Bailiffs and Police attempt to evict squat near Trafalgar Square

[Treacle Toes]

What is all this, "“We want to make this a safe space for all. We’re not equipped to deal with people who are violent or who have drug or alcohol problems.”", direct quote from the Guardian? It just seems a bit offensive to me. I don't know if it's due to prior problems. But it epitomises everything I hate about safe spaces policies. Safe for everyone, as long as they have no problems.

I mean, good luck to them and everything, I hope they do well, but I think that quote either betrays naivete or prejudice.

I understand your concern however I think the key point made is 'we are not equipped'...I don't think they are saying people are not welcome...I think they are being mature and honest about what they can and can't cope with.

I know some of the people at this occupation. I met them at other protest camps. I have also witnessed violence, abuse and generally dangerous behaviour by people who were also at the camps but whose drug or alcohol use was/is out of control. I also saw people bend over backwards to be open, welcoming, forgiving of those people too. It can only go so far though. Some of these occupations become homes for the people there...having someone around who is out of control and abusive means it is unsafe for others to be there, jeapodises the camp/occupation and leaves that person at risk too.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I'm not sure what the context was where the remarks came up, but tbh I'm perfectly happy with them stating straight out that there are certain things they're not equipped to deal with. They were aware that it was only ever going to be short term anyway.

 

[William of Walworth]

Any protest camp and protest scene veteran who's experienced, will be very aware of the need to be very cautious.

In terms of estabishing a policy on 'don't be over welcoming with out-of-control/off their faces people'

 

[ViolentPanda]

Any protest camp and protest scene veteran who's experienced, will be very aware of the need to be very cautious.

In terms of estabishing a policy on 'don't be over welcoming with out-of-control/off their faces people'

I used to get a bit upset at how much "magical thinking" seemed to go on at protest camps, with people thinking that just because you weren't violent yourself, and were a good person, that everyone who shared your political convictions must be.
We know from Occupy! St Pauls that nothing much has changed in the last 30 years, and that there are still wankers (mostly blokes in my experience) who use camps as opportunities to steal, sexually and/or physically assault and intimidate. Fortunately they're a minority, but unfortunately the wider protesting community doesn't "police" them very well. It's sad, but there will always be selfish cunts, and there will always be wiberals who say "don't report them to the police/give them a kicking/chuck them in the nearest stream, maaan!".

And yes, I'm totally aware that my anti-eejit prejudices are showing!

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Any protest camp and protest scene veteran who's experienced, will be very aware of the need to be very cautious.

In terms of estabishing a policy on 'don't be over welcoming with out-of-control/off their faces people'

Indeed. Many camps/occupations have a no drug/alcohol policy. There are children present.

 

[William of Walworth]

And yes, I'm totally aware that my anti-eejit prejudices are showing!

ViolentPanda -- and mine were too.
My far smaller (?) protest-zone experiences, and dodgy festival experiences too, centred (in annoyance!) much more around getting pissed off with out and out drunks/blaggers/pisstakers.
Not necessarily violent, not necessarily all that much out of control.
Just generally hasslesome and annoying!

 

[William of Walworth]

Indeed. Many camps/occupations have a no drug/alcohol policy. There are children present.

You knows that Mr.Bishie

Travellers/live-in vehicles scene (way back when, around some types of free festivals), got wrecked to fuck by wrongsters in some places ....

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Travellers/live-in vehicles scene (way back when, around some types of free festivals), got wrecked to fuck by wrongsters in some places ....

'wrongsters' to deal with, plus the old fuckin' bill!

 

[Dogsauce]

There was a big row at a squat venue in Leeds some years back, when one guy wasn't allowed in because some of the girls at the place had a problem with some of his previous behaviour. A hippy idealist who didn't even live there was kicking up a right fuss saying the place should be open to everyone, but the people who were squatting the place were within their rights to say no IMO. Guy in question was an old alcoholic, amiable and generally non-threatening, but a bit gropey if really hammered,

The undercover OB who turned up in their best BHS casual slacks were also turned away. No debate about that one!

 

[William of Walworth]

Mr.Bishie : All that, and the wronguns made the bill's job so easy sometimes

 

[SpookyFrank]

I used to get a bit upset at how much "magical thinking" seemed to go on at protest camps, with people thinking that just because you weren't violent yourself, and were a good person, that everyone who shared your political convictions must be.
We know from Occupy! St Pauls that nothing much has changed in the last 30 years, and that there are still wankers (mostly blokes in my experience) who use camps as opportunities to steal, sexually and/or physically assault and intimidate. Fortunately they're a minority, but unfortunately the wider protesting community doesn't "police" them very well. It's sad, but there will always be selfish cunts, and there will always be wiberals who say "don't report them to the police/give them a kicking/chuck them in the nearest stream, maaan!".

And yes, I'm totally aware that my anti-eejit prejudices are showing!

There have been some extremely dodgy people turning up at the various anti-fracking camps and occupations. Because the anti-fracking cause has drawn in lots of people who aren't used to occupied spaces, the wrong 'uns are often given far too much slack; even when there are several people making accusations about them and plenty of evidence of wrongness available on the internet for all to see. And because there are quite a few camps springing up, anyone who does get booted off from one site may well show up at another one before long.

I'm not talking about decent-but-troubled people who sometimes cause problems for others; I'm talking about committed, systematic professional scumbags who know how to manipulate people and exploit their goodwill and know all the best places to do it. Dealing with these people requires a very different approach than dealing with a mostly harmless drunk, and your typical cut-and-paste safe spaces policy doesn't always allow for that.

 

[Citizen66]

The problems faced by al fresco communities of liberal slant. I'd love to live in a squat. I could redirect funds given to greedy cunt landlords directly into the space. Couldn't be arsed with obnoxious pricks or having to up sticks at a moment's notice though.

 

[Kaka Tim]

There was a big row at a squat venue in Leeds some years back, when one guy wasn't allowed in because some of the girls at the place had a problem with some of his previous behaviour. A hippy idealist who didn't even live there was kicking up a right fuss saying the place should be open to everyone, but the people who were squatting the place were within their rights to say no IMO. Guy in question was an old alcoholic, amiable and generally non-threatening, but a bit gropey if really hammered,

The undercover OB who turned up in their best BHS casual slacks were also turned away. No debate about that one!

which squat venue was that? I was probably there.

 

[Dogsauce]

which squat venue was that? I was probably there.

Cardigan Rd, the old folks home opposite the bear pit. Squatted a couple of times by different groups. The hippy lot did it later, with their 'anyone can come in' policy, which is when it got smashed up, bricks through the stained glass etc.

 

[free spirit]

What is all this, "“We want to make this a safe space for all. We’re not equipped to deal with people who are violent or who have drug or alcohol problems.”", direct quote from the Guardian? It just seems a bit offensive to me. I don't know if it's due to prior problems. But it epitomises everything I hate about safe spaces policies. Safe for everyone, as long as they have no problems.

either you need a strong core crew capable of dealing with anything that those off their faces on drink or drugs can throw at you, plus a welfare team to sort them out while they sleep it off, or you need that policy in place to say no to problem drinkers / drug users, or it will rapidly destroy the space for everyone else and the thing will fall apart.

tbh even if you have those things in place, unless you're setting out to create a safe space for problem drinkers and drug users, then it's going to use up so much of your group's energy just trying to deal with this 24/7 that it's going to get massively in the way of what else you're trying to do.

This is where the tranquility team concept came from with dissent, which went on into the climate camps. With dissent we had 2 trusted people on rotation on 6 hour shifts 24 hours a day from each of the main groups involved forming the tranquility team, plus a round the clock welfare team, so in total it must have taken serious effort from around 80-100 people to keep on top of things without having a complete no drugs, no alcohol policy in place. Mostly what the tranquility team actually did was to face off with the coppers FIT teams nose to nose at various points around the perimeter camp for the entire 6 hour shift, but if anyone did kick off then a dozen people from all the groups involved in the camp could be there in a couple of minutes to sort the situation out (de-escalate it would be the jargon used).

The most notable person who did kick off properly that time was unsurprisingly an undercover copper (as an aside).

 

[SpookyFrank]

Couldn't be arsed with obnoxious pricks or having to up sticks at a moment's notice though.

Them's the breaks I'm afraid. It is possible to keep twats from moving into your squat but it requires constant vigilance and a united front from all the occupants.

On the flipside, I was once able to move into a lovely squat with people I'd never met before just because they had one spare room left and were desperately looking for a reason not to let the local drugs bore/professional liability move into it.

 

[tufty79]

More eviction trouble:

"CALL OUT - Westminster Council are attempting to evict the Street Kitchen, they gave us an hour notice not long ago. Can as many people as possible come down to 2a Charing Cross Road to fight the second eviction. Thanks."

 

[shaman75]

Westminster Council have been down to the 'homeless kitchen' thing they've got going on opposite the ex-squat and they aren't too happy about all this stuff being handed out and cluttering up the pavement, so they're coming back at 5pm-ish to evict them from the pavement. Love Activists have put out a call for support.

They went to court yesterday about the original eviction too, but it was adjorned until February. After which, the Police came to take back the barricades they'd left to keep the activists erm... barriered in, which the activists had used as makeshift tables to store and hand out clothes and food.

 

[shaman75]

Or what tufty79 just said

 

[Citizen66]

Might swing by there on way home from work.

 

[shaman75]

They've suggested Westminster are getting a bit worried about that big wanky ticketed firework display occurring down the road tomorrow evening at around midnight.

 

[shaman75]

Sounds like police and council are already hanging around plotting something

 

[tufty79]

The group're asking for people to come down now as the council and police are planning to 'attack' in half an hour

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Would be an odd time to do anything - the area is packed with tourists. (I went past a few minutes ago, there were a total of two coppers.)

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Nah, they're all still there. It's not like the council and the cops are going to give them a nice neat time tbh.

 

[Citizen66]

Which end of c-cross rd is it?

 

[tufty79]

Traf square/national portrait gallery end.

 

[Citizen66]

Cheers.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Which end of c-cross rd is it?

The south end. The "camp" is on the pavement outside the national portrait gallery and the building is opposite them across the road on the corner.

 

[tufty79]

Pass on love and luck from here pls *resisting megabus temptation*
(this probably sounds stupid, but the whole thing's sort of fixing my activistfear)