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Barbie vs Oppenheimer

Barbie or Oppenheimer?

  • Total voters
    97
Agent Sparrow said:
Tbf I read the reviews and gave it careful consideration before taking my 7 and 9 year old - we’re quite open with them and I told them to ask questions afterwards if they needed to. I’m glad the 7 year old wasn’t younger as it wouldn’t have held her attention a year ago but they definitely enjoyed it on a different level to the grown ups. The 9 year old enjoyed the feminist aspect if not getting all of it, including the speech. The innuendo went over their heads and they loved the sillier aspects.

Which is just as well recently because prior to the reviews, the full on advertising campaign was really not clear about it being aimed at an older audience and there would have been absolute scenes if I had gone without them. I can see why a lot of families wouldn’t have twigged in advance that a film based on a childhood toy wasn’t actually for children.



Grease is a PG. I know which of the two I felt more comfortable with them watching.
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Mlle Fire brought Mini Fire, 10 and her friend, 9 to see it. They enjoyed it but Mlle Fire said some of the humour went over their heads. We didn't really read any reviews, I watched a trailer, knew it was 12a and thought it was a kids film with some adult themes. Anyway everyone came out happy and no harm done. I've yet to see it but will.
 
Saw Grease and Close Encounters when they came out, some of the family in the States were shocked that was allowed go see them.

Grease, cos of the innuendo and sauce which went right over my head. Close Encounters because "children are running screaming from the theaters/having nightmares" over there.

The two films instilled a life long love of musicals and aliens, so no harm done there.
 
baldrick said:
It's an adaptation of a biography, which doesn't deal with those issues, rightly or wrongly.

Castigating a film for being consistent with the book it's based on is fucking weird.

And also banging on about this, having neither watched the film or read the book, is bizarre.
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Saying it's not in the book is a cop out. All adaptations are their own piece of work. It's a three hour film with a massive budget, what's not included is a direct conscious decision by the film makers, it's not for lack of time or budget.

We're talking about the military murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, it's beyond the elephant in the room, it is the room. It's ludicrous to omit it and stop the story at the point the mass murder takes place. Also to omit that oppenheimer defends the double bombing to his last day, a pretty crucial detail.

As to banging on about it, what is this forum for if it's not to talk about things critically and in depth? For whatever reason this film has become a cultural event and will be seen by millions of people. What the politics of the film are should be of interest to everyone.
 
ska invita said:
....

As to banging on about it, what is this forum for if it's not to talk about things in depth?
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I'd find it a little jarring to talk in depth about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the bombing of both, area bombing as a strategy and tactic in general, the destruction of civilian infrastructure and deliberate killing of civilians as a policy aim in war, the far East, Burma and Pacific campaigns, nuclear proliferation, MAD, other WMD (CBRN/ NBC) etc etc on a thread about two summer blockbuster films. Especially one where I have, on topic, posted. picture of myself as a life size fashion doll in a Barbie Box (Quite a fetching picture too, if I do say so myself).

Start a thread in P & P. or in the transport one alongside some of our other more war-ie threads if you'd rather.
 
ska invita said:
Saying it's not in the book is a cop out. All adaptations are their own piece of work. It's a three hour film with a massive budget, what's not included is a direct conscious decision by the film makers, it's not for lack of time or budget.

We're talking about the military murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, it's beyond the elephant in the room, it is the room. It's ludicrous to omit it and stop the story at the point the mass murder takes place. Also to omit that oppenheimer defends the double bombing to his last day, a pretty crucial detail.

As to banging on about it, what is this forum for if it's not to talk about things critically and in depth? For whatever reason this film has become a cultural event and will be seen by millions of people. What the politics of the film are should be of interest to everyone.
Click to expand...
Also, if you had actually seen the film you would know that it doesn't stop at the bombings. That's kind of the point of the film. That's the problem you have in construction an argument on a work of art/ piece of entertainment, whilst not having seen the source material and depending on secondary sources.
 
I did have to explain the last joke about gynaecology but that was the only thing they asked about. Again comparing to Grease, it was a more comfortable conversation than having to admit teenagers might have sex because it’s actually quite fun :oops:

Also the Simpsons used to have much more blatant references to sex.

My dad let me watch Monty Python’s Meaning Of Life when I was 8 for some unknown reason. That proper fucked me up for a month. :eek: But I think our parents’ generation were definitely more lax with this sort of thing than ours.
 
rutabowa said:
I've only seen barbie but think I can safely say that they are both triumphs of marketing over content.
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I disagree, having seen both. Whilst the marketing of both was excellent, and the momentum generated by the whole ‘Barbieheimer’ synergy will probably be studied and emulated for years; both films are really good at what they are, and Barbie might ( or might not) turn out to be a new classic.
 
I don’t know about a new classic but Barbie was certainly the film I actually most enjoyed watching with the kids in the cinema this year. The Little Mermaid was also OK but mainly because of the nostalgia.
 
Agent Sparrow said:
Tbf I read the reviews and gave it careful consideration before taking my 7 and 9 year old - we’re quite open with them and I told them to ask questions afterwards if they needed to. I’m glad the 7 year old wasn’t younger as it wouldn’t have held her attention a year ago but they definitely enjoyed it on a different level to the grown ups. The 9 year old enjoyed the feminist aspect if not getting all of it, including the speech. The innuendo went over their heads and they loved the sillier aspects.

Which is just as well recently because prior to the reviews, the full on advertising campaign was really not clear about it being aimed at an older audience and there would have been absolute scenes if I had gone without them. I can see why a lot of families wouldn’t have twigged in advance that a film based on a childhood toy wasn’t actually for children.



Grease is a PG. I know which of the two I felt more comfortable with them watching.
Click to expand...

It's not about what you'd feel comfortable with them watching - - there's nothing in Barbie that would be bad for a young child to see. I almost wonder if the film-makers argued for a 12A when it could have been a U (film-makers do have input into the classification process), to help people realise that, if little kids enjoy it, great, but they're not the target audience.

It has tons of references to politics and philosophy and the only reason a Proust Barbie not selling well could fly over your head is because they also featured the genuine Sugar's-Daddy Barbie and boob growing Skipper so it seemed reasonable.
 
Some interesting articles trying to pin down Christopher's politics

New Statement psychoanalysis him and concludes great British conservative

Independent has gone through his films and broadly concluding big c centrist
www.independent.co.uk

Are Christopher Nolan’s films right-wing? Oppenheimer finally suggests otherwise

The 52-year-old filmmaker’s work has long prompted speculation over his political views, from the supposedly pro-conservative ‘Dark Knight’ to the anti-war messaging of ‘Tenet’. Does his nuclear biopic ‘Oppenheimer’ hold any answers, asks Louis Chilton
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

The LA Review of Books stretches to Victorian imperialist!
lareviewofbooks.org

The Imperialist Anxieties of Christopher Nolan | Los Angeles Review of Books

Andrew Fedorov considers Christopher Nolan’s Victorian sensibility and its elision from Tom Shone’s “The Nolan Variations.”
lareviewofbooks.org lareviewofbooks.org
 
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I finally voted in my own poll - Barbie tomorrow night with the family, Oppenheimer at a later date, probably in a normal cinema though my brother has advised that I need to see it in IMAX as soon as possible
 
I saw Oppenheimer yesterday after walking through a Barbie pink archway of pink balloons which felt a bit strange given the topic of the film I was about to watch.
I'd not read the book but had listened to the excellent episode on the Rest is History Podcast which gave me a lot of the background to his earlier life and the characters in the story.
To me the film was about the moral compass of the man. The film did not really give an answer to this or did it? Oppenheimer's wife relayed the frustrations of why doesn't he fight? What did he really feel?
The end of the film left me feeling very emotional and tearful although again I am not sure why? Was it because I have grown up trying to have a family, bringing up children, all against the back drop of the arms race and the knowledge of what a terrible weapon can do? After a few years of relative peace, here we are again, actually discussing the end of the world. Here we are again, like the two scorpions in the bottle.
These are just my own thoughts, not clever, not with any great knowledge of expertise but just my own thoughts and feelings. However in answer to the original question, I doubt Barbie would have affected my feelings quite as much.
 
Went to watch Barbie just before 8pm yesterday, hoping there'd be no kids there and fucking hell, was I wrong. There were little kids ffs, who wouldn't shut the fuck up for most of the film. Some of them were clearly bored and restless from all the sugar they were given. There was constant talking, bickering, there was crying. It was crap. OH, THEY RAN OUT OF POPCORN!

I wanted to watch it first - before deciding whether or not a 7 year old should watch it and I think it's probably ok - but it talks about death, anxiety, inequality and also the whole not having genitals might raise a few questions... America's speech about the difficulties of being a woman will probably induce some fear & anxiety in some young girls, i.e. the ones paying attention. Maybe that is a bit too much for a child, more than anything else! I don't think I'd want to put my granddaughter through that realisation just yet.

I decided there's no way I'm watching Oppenheimer at the cinema. Will wait and watch at home. I think it'll be very upsetting - being a teen in 80s was very traumatising in that sense, the possibility of nuclear war was so real. That isn't to say that it's not as real now with the Ukraine war, but I think in the 80s the fear was very concentrated and it was everywhere. Now it seems more diluted, you have to pay more attention to feel it.
 
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ska invita said:
We're talking about the military murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, it's beyond the elephant in the room, it is the room. It's ludicrous to omit it and stop the story at the point the mass murder takes place. Also to omit that oppenheimer defends the double bombing to his last day, a pretty crucial detail.
Click to expand...

Not seen it yet but I don't think Oppenheimer would be doing a disservice to its viewers if it assumed they already knew about Hiroshima and Nagasaki
 
girasol said:
Went to watch Barbie just before 8pm yesterday, hoping there'd be no kids there and fucking hell, was I wrong. There were little kids ffs, who wouldn't shut the fuck up for most of the film. Some of them were clearly bored and restless from all the sugar they were given. There was constant talking, bickering, there was crying. It was crap. OH, THEY RAN OUT OF POPCORN!

I wanted to watch it first - before deciding whether or not a 7 year old should watch it and I think it's probably ok - but it talks about death, anxiety, inequality and also the whole not having genitals might raise a few questions... America's speech about the difficulties of being a woman will probably induce some fear & anxiety in some young girls, i.e. the ones paying attention. Maybe that is a bit too much for a child, more than anything else! I don't think I'd want to put my granddaughter through that realisation just yet.

I decided there's no way I'm watching Oppenheimer at the cinema. Will wait and watch at home. I think it'll be very upsetting - being a teen in 80s was very traumatising in that sense, the possibility of nuclear war was so real. That isn't to say that it's not as real now with the Ukraine war, but I think in the 80s the fear was very concentrated and it was everywhere. Now it seems more diluted, you have to pay more attention to feel it.
Click to expand...
My thoughts completely about the growing up in the shadow of a nuclear war. Maybe that is why it affected me so much. Maybe we have all been traumatised and watching Oppenheimer has brought back the feelings we had during our growing up years.
 
girasol said:
America's speech about the difficulties of being a woman will probably induce some fear & anxiety in some young girls, i.e. the ones paying attention. Maybe that is a bit too much for a child, more than anything else! I don't think I'd want to put my granddaughter through that realisation just yet.
Click to expand...

Is this a joke?
 
Far be it from me to tell you what you should expose your children to but I’d have thought those kinds of conversations (the power structure, gender roles & expectations, consumerism) were exactly the types of things you wanna be having with children.
 
Joe Chi Min said:
Far be it from me to tell you what you should expose your children to but I’d have thought those kinds of conversations (the power structure, gender roles & expectations, consumerism) were exactly the types of things you wanna be having with children.
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Young girls find out all about gender roles the first time they're out with their friends aged about 11 and some average adult man sexually harasses them.
Wanting them to have a bit of a childhood first is normal.
 
Thora said:
Young girls find out all about gender roles the first time they're out with their friends aged about 11 and some average adult man sexually harasses them.
Wanting them to have a bit of a childhood first is normal.
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There is nothing in Barbie about apalling and noncey behaviour toward children. It’s mostly about how the world is slanted in favour of men and how that breeds toxic-masculinity.

Again though, I’m not trying to tell you how or how not to raise your daughter.
 
Joe Chi Min said:
There is nothing in Barbie about apalling and noncey behaviour toward children. It’s mostly about how the world is slanted in favour of men and how that breeds toxic-masculinity.

Again though, I’m not trying to tell you how or how not to raise your daughter.
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Barbie is literally sexually harassed and assaulted the first time she leaves Barbieland and goes into the real world. It's almost like this movie was made by a woman :D

The point is there are plenty of things that happen to women in the real world - sexual harassment, their bodies being policed, being held accountable for men's behaviour etc etc - which you might want to shield a 5, 6, 7 year old from while they don't need to know about it.
 
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