Ban political parties?

[littlebabyjesus]

Put it like this: you have 600 odd financially independent MPs; or 600 "professional" salleried MPs who can be bullied into voting the way the leadership wants on pain of loosing their livelihood. They vote through legislation that the elite want regardless. In real terms, the elite wins.

Paying MPs is nice in theory, but it actually concentrates power in the hands of the government.

Some Labour MPs used to be funded by their trade union. It was rough and ready, but dispersed power.

So if I'm not independently wealthy, I should be disqualified from becoming an MP, is that it? That's not representation, it's the domination of the rich over the poor.

 

[Azrael]

So if I'm not independently wealthy, I should be disqualified from becoming an MP, is that it? That's not representation, it's the domination of the rich over the poor.

So you're not disputing that salleried MPs are more easily co-erced?

Who's disqualifying you? MPs funded by a union weren't independently wealthy; they'd acquired sponsorship.

At the very least, the minimum age for MPs should be raised to 30 or so. Perhaps 35. Get some experience of life outside Westminster before you go and tell the population how to live.

 

[trevhagl]

As regards the general political environment: I'm convinced that it is the presence of political parties that is killing democracy in this country. It creates tribalism and substitutes loyalty for thought.

Imagine a democracy with no political parties at all. You would have to make the effort to really understand what your prospective representatives thought about issues. That means far more penetrating questions and understanding of political issues would be necessary before you knew who you would vote for. And it would mean that candidates would really have to make a case why we should vote for them, specifically.

And when those representatives went to the House, they would have to take a stance on an issue based on what they really believed in rather than being told to be pro- or anti- something just because that is the party line.

Ban political parties now. They do nothing but get in the way of democracy.

Good idea.
I could never understand how they could call the UK a democracy when MPs are intimidated into voting a certain way by their own govt.

 

[Dr Jon]

Bhutan is a very authoritarian place, DJ. Also it is very homogeneous culturally. Nothing like that could work here.

Maybe not. That's the problem with democracy - it's a bit like herding cats.

ETA:
Maybe a bit of benevolent authoritarianism is what we need? How else do we keep fuckwits out of decision making?

 

[Azrael]

The edit feature's playing up for me for some reason, so just to add to my reply: we already have domination of the rich over the poor, because the elite can threaten the "poor" MP with deselection and loss of livelihood if they don't toe the party line. Since many MPs aren't qualified to do anything else, this is quite a threat.

 

[Idaho]

It's more that i know your game every time you ask me a question and it's game i'm not interested in playing today. I'm not going to derail the thread beyond that now.

You're like a politician. Never saying anything of any true substance because you are convinced someone will catch you out. A paranoia derived from the fact that all you do yourself is catch people out.

 

[cesare]

Safeguards against that would include the publication of the voting records of each candidate, and in depth analysis of any decisions they have made on the committees they've worked on, provided by an independent central statistical service. If more powers have been devolved to a local level, they will have been involved in some pretty important decisions, and they would not be able to hide from the public record.

A bit like theyworkforyou.com?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A bit like theyworkforyou.com?

Yes, but posted through every door. PPBs could be replaced by broadcasts summarising each candidate's record.

 

[cesare]

Yes, but posted through every door. PPBs could be replaced by broadcasts summarising each candidate's record.

Who would fund the printing and distribution, and how often would it be done? (there's a hell of a lot of voting etc that takes place)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Who would fund the printing and distribution, and how often would it be done? (there's a hell of a lot of voting etc that takes place)

It would be done at general election time. It would be funded by taxes. Voting records can be kept pretty easily.

 

[cesare]

It would be done at general election time. It would be funded by taxes. Voting records can be kept pretty easily.

It would just be a snapshot summary of voting records on just the major issues then.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It would just be a snapshot summary of voting records on just the major issues then.

I would suggest both. The candidates would need to agree to a list of 'headline' votes, and then a more detailed record would be available to voters who wanted to look up a particular issue that's important to them.

 

[butchersapron]

You're like a politician. Never saying anything of any true substance because you are convinced someone will catch you out. A paranoia derived from the fact that all you do yourself is catch people out.

*wags finger at self*

Take it seriously!

 

[obanite]

I would suggest both. The candidates would need to agree to a list of 'headline' votes, and then a more detailed record would be available to voters who wanted to look up a particular issue that's important to them.

Please, please, for the sake of the trees - have a paperless / email option

Most mail that comes through my letterbox is totally unnecessary

 

[littlebabyjesus]

OK, just for you.

Important to have the paper option though – not everyone has internets.

 

[Fedayn]

What alternative would you have as/to a central legislature?

I'm not speaking for BA here but what in what he's written makes it seem that he is opposed to some 'central legislature' per se? His point was not the idea but the social relations in society that produce the sort of 'central legislature' we have at present.

 

[Fedayn]

A better way of ensuring MPs' independence would be abolishing their sallery. Financial independence begets political independence.

And in other words a return to the time when only the rich were in parliament. And only those wealthy enough to be 'financially independent' would be involved in the legislature.....

 

[Louis MacNeice]

And in other words a return to the time when only the rich were in parliament. And only those wealthy enough to be 'financially independent' would be involved in the legislature.....

Perhaps women should be disqualified too; at least until their children have reached a certain age, so that they won't be distracted by the natural callings of their familial obligations.

Forward to the 19th century!

Limit the franchise!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[kabbes]

I think that only Greeks should be allowed to vote.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I think that only Greeks should be allowed to vote.

Surely you mean only adult, male, slave owning Greeks; anything else would be madness.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice