Basic Income

[Greebo]

DLA is already gone is it not? <<snip>

No. Being phased out and replaced with PIP - which'll do more or less the same thing, but with stricter criteria.

The way that the various income-related benefits interract, particulalry in joint housholds, is byzantine.

Now add on the complex arrangement of exemptions and discounts; if I were to take any work at all, with nothing else in my (and VP's) current situation changing, I would have to earn over £50,000 per year just to break even. This is because most of the exemptions, rebates and discounts would almost immediately go, and I'd have to pay for somebody to do what I'm around to do.

 

[SpookyFrank]

No. Being phased out and replaced with PIP - which'll do more or less the same thing, but with stricter criteria.

Typical. I suppose 'restricting access to DLA' sounds a lot worse than, 'replacing DLA with a new benefit with a more newspeak-sounding name that will be more fit for purpose and blah blah blah lots of bullshit to cover up the fact that what we're actually doing is restricting access to DLA'

 

[Greebo]

Typical. I suppose 'restricting access to DLA' sounds a lot worse than, 'replacing DLA with a new benefit with a more newspeak-sounding name that will be more fit for purpose and blah blah blah lots of bullshit to cover up the fact that what we're actually doing is restricting access to DLA'

 

[SpookyFrank]

Now add on the complex arrangement of exemptions and discounts; if I were to take any work at all, with nothing else in my (and VP's) current situation changing, I would have to earn over £50,000 per year just to break even. This is because most of the exemptions, rebates and discounts would almost immediately go, and I'd have to pay for somebody to do what I'm around to do.

Fear not, soon Universal Credit will be here to make the situation even worse.

 

[Greebo]

Fear not, soon Universal Credit will be here to make the situation even worse.

It already is, in some areas. And the benefits cap is hot on its heels, or will that come first?

Either way, it's bad news.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It already is, in some areas. And the benefits cap is hot on its heels, or will that come first?

Either way, it's bad news.

I thought UC wasn't being implemented for couples or people with dependants yet?

 

[Greebo]

I thought UC wasn't being implemented for couples or people with dependants yet?

You don't get it do you?

You have to start planning for the worst case because with the DWP you can't rely on them not doing something purely because it doesn't bloody well make sense! The same goes for ministers making the decisions which affect benefits.

 

[ska invita]

A Dutch City Will Start Experimenting with Unconditional Basic Income This Summer
http://www.futurism.com/links/view/...-with-unconditional-basic-income-this-summer/

 

[Fez909]

Robots are coming for the brickies

 

[Fez909]

Finnish government commits to Basic Income experiment.

 

[ska invita]

Thought you might like the new Verso Books bag Fez909

 

[butchersapron]

Finnish government commits to Basic Income experiment.

Doesn't sound like that much of a commitment. And if anyone wanted to see how a generic basic income policy can be integrated with welfare to work measures and other neo-liberal crap, well, just keep your eye on this.

 

[butchersapron]

Thought you might like the new Verso Books bag Fez909

Disgusting - charge 25 quid for books that cost you fuck all to produce, give nothing back to the writers, hound people who criticise and then ... pose.

 

[Fez909]

Doesn't sound like that much of a commitment. And if anyone wanted to see how a generic basic income policy can be integrated with welfare to work measures and other neo-liberal crap, well, just keep your eye on this.

If it's a welfare to work model, then it's not a basic income. One of the principles of a basic income is everyone gets it, no matter what.

 

[butchersapron]

If it's a welfare to work model, then it's not a basic income. One of the principles of a basic income is everyone gets it, no matter what.

That's the abstract model yes. Are you only interested in that? Are there no conditions under which it could be utilised by neo-liberalism? We know it's been supported by some leading neo-liberals since kick off don't we? How come? Given whose given this rather wet committment, do you imagine it will the basic income policy of abstract models, or given the recent devlopment of workare and other attacks on the welfare state in finland that it might be something a wee bit different? Given that there already exist conditional basic-income 'benefits' in part of finland.

 

[Fez909]

That's the abstract model yes. Are you only interested in that? Are there no conditions under which it could be utilised by neo-liberalism? We know it's been supported by some leading neo-liberals since kick off don't we? How come? Given whose given this rather wet committment, do you imagine it will the basic income policy of abstract models, or given the recent devlopment of workare and other attacks on the welfare state in finland that it might be something a wee bit different? Given that there already exist conditional basic-income 'benefits' in part of finland.

True, there might be something called a basic income that neo-libs support. But that's no different to the current welfare model, really, or even Universal Credit. There'd be nothing stopping the Tories from renaming UC Basic Income and wouldn't require any laws to change. Doesn't mean it's a basic income.

 

[butchersapron]

True, there might be something called a basic income that neo-libs support. But that's no different to the current welfare model, really, or even Universal Credit. There'd be nothing stopping the Tories from renaming UC Basic Income and wouldn't require any laws to change. Doesn't mean it's a basic income.

Indeed. i think that's exactly where i came in earlier today.

 

[Fez909]

Indeed. i think that's exactly where i came in earlier today.

Fair enough.

I'll do some reading to see if I can find out what they mean when they talk about it in Finland. It was mentioned a fair bit before the election so there should be something written on it, somewhere.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Disgusting - charge 25 quid for books that cost you fuck all to produce, give nothing back to the writers, hound people who criticise and then ... pose.

Back when I was mobile enough to meander round bookshops unaided, I used to make it a point (if I shoplifted at all) to shoplift Verso books (plus a couple of other mainstream publishers). Got my first copy of "The Enemy Within" like that.

 

[ska invita]

Finland considers basic income to reform welfare system
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33977636

 

[J Ed]

The Podemos party in Spain has proposed a basic income of €600 per month for those with no income and a sort of reduced basic income for those who are in work but who do not earn over €900

 

[BigTom]

It's not a basic income then is it? Isn't the point of a basic income that it's paid to everyone regardless of earnings?

 

[J Ed]

It's not a basic income then is it? Isn't the point of a basic income that it's paid to everyone regardless of earnings?

It's what they are calling it.

 

[DotCommunist]

its more decent welfare provision and a form of in work benefit not all that far from tax credits to my mind, although I can see why its useful to sell it under that label of BI.

I don't know the cost of living in spain so am unsure as to just how far 600 euro would go.

 

[J Ed]

.

 

[imposs1904]

Thought you might like the new Verso Books bag Fez909

that's really naff. their intern must do better.

 

[ska invita]

that's really naff. their intern must do better.

its taken from the cover of this book VersoBooks.com

A major new manifesto for a high-tech future free from work
Neoliberalism isn’t working. Austerity is forcing millions into poverty and many more into precarious work, while the left remains trapped in stagnant political practices that offer no respite.

Inventing the Future is a bold new manifest0 for life after capitalism. Against the confused understanding of our high-tech world by both the right and the left, this book claims that the emancipatory and future-oriented possibilities of our society can be reclaimed. Instead of running from a complex future, Nick Srnicek and Alex Williams demand a postcapitalist economy capable of advancing standards, liberating humanity from work and developing technologies that expand our freedoms.

Reviews

• “Nick Srnicek and Alex Williams' project dares to propose a different way of thinking and acting. Given the fizzling of the Occupy moment, a radical rethinking of the anarchic approach is badly needed but just not happening. This book could do a lot of work in getting that rethink going.”
  – Doug Henwood, author of Wall Street
  
  
• “A powerful book: it not only shows us how the postcapitalist world of rapidly improving technology could make us free, but it also shows us how we can organise to get there. This is a must-read.”
  – Paul Mason, author of Postcapitalism: A Guide to Our Future
  
  
• “Srnicek and Williams demonstrate how a sustainable economic future is less a question of means than of imagination. The postcapitalist world they envision is utterly attainable, if we can remember that we have been inventing the economy all along.”
  – Douglas Rushkoff, author of Present Shock: When Everything Happens Now
  
  
• “Inventing the Future is exactly what we need right now. With immense patience and care, it sets out a clear and compelling vision of a postcapitalist society. Equally importantly, it lays out a plausible programme which can take us from 24/7 capitalist immiseration to a world free of work.”
  – Mark Fisher, author of Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative?
  
  
• “A conceptual launch pad for a new socialist imagination…”
  – Mike Davis, author of Planet of Slums
  

 

[imposs1904]

its taken from the cover of this book VersoBooks.com

A major new manifesto for a high-tech future free from work
Neoliberalism isn’t working. Austerity is forcing millions into poverty and many more into precarious work, while the left remains trapped in stagnant political practices that offer no respite.

Inventing the Future is a bold new manifest0 for life after capitalism. Against the confused understanding of our high-tech world by both the right and the left, this book claims that the emancipatory and future-oriented possibilities of our society can be reclaimed. Instead of running from a complex future, Nick Srnicek and Alex Williams demand a postcapitalist economy capable of advancing standards, liberating humanity from work and developing technologies that expand our freedoms.

Reviews

• “Nick Srnicek and Alex Williams' project dares to propose a different way of thinking and acting. Given the fizzling of the Occupy moment, a radical rethinking of the anarchic approach is badly needed but just not happening. This book could do a lot of work in getting that rethink going.”
  – Doug Henwood, author of Wall Street
  
  
• “A powerful book: it not only shows us how the postcapitalist world of rapidly improving technology could make us free, but it also shows us how we can organise to get there. This is a must-read.”
  – Paul Mason, author of Postcapitalism: A Guide to Our Future
  
  
• “Srnicek and Williams demonstrate how a sustainable economic future is less a question of means than of imagination. The postcapitalist world they envision is utterly attainable, if we can remember that we have been inventing the economy all along.”
  – Douglas Rushkoff, author of Present Shock: When Everything Happens Now
  
  
• “Inventing the Future is exactly what we need right now. With immense patience and care, it sets out a clear and compelling vision of a postcapitalist society. Equally importantly, it lays out a plausible programme which can take us from 24/7 capitalist immiseration to a world free of work.”
  – Mark Fisher, author of Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative?
  
  
• “A conceptual launch pad for a new socialist imagination…”
  – Mike Davis, author of Planet of Slums

God, that makes it naffer. My apologies to the Verso intern.

Was there not enough room on the bag (and book) for some gushing blurb from Edward Bellamy?

• " Inventing the Future, the book I'd wish I'd written . . . shit, wait a minute, am I getting royalties from these guys?"

- Edward Bellamy, author of Looking Backward

 

[ska invita]

- Edward Bellamy, author of Looking Backward

Never heard of it, but looks interesting...does it hold up to reading today?

 

[imposs1904]

Never heard of it, but looks interesting...does it hold up to reading today?

It's been a few years since I read it but I remember it being a bit dull, tbh, but, then, I think most utopian type literature is. (I never did finish News From Nowhere.) Had a quick look at its wiki page and I'd known it was popular when it was published, but I didn't know it was the publishing sensation it was when it was originally published.