BBC - Owen Jones

[redsquirrel]

FFS - I'm not saying that. I'm saying don't slag off people that are fighting that anti-austerity agenda from inside the party

Why when they are supporting a pro-austerity agenda? They can make all the anti-austerity talk they like if they are giving money and support to the Labour Party then they are pro-austerity.

 

[Random]

How can Nellist quote an average result of 7%? Is this based on a very small number of elections, including some good SP results that bump up the average? When TUSC stand nationally they seem to get less than 2%

 

[Pickman's model]

How can Nellist quote an average result of 7%? Is this based on a very small number of elections, including some good SP results that bump up the average? When TUSC stand nationally they seem to get less than 2%

He's a graduate of the trotskyite school of falsification

 

[Random]

He's a graduate of the trotskyite school of falsification

2010 General Election
TUSC/STUSC had announced the following list of parliamentary candidates for the 2010 general election, including ten in Scotland.[16] They received a total of 15,573 votes, or 0.1% of the popular vote. TUSC's average vote nationwide was around 371 (1.0%), no deposits were returned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Unionist_and_Socialist_Coalition#Candidates_and_results

All of this suggests that, instead of TUSC getting only 7% and then hoping for more with more candidates, they ONLY got as high as 7% because of their small number of candidates, and any attempt to run 400 will see results once again in the 1% range.

Which, if true, means that Nellist is trying to give people a false impression of the TUSC's situation

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought that's what I said

 

[brogdale]

How can Nellist quote an average result of 7%? Is this based on a very small number of elections, including some good SP results that bump up the average? When TUSC stand nationally they seem to get less than 2%

He did actually state local election results in his letter....tbf.
http://www.tusc.org.uk/pdfs/2012/TUSC_Results_Report.pdf

 

[Random]

He did actually state local election results in his letter....tbf.
http://www.tusc.org.uk/pdfs/2012/TUSC_Results_Report.pdf

I'm not saying that result of 7 % is factually inaccurate. I'm saying he's being misleading by saying "Yes, the average of our results, where we stood in a small number of council elections in 2011 and 2012, is only 7 per cent. This May, however, we hope to stand 400 candidates." and implying this big effort with the 400 candidates will be better than "only" 7 %.

 

[brogdale]

I'm not saying that result of 7 % is factually inaccurate. I'm saying he's being misleading by saying "Yes, the average of our results, where we stood in a small number of council elections in 2011 and 2012, is only 7 per cent. This May, however, we hope to stand 400 candidates." and implying this big effort with the 400 candidates will be better than "only" 7 %.

Politician.

 

[cesare]

Fighting talk

 

[Random]

Fighting talk

I'm sure brogdale is talking about Nellist, not me.

 

[cesare]

I'm sure brogdale is talking about Nellist, not me.

 

[brogdale]

 

[Delroy Booth]

Tim Montgomerie tries his hand at dystopian sci-fi in this little masterpiece.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/t...in-has-voted-to-leave-the-european-union.html

This caught my eye.

Labour soon became a very unpopular government. Like Francois Hollande in 2012, Ed Miliband had campaigned for office on an anti-austerity message but had had to U-turn once in office. The Tory/LibDem Coalition had eliminated half of the deficit it had inherited and international investors were demanding that there could be no deviation from the deficit reduction path. New taxes on richer Britons could not produce enough revenue to stabilise Britain’s public finances. New taxes were therefore introduced on National Insurance by the Chancellor, Ed Balls. He also enacted cuts in the aid, school building and pension budgets. The unions and green campaigners felt particularly betrayed. Throughout 2015 and 2016 there had been angry demonstrations throughout the country. The main beneficiary was the new Green and Justice Party, which under the leadership of Owen Jones, promised new taxes on land, property and an end to the European capitalist model. The GJP started to score 15% in some opinion polls. Four Labour MPs from the party’s Left joined with Caroline Lucas to ensure it had a significant voice in parliament.

Oh my! Seems like Tim Montgomerie has a higher opinion of what a potential new Left party might poll post-2015. 15%!? No chance. Now, is he using the spectre of a new left party to scare the UKIP'ers into voting Tory? Or has he genuinely lost his mind?

 

[nino_savatte]

Tim Montgomerie tries his hand at dystopian sci-fi in this little masterpiece.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/t...in-has-voted-to-leave-the-european-union.html

This caught my eye.



Oh my! Seems like Tim Montgomerie has a higher opinion of what a potential new Left party might poll post-2015. 15%!? No chance. Now, is he using the spectre of a new left party to scare the UKIP'ers into voting Tory? Or has he genuinely lost his mind?

Knowing that God-bothering waste of space, I'd say the latter.

 

[Firky]

I wonder if Owen Jones had this with him when he went to Ashington:

I asked him but alas "You are not authorized to look up related results for that Tweet." was my answer.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I'm not saying that result of 7 % is factually inaccurate. I'm saying he's being misleading by saying "Yes, the average of our results, where we stood in a small number of council elections in 2011 and 2012, is only 7 per cent. This May, however, we hope to stand 400 candidates." and implying this big effort with the 400 candidates will be better than "only" 7 %.

Good spot Random.

Is there a detailed analysis anywhere of where TUSC is going from the SP/RMT? Is there any sober analysis of their strategy and results to date?

The SP website has nothing more than the "62 votes is an encouraging start" type of stuff.

 

[sihhi]

Good spot Random.

Is there a detailed analysis anywhere of where TUSC is going from the SP/RMT? Is there any sober analysis of their strategy and results to date?

The SP website has nothing more than the "62 votes is an encouraging start" type of stuff.

Come on everyone knows what's going on here - every single deposit drained away in the general election in 2010. In the letter Nellist chose not to include that fact - the well below 5% in each of the constituencies were TUSC stood - ignoring 2010, when it was clear that the SP planned TUSC in 2009 knowing that 2010 would have to be an election year and they wanted a better name than No2EU as in the Euros in 2009.
Of the 2010 general election battles, only in 8 elections in England and 2 in Scotland, none in Wales was a result above 1.0% scored. In the overwhelming majority of cases the vote was significantly below that.

Why? Because if Owen Jones counter-responded he would say 'in only 10 constituencies across the country can you lot get more than 1%, Labour are on course to win a fairly thumping majority of around 80'.

Nellist also didn't choose to compare the results with the Socialist Alliance - a former version of what Owen Jones and him are talking about.

 

[sihhi]

This is one of Owen Jones's articles

It's as close as you're gonna get him admitting he stuck the word 'Chavs' in massive capitals on his book so it would get middle-class attention.

 

[articul8]

Come on everyone knows what's going on here - every single deposit drained away in the general election in 2010. In the letter Nellist chose not to include that fact - the well below 5% in each of the constituencies were TUSC stood - ignoring 2010, when it was clear that the SP planned TUSC in 2009 knowing that 2010 would have to be an election year and they wanted a better name than No2EU as in the Euros in 2009.
Of the 2010 general election battles, only in 8 elections in England and 2 in Scotland, none in Wales was a result above 1.0% scored. In the overwhelming majority of cases the vote was significantly below that.

Why? Because if Owen Jones counter-responded he would say 'in only 10 constituencies across the country can you lot get more than 1%, Labour are on course to win a fairly thumping majority of around 80'.

Nellist also didn't choose to compare the results with the Socialist Alliance - a former version of what Owen Jones and him are talking about.

Classic bit of desperate spin here - for the 72 votes TUSC got in Brixton:

New Labour-led Lambeth council called the Brixton Hill byelection for 17 January, minimising scrutiny of their cuts programme with a short election campaign period.
In near zero temperatures, the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition campaign - supported by the local anti-cuts movement - was enormously positive.
Despite the short campaign, the whole ward was leafleted with two-thirds canvassed. Unlike many elections, TUSC received coverage in the local press and 80 people heard our candidate speak at a hustings meeting organised by the Brixton Bugle.
A complication was that the purely propagandist Socialist Party of Great Britain also stood. However the combined TUSC and SPGB vote was 4.2 %.
The campaign raised TUSC's standing. We finished above Ukip, despite that group's continual media coverage.
Crucially the campaign has given TUSC authority to call a meeting to coordinate an anti-cuts challenge across Lambeth in the full council elections in 2014.

How has 72 votes given anyone "authority" to call anything?

 

[butchersapron]

They said the campaign not the votes - and frankly, in the logic of standing candidates as flags around which disparate groups/individuals can rally on a broad front then this is only ever going to be the real immediate aim, not actual election. The view the view that the result is all that counts is a bit shit. The test of whether the claim above proves to be correct (ignoring the bad wording) is practical - it may have developed in the way they hoped (authorised ) after the election or it may not.

 

[articul8]

The result is some measure of how effective (or otherwise) the campaign has been though, surely? (as an aside, the candidate was Steve Nally...!) Respect my authority!

 

[butchersapron]

The result is some measure of how effective (or otherwise) the campaign has been though, surely? (as an aside, the candidate was Steve Nally...!) Respect my authority!

The real campaign is surely after the election.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Was anyone expectig TUSC to win? I wasn't. It's a shit result for TUSC, that even the SP website struggles to spin it, but why revel in the fact a neo-liberal party has won another election in a deprived borough? Will you feel satisfied when this new Labour councillor inevitably starts taking the axe to all the local services articul8? I think the fact there's nothing capable of even putting a dent in Labour electorally from an anti-cuts position is a bad thing myself (although I suspect the glee at being able to revel in defeating your hopelessly outgunned and outmatched left political opponents means more to you than owt else)

 

[butchersapron]

Was anyone expectig TUSC to win? I wasn't. It's a shit result for TUSC, that even the SP website struggles to spin it, but why revel in the fact a neo-liberal party has won another election in a deprived borough? Will you feel satisfied when this new Labour councillor inevitably starts taking the axe to all the local services articul8? I think the fact there's nothing capable of even putting a dent in Labour electorally from an anti-cuts position is a bad thing myself (although I suspect the glee at being able to revel in defeating your hopelessly outgunned and outmatched left political opponents means more to you than owt else)

articul8 doesn't accept that the labour party is a neo-liberal party though.

 

[Delroy Booth]

articul8 doesn't accept that the labour party is a neo-liberal party though.

What, like some people don't accept that the moon exists?

 

[butchersapron]

Only leading elements of the moon exist.

 

[cesare]

Ongoing attempt by the Clangers to alter the moon's orbit.

 

[articul8]

I'm not saying it's a good thing they did so badly. I'm saying don't try to polish a turd.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm saying don't try to polish a turd.

/\ the voice of experience

 

[cesare]

I'm not saying it's a good thing they did so badly. I'm saying don't try to polish a turd.

The LP's a turd.