BBC - Owen Jones

[butchersapron]

As articul8 doesn't want to tell us what the labour party did to the labour Councillors who voted against the cuts:

Anti-cuts councillors

There have been some limited local exceptions, such as the two Southampton Labour councillors who refused to vote with the ruling Labour group to close a leisure centre they had explicitly promised to save at elections a few months earlier. Following their decision to form a rival group on the council, Labour Councillors Against the Cuts, they have been formally expelled from the party.

 

[sihhi]

As articul8 doesn't want to tell us what the labour party did to the labour Councillors who voted against the cuts:

What the Labour would have done to this councillor too, had he not jumped.

I resigned from the Labour Party of Stoke on Trent in revolt against a proposed budget saving of £2 million against staff Terms & Conditions, which will see a large number of middle and lower paid staff having their salary reduced by one level of the pay scale and having their hours reduced also.

Laughably "Councillors Against Cuts does not advocate councillors leave the Labour Group"

 

[Delroy Booth]

I remember hearing, from respectable left-wing Labour people to careerist neo-liberal scum, the argument "if we refuse to pass cuts and set a needs budget then all that will happen is Eric Pickle's will set the budget and take an axe to absolutely everything" so articul8 now you're encouraging people to not pass cuts, and have intimated about councils refusing to set budgets in line with what the govt wants, what answer do you have to this question? Even if all those Labour councillors decided to commit career suicide and a load of Labour councils set a needs budget, how will you deal with Pickles coming in and effectively surcharging the councils?

 

[articul8]

He no longer has power to surcharge individual councillors. It is true there is the power to suspend the elected council and send in his own administrator. But if unions and community are mobilised to resist its not an easy option. In any.case even short of fulll illegal budget they could resist eg by refusing to evict.

 

[Delroy Booth]

He no longer has power to surcharge individual councillors. It is true there is the power to suspend the elected council and send in his own administrator. But if unions and community are mobilised to resist its not an easy option. In any.case even short of fulll illegal budget they could resist eg by refusing to evict.

Perhaps you should set out this strategy in detail for us before actually getting people to vote against cuts. And it's just funny how whenever I've heard people from TUSC make the exact same comments they get summarily dismissed for being ultra-left Millie madness.

 

[sihhi]

I remember hearing, from respectable left-wing Labour people to careerist neo-liberal scum, the argument "if we refuse to pass cuts and set a needs budget then all that will happen is Eric Pickle's will set the budget and take an axe to absolutely everything" so articul8 now you're encouraging people to not pass cuts, and have intimated about councils refusing to set budgets in line with what the govt wants, what answer do you have to this question? Even if all those Labour councillors decided to commit career suicide and a load of Labour councils set a needs budget, how will you deal with Pickles coming in and effectively surcharging the councils?

Bizarre post.

Labour councils are not going to set needs budgets. Even if needs budgets were somehow set, the people doing them would long have been removed from the Labour Party.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Bizarre post.

Labour councils are not going to set needs budgets. Even if needs budgets were somehow set, the people doing them would long have been removed from the Labour Party.

I know Labour councils aren't going to set needs budgets, or do much at all beyond a bit of insincere posturing, to stop the cuts, I'm askng Articul8 to explain to me how his vision of Labour councillors defying govt cuts will end up working out in practice - especially considering I've heard first hand Labour people dismiss proposals similar to the ones he's making as lunatic and impossible to carry out.

At the end of the day the Labour party believe in making cuts as policy. If you don't like making cuts then the first thing you ought to do is leave a political party that intrinsically does.

 

[sihhi]

I know Labour councils aren't going to set needs budgets, or do much at all beyond a bit of insincere posturing, to stop the cuts, I'm askng Articul8 to explain to me how his vision of Labour councillors defying will end up working out in practice - especially considering I've heard first hand Labour people dismiss proposals similar to the ones he's making as lunatic and impossible to carry out.

At the end of the day the Labour party believe in making cuts as policy. If you don't like making cuts then the first thing you ought to do is leave a political party that intrinsically does.

From a left-nationalist social democratic point of view proposals not to cut (or at least to rapidly revive profitability) are lunatic, and they are impossible to carry out under the current constitutional set-up. Precisely why it's essential to state that no cuts of any description is a bedrock minimum - to make Bennism eat itself and disrupt the established centre-local order.

 

[smokedout]

I can do defend being in Labour.

The Labour Councillors took the decision that they will not facilitate the trashing of their communities, by signing the founding statement of Councillors Against the Cuts, an umbrella organisation that unites elected representatives who refuse to do the Tories dirty work for them by setting local budgets that will cut jobs and services for working people. These are services that the Cabinet of Millionaires in London do not understand, and do not want to understand. Children’s Services protect the lives of our most vulnerable and are in the cross hairs of the Tory executioners of local help, delivered by local people for their fellow citizens.

The Labour Group leaders, instead of praising the initiative of their progressive comrades and following their lead in speaking out, have instead convened a Kangaroo Court to meeting on Monday evening. This consists of the Leadership carpeting Gary and Gill, then expecting their fellow Labour Councillors to meet out some kind of summary justice in the name of so-called democracy.

http://hull-lrc.webnode.com/news/st...e-labour-leaderships-kangaroo-court-tactics-/

 

[articul8]

Well done the Hull LRC comrades - I hope very much they can see off the local whips throwing their weight around. Given Hull has this dickhead for a Labour MP it's no surprise they've been told to crack down:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/03/alan-johnson-ed-miliband-union

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Well done the Hull LRC comrades - I hope very much they can see off the local whips throwing their weight around. Given Hull has this dickhead for a Labour MP it's no surprise they've been told to crack down:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/03/alan-johnson-ed-miliband-union

Thought the LRC approved of MP's with a working class & trade union background and wanted more of them?

 

[articul8]

Thought the LRC approved of MP's with a working class & trade union background and wanted more of them?

In general, yes, but not just on any political basis - not right wing bureaucrats who are happy to soil their own bed

 

[butchersapron]

Well done the Hull LRC comrades - I hope very much they can see off the local whips throwing their weight around. Given Hull has this dickhead for a Labour MP it's no surprise they've been told to crack down:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/03/alan-johnson-ed-miliband-union

So the first group to do what you said your party should do were expelled by the party, the second group are about to be expelled by the party. Ever thought of taking up chess?

 

[articul8]

it's not certain that this is what will happen just yet - they think they can keep a lid on opposition by picking off one or two groups at this stage - but it won't be contained indefinitely. Of course we should stand by the expelled Southampton councillors and demand their reinstatement.

 

[sihhi]

it's not certain that this is what will happen just yet - they think they can keep a lid on opposition by picking off one or two groups at this stage - but it won't be contained indefinitely. Of course we should stand by the expelled Southampton councillors and demand their reinstatement.

Reinstatement - why now? Shouldn't the Labour Left let these people stay out for 5 years (like Ken Livingstone - and a handful of members who signed his nomination papers were expelled in 2000, but allowed back on appeal in 2004).
Their being stuck out of the party would prove to the party membership and potential members that the Labour right were vile creatures - hence accelerate the process of change in five years' time by which point the Labour right could fracture and splinter off and a reunited Leftist Labour party could emerge.
That's what you want isn't it, you do want the Labour right to leave the party, don't you?

 

[Delroy Booth]

So the first group to do what you said your party should do were expelled by the party, the second group are about to be expelled by the party. Ever thought of taking up chess?

Grandmaster articul8 in action

 

[sihhi]

Grandmaster articul8 in action

That's probably a fairly accurate metaphorical vision of a Labour Left-Posadist discussion on strategy within the Labour Party.

Posadists:

The election of Dilma Roussef in Brazil by 56% proves that the world balance of forces continues to be profoundly anti-imperialist. The continuation of world convoys and flotillas bound for Gaza, many from Britain, says the same thing. The trip of Ahmadinejad to South Lebanon on the invitation of Hezbolah and the Lebanese government shows the courage, the audacity and comprehension of the populations most exposed to the war preparations of imperialism. The position of Israel and its settlements gives an image of the impasse and impotence of world imperialism. The latter has few options but all-out war, partly against its own allies, in conditions where it is being beaten, every day a little more.

Revolutionarize Labour

The left Labour comrades recognise much of this, but they are paralysed by a mystified loyalty to the Labour Party. But this apparent loyalty is not devoid of loyalty to the capitalist system itself, its parliament, its financial and monarchist structures, the trappings of State power (like the House of Lords), the privileges, the respectability and the wealth, etc.

The violence capitalist class vengeance against the 2½ millions already unemployed - and the two millions that they are making now unemployed - constitutes an act of war. An act of civil war, well underlined by the threat to sack the entire FBU workforce in London, the running over of 3 FBU pickets and the confiscation of some of their fire-engines.

But the Trade Union and Labour Party bureaucracy is the victim of the cuts too. Some of its leaders will come over to the workers side, but their patronage is no longer required. Ed Milliband, who has no idea about this, is not going to stay long as Labour leader. The comrades of the Labour Party have the opportunity to bring the force of the mobilised public into the Labour Party, to create in it anti-cuts and socialist tendencies.

http://quatrieme-internationale-pos...e-labour-party&catid=18:great-britain&lang=en

Labour Left:

Voters reject coalition cuts policies. Time for Labour’s alternative

5th May 2012

On 3 May, voters across England, Wales and Scotland firmly rejected the austerity policies of the coalition government. Hundreds of Conservative and Liberal Democrat councillors were booted out of office, with large swings against the governing parties.

Labour made substantial gains in every part of the UK: Scotland, Wales and in the North, Midlands and South of England. A legion of new councillors (over 800) will soon be entering town halls, many of whom will serve in the 32 newly elected Labour councils.

These were very positive results for Labour. But the very low turnout - and experiences of Labour activists on the doorstep - clearly reflect that although people reject the coalition, there is no mass enthusiasm for Labour. Labour gained only 38% of the vote. This should act as a wake-up call to the Labour leadership that it needs to be as firm in speaking up for 99% as the Tories are in supporting the 1%. People just don’t yet feel that Labour is solidly on their side - because it’s not.

This new legion of Labour councillors has a role to play in this. As LRC Chair John McDonnell MP said:

“These elections must mark the first awakenings of Labour’s leadership to the possibilities in front of them. The electorate still feels like saying ‘a plague on all your houses’, but there are opportunities here.
“There is a responsibility upon Labour councillors to become centres of resistance in their communities; to mobilise and organise against the cuts in their communities.”

Who else likes the phrase "Revolutionarize Labour"?

 

[smokedout]

interesting titbit, Jones' bloke went to eton

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/love-reigns-over-the-great-class-divide-8480244.html

 

[BigTom]

Who else likes the phrase "Revolutionarize Labour"?

Definitely taking this slogan for a PD image. Need to post this so I remember. I have an idea as to the way we can "revolutionarize labour". It involves a wall

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

interesting titbit, Jones' bloke went to eton

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/love-reigns-over-the-great-class-divide-8480244.html

What a pleasant and well written article that makes several social and political points so well

 

[Delroy Booth]

interesting titbit, Jones' bloke went to eton

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/love-reigns-over-the-great-class-divide-8480244.html

Not that interesting to me I have to say.

 

[smokedout]

course not, says nothing at all about the circles he moves in

(ive never met anyone who went to eton)

 

[Delroy Booth]

I couldn't give a flying fuck about where his boyfriend went to school, it's absolutely none of my business, and using it as a stick to beat him with puts on you on the exact same level as the Evening Standard.

 

[smokedout]

im not using it as a stick to beat him with, just saying it all helps paint a picture of who these people are thats all

 

[sihhi]

course not, says nothing at all about the circles he moves in

(ive never met anyone who went to eton)

It would hardly be a surprise that his circles include (probably) the media world, given that he is a major columnist on the Independent, a major mass media publication. People can have more than one circle.

This line takes the biscuit: "But it seems Nick Clegg isn’t the only closet fan of public school as Oxford-educated Jones reaches across the class divide."

It implicitly equates Clegg (announcing he is actively looking for a private school for his children) with Owen Jones as a "closet fan of public school" - some kind of typo there. Jones opposes private schooling and has no children, Clegg supports its existence in general and in practice for his own children.

 

[Delroy Booth]

im not using it as a stick to beat him with, just saying it all helps paint a picture of who these people are thats all

It paints a pretty vivid picutre of the people who work at the Evening Standard, not Owen Jones.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

It would hardly be a surprise that his circles include (probably) the media world, given that he is a major columnist on the Independent, a major mass media publication. People can have more than one circle.

This line takes the biscuit: "But it seems Nick Clegg isn’t the only closet fan of public school as Oxford-educated Jones reaches across the class divide."

It implicitly equates Clegg (announcing he is actively looking for a private school for his children) with Owen Jones as a "closet fan of public school" - some kind of typo there. Jones opposes private schooling and has no children, Clegg supports its existence in general and in practice for his own children.

Good opportunity to shoehorn the word closest though into an article already dripping with gooey homophobia.

It is not surprising to me that Owen mixes in circles which include people from Eton, not just because of his work in the media but if he does frequent some bars and clubs in the gay scene in London; they are generally quite mixed in terms of class, more so possibly than straight bars and clubs.

 

[smokedout]

It paints a pretty vivid picutre of the people who work at the Evening Standard, not Owen Jones.

i should probably point out i'm not endorsing the tone or the conclusions of that piece, its just where i happened to find it

 

[mrs quoad]

Luke Bozier ‏@LukeBozier
@OwenJones84 I think we should have lunch.

A tempting offer right there, I'd wager.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Owen Jones


Chuffed to win Young Writer of the Year at the Political Book of the Year Awards. Given the £3,000 prize is donated by Lord Ashcroft, I'm giving half to Lisa Forbes - a brilliant principled working-class women standing against right-wing Tory caricature MP Stewart Jackson in Peterborough. Ashcroft money well spent. The other half to Disabled People Against The Cuts, fighting for disabled people getting a kicking by the Tories.