DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
chuffed again.
BBC - Owen Jones
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
He's definitely using the word chuffed to wind people up. No doubt about it. 
the button
out on the kocker
Metachuffed.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What a nice gesture and way forward for the class - let more working class MPs be inscribed upon the battle flag!
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
"The other half to Disabled People Against The Cuts" at least worthy of a fist bump though?
chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted gutted chuffed gutted chuffed gutted
bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off bore off
kavenism
Progressive misanthrope
Saw Owen at the 10 years since the Iraq war debate at Goldsmiths yesterday evening. He was on fine form but didn't quite hit the hights of Mehdi Hasan who made David Aaronovitch look very daft. At one point Hasan seemed to goad Aaronovitch into agreeing that the war wasn't worth it, a motion he was there to argue against! Aside from those flourishes the rest was a bit of a pointless spectacle.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Mark Steel is in support of this Owen Jones plan.
https://twitter.com/mrmarksteel/status/293318950777929728
https://twitter.com/mrmarksteel/status/293318950777929728
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
When you read those words so many times they stop having any meaning
He's definitely using the word chuffed to wind people up. No doubt about it.
I once knew a guy who always wanted to get killed by a train. When it finally happened, he was chuffed to bits.
binka
!!!!!!!!!
thats the best post youve ever made
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I entirely endorse his points here:
http://www.hamhighbroadway.co.uk/ne...battle_to_save_whittington_hospital_1_1880035
http://www.hamhighbroadway.co.uk/ne...battle_to_save_whittington_hospital_1_1880035
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Well, Jonesy is rather babyfaced.
magneze
🎧
Interview here:
http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/5556
http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/5556
Interesting quote there
Whilst there's nothing wrong with being populist, personally I would prefer it if Owen Jones was a bit more clinical at times, a bit more dense and involved. That populist editorial way of writing really tired me out in Chavs by the end.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I don't know if it's the publication by Oxbridge students for Oxbridge students or if he means it but this
1. Germany's industrial strategy moves working-class people nowhere except divide and rule within Germany as well as beyond.
2. The budget won't look after itself if all other nations around are imposing austerity and you go for an extension of the state sector to solve unemployment... the budget will collapse as the rich counter-strike via the financial markets increasing the cost of borrowing for the state, precipitating a capital shut-down and investment of funds abroad. The battle only just begins when you try to solve unemployment.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
depends on what you mean by an extension of the state sector. If the extra spending is on useful infrastructure such as the severn barrage, national grid, HS2, rail electrification, Cross Rail, or social housing, then there's no reason for the markets to be concerned about loaning money to the government to fund that spending because the spending will result in assets that act as security for those debts, and income generators once built - whether in public control (my preference) or flogged to the private sector.
If it's just being spent on more petty beurocrats pushing paper around, though then you've probably have a point.
The main reason that UK companies keep losing the contracts for the major building projects that actually are going on in this country is that the government keeps insisting on not actually borrowing to finance it themselves, but packaging up the deal and making the company provide both the finance and deliver the project, which Siemens etc can do at much lower interest rates than their competitor UK companies. This is the sort of thing that would need sorting out for any UK infrastructure package to really be successful in pulling the UK out of recession.
I'd agree though that it would all work far better if the whole of Europe, or even the world dumped austerity together and went for a well targeted keynesian growth strategy instead.
Steel Icarus
we move
Seems our Owen pulled out of an appearance on 5 live with seconds to spare, having been told there's a strike today. Oops. Well done to him for pulling out, obv, but ffs. You'd think Britain's foremost hard-left journalist would have been aware of it, eh.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
He'd probably just woken up, hadn't he?
Steel Icarus
we move
He'd been "away", busy at an anti-austerity conference in Dublin.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Chuffed yet again, this time at Firebox, with a musician.
"Phil Marriott @phildrumsUK
Chuffed to meet @OwenJones84 at @FireboxLdn http://moby.to/jumnkx
Retweeted by Owen Jones"
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Accepting praise from vile people like Mehdi Hasan:
Mehdi Hasan @mehdirhasan
The must-read column of the day: @OwenJones84 on the failure of Osbornomics and what Labour needs to do: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...their-alternative-to-osbornomics-8508690.html …
@OwenJones84: @mehdirhasan Cheers Mehdi
For this desperate article:
"Another way. And yet Labour do have the outlines of an alternative. When Ed Balls stood for the Labour leadership, he launched a now-vindicated attack on austerity. His Bloomberg speech is a founding document of British neo-Keynesianism. He accepted he was taking on a “consensus”: just as in the 1930s, collective insanity is still insanity. He warned austerity would be “counterproductive”, “tipping us back into recession”."
Ed Balls enforced austerity massively under the Brown government. His speech was dire and lies.
"Imagine if Clement Attlee’s government “had decided that the first priority was to reduce the debts built up in the war”, he asked us: there would be no NHS, no rebuilt railways and housing, no welfare state. If only he had stuck unrelentingly to this script."
It was a weak speech.
"As Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman put it, the Tories’ cynical comparison between national debt and household debt makes no sense because “our debt is mostly money we owe to each other... Your spending is my income, and my spending is your income.” I become poorer because you spend less; you become poorer because I’m spending less, and so the debt grows. The Tories’ sneers about the borrowing habits of their opponents don’t even make sense: they are borrowing, not as a temporary price to lift us out of economic disaster, but as the cost of failed policies.
Last year – before the full calamity of Tory austerity had been exposed – YouGov found 45 per cent of us believed the Government should switch to focusing on growth “even if this means the deficit stays longer or gets worse”. But Osborne’s failure must not lead to yet another bout of austerity under Labour."
Paul Krugman is a vicious centrist, his approach is vile. This is what he is cited for.
"And there’s a clear moral to this story: When the private sector is frantically trying to pay down debt, the public sector should do the opposite, spending when the private sector can’t or won’t. By all means, let’s balance our budget once the economy has recovered — but not now. The boom, not the slump, is the right time for austerity."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/opinion/krugman-the-austerity-agenda.html
Impose austerity during a boom. Lunacy. It's blaming governments for not cutting during the long (wage-stagnant) boom.
Osbourne's failure will lead to precisely another bout of austerity under Labour.
This part is just mad: "The Tories’ sneers about the borrowing habits of their opponents don’t even make sense: they are borrowing, not as a temporary price to lift us out of economic disaster, but as the cost of failed policies."
Labour borrowing (and austerity) is better than Conservative borrowing because apparently Labour doesn't have failed policies.
"Pushing growth through house-building, an industrial strategy and genuinely publicly run banks; hiking taxes on the wealthy – who, contrary to myth, studies show do not flee as a result; reducing welfare spending by no longer subsidising private landlords and badly paying bosses: here can be the basis of Labour’s alternative. Osbornomics is sunk – and, if Cameron et al are ignominiously thrown on to the scrapheap of history in 2015, it must not be resuscitated."
Taking each in turn:
House-building.
Labour is enforcing the rundown in construction in local government. Camden Council's Labour leader says "lack of available housing in Camden will mean that more people will soon have to consider moving from the borough and in some cases London entirely.” to explain their plans to shift around 800 unemployed household council tenants to councils north.
Industrial strategy. Jones doesn't explain it, Labour doesn't explain it. It's just code for import controls and soft economic nationalism, or redistribution within working class close a plant in Berkshire, offer tax breaks in Monmouthshire and industrial relocation described as 'British jobs for British workers'.
Genuinely publicly run banks.
Labour had their chance to do this in 2008-2010 and failed spectacularly to the extent that the "publicly subsidised" banks are as destructive as the "private" ones.
Subsidising private landlords.
Exactly what Labour intends to carry on doing.
Subsidising badly paying bosses.
What the 'welfare state' under Labour and Conservatives has been doing for forty years.
Hiking taxes on the wealthy – who, contrary to myth, studies show do not flee as a result
They don't flee or attempt to flee simply because their taxes are not hiked very much. When they are properly hiked like in Cuba they do try and flee, or at least send away their money.
The political dimension is interesting. Setting up a new non-Labour party is like losing your mind.
"he suggested I would lead the left-wing “Green and Justice Party” which would benefit from Labour’s collapse: if I was to lose my mind and set up some new party, it would certainly have a catchier name than that."
Here he is desperately giving advice to Labour, please, please don't let what happened to PSOE/PASOK happen to you, do your betrayals and lies more sensibly, more embracing, more cunningly, don'y be so brazen: "In Greece, PASOK unleashed self-defeating austerity; it now languishes on single-figures in the opinion polls. In Spain, the Socialists were booted out in 2011 not because their right-wing opponents won more votes (they barely did), but because their own supporters sat on their hands."
Mehdi Hasan @mehdirhasan
The must-read column of the day: @OwenJones84 on the failure of Osbornomics and what Labour needs to do: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...their-alternative-to-osbornomics-8508690.html …
@OwenJones84: @mehdirhasan Cheers Mehdi
For this desperate article:
"Another way. And yet Labour do have the outlines of an alternative. When Ed Balls stood for the Labour leadership, he launched a now-vindicated attack on austerity. His Bloomberg speech is a founding document of British neo-Keynesianism. He accepted he was taking on a “consensus”: just as in the 1930s, collective insanity is still insanity. He warned austerity would be “counterproductive”, “tipping us back into recession”."
Ed Balls enforced austerity massively under the Brown government. His speech was dire and lies.
"Imagine if Clement Attlee’s government “had decided that the first priority was to reduce the debts built up in the war”, he asked us: there would be no NHS, no rebuilt railways and housing, no welfare state. If only he had stuck unrelentingly to this script."
It was a weak speech.
"As Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman put it, the Tories’ cynical comparison between national debt and household debt makes no sense because “our debt is mostly money we owe to each other... Your spending is my income, and my spending is your income.” I become poorer because you spend less; you become poorer because I’m spending less, and so the debt grows. The Tories’ sneers about the borrowing habits of their opponents don’t even make sense: they are borrowing, not as a temporary price to lift us out of economic disaster, but as the cost of failed policies.
Last year – before the full calamity of Tory austerity had been exposed – YouGov found 45 per cent of us believed the Government should switch to focusing on growth “even if this means the deficit stays longer or gets worse”. But Osborne’s failure must not lead to yet another bout of austerity under Labour."
Paul Krugman is a vicious centrist, his approach is vile. This is what he is cited for.
"And there’s a clear moral to this story: When the private sector is frantically trying to pay down debt, the public sector should do the opposite, spending when the private sector can’t or won’t. By all means, let’s balance our budget once the economy has recovered — but not now. The boom, not the slump, is the right time for austerity."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/opinion/krugman-the-austerity-agenda.html
Impose austerity during a boom. Lunacy. It's blaming governments for not cutting during the long (wage-stagnant) boom.
Osbourne's failure will lead to precisely another bout of austerity under Labour.
This part is just mad: "The Tories’ sneers about the borrowing habits of their opponents don’t even make sense: they are borrowing, not as a temporary price to lift us out of economic disaster, but as the cost of failed policies."
Labour borrowing (and austerity) is better than Conservative borrowing because apparently Labour doesn't have failed policies.
"Pushing growth through house-building, an industrial strategy and genuinely publicly run banks; hiking taxes on the wealthy – who, contrary to myth, studies show do not flee as a result; reducing welfare spending by no longer subsidising private landlords and badly paying bosses: here can be the basis of Labour’s alternative. Osbornomics is sunk – and, if Cameron et al are ignominiously thrown on to the scrapheap of history in 2015, it must not be resuscitated."
Taking each in turn:
House-building.
Labour is enforcing the rundown in construction in local government. Camden Council's Labour leader says "lack of available housing in Camden will mean that more people will soon have to consider moving from the borough and in some cases London entirely.” to explain their plans to shift around 800 unemployed household council tenants to councils north.
Industrial strategy. Jones doesn't explain it, Labour doesn't explain it. It's just code for import controls and soft economic nationalism, or redistribution within working class close a plant in Berkshire, offer tax breaks in Monmouthshire and industrial relocation described as 'British jobs for British workers'.
Genuinely publicly run banks.
Labour had their chance to do this in 2008-2010 and failed spectacularly to the extent that the "publicly subsidised" banks are as destructive as the "private" ones.
Subsidising private landlords.
Exactly what Labour intends to carry on doing.
Subsidising badly paying bosses.
What the 'welfare state' under Labour and Conservatives has been doing for forty years.
Hiking taxes on the wealthy – who, contrary to myth, studies show do not flee as a result
They don't flee or attempt to flee simply because their taxes are not hiked very much. When they are properly hiked like in Cuba they do try and flee, or at least send away their money.
The political dimension is interesting. Setting up a new non-Labour party is like losing your mind.
"he suggested I would lead the left-wing “Green and Justice Party” which would benefit from Labour’s collapse: if I was to lose my mind and set up some new party, it would certainly have a catchier name than that."
Here he is desperately giving advice to Labour, please, please don't let what happened to PSOE/PASOK happen to you, do your betrayals and lies more sensibly, more embracing, more cunningly, don'y be so brazen: "In Greece, PASOK unleashed self-defeating austerity; it now languishes on single-figures in the opinion polls. In Spain, the Socialists were booted out in 2011 not because their right-wing opponents won more votes (they barely did), but because their own supporters sat on their hands."
Oh lord....
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I had to google Helen Lewis, and found this
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What events is he speaking at? To who? What's he saying? Working hard doesn't mean anything unless you can say what it's for. You spend post after post slagging off labour, Jones goes around the country saying vote and join labour and you say...what?
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