale) because of impulsiveness/impetuosity and more of a sign of stupidity, of losing the run of yourself and of failure than something to boast about. That is not to judge or denigrate anybody who did get nicked (and fair play to those who did the jail) it's just the truth.

I was always proud of the exceptionally low rate of arrests for RA people (save for one or two repeat offenders/banker bets:))... of the ability of people to calmly walk from a scene of mayhem without attracting the attention of OB whose peripheral vision was attuned to detect casualties (that can't fight back) and runners. Some of the fraggle rockers on the other hand ... they wore arrests like medals... and were useful idiots because of this.

I did 10 years in and around RA... was present at many large and small battles and am happy to report I was never arrested (except once for drunken buffoonery many hours after the political activity).
 
Others though are just people who like a good witchhunt,and a windup, but have no record of struggle at all.

behave yourself FFS :facepalm:

Firstly, you have NO way of knowing if this is the case or not. None.

Secondly, it makes you sound like one of those terminally boring ex-servicemen... 'What did you do in the war, eh? Nothing, that's what! Sat here on your arses while me and the lads was in the trenches... blah blah'. To extend this logic I would have no right to comment on Afghanistan or Iraq because I am not a veteran. Dangerous road, that one.

Thirdly, it just looks like willy-waving.
 
Funny how people give it ten-nil on here when if youse were having a pint itd be a fairly civilised discussion trying to work it out.
 
Funny how people give it ten-nil on here when if youse were having a pint itd be a fairly civilised discussion trying to work it out.

How little you know :)

Having said that there is nobody on this thread with whom I personally could not share a polite conversation and a nice cup of tea (apart from 'Sumud' who, I suspect, is somebody else's very dark alter ego).
 
both books are valuable for different reasons, morale boosts, documentation, propaganda etc. both books will be/can be criticised by others. this is what happens with books as they are in the public domain. every writer expects this. there are few enough books on militant anti-fascism as it is. did i mention mine?
 
malatesta32 said:
both books are valuable for different reasons, morale boosts, documentation, propaganda etc. both books will be/can be criticised by others. this is what happens with books as they are in the public domain. every writer expects this. there are few enough books on militant anti-fascism as it is. did i mention mine?

I hope you've included content that will upset the witch hunters and windup merchants.
 
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